Proposed state-of-the-art Kirtland ve...

Proposed state-of-the-art Kirtland veterans clinic could provid...

There are 84 comments on the Farmington Daily Times story from Mar 13, 2010, titled Proposed state-of-the-art Kirtland veterans clinic could provid.... In it, Farmington Daily Times reports that:

A proposed veterans complex in Kirtland centered around a new hospital, backed by a wealthy entrepreneur and costing an estimated $3.3 billion promises to bring state-of-the-art medicine and other benefits to veterans, as well as 8,000 jobs to the local economy.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Farmington Daily Times.

resident swimmin in shit

Albuquerque, NM

#41 Mar 14, 2010
resident swimmin in shit wrote:
I think the whole idea sounds great!But what about a sewer system first? If Bob Willis wants to help out the county then I suggest he start with a sewer line. I find it hard to believe that there will be a "state of the art" health care facility with 8000 employees and patients with nothing but a septic tank to catch it all. This stinks about as much as my neighborhood.
I agree with the resident that's swimmin. I am so happy to hear about, and read all the articles about this new sewer system. I do hope that our veterans are able to be taken care of closer to home. I think this county NEEDS the economic boost and security of employment; however, is there any talk about this great sewer line (the one that's suppose to prevent the catastrophic sewage overflow into the San Juan river) coming this down this way, south of Hwy. 64? Inquiring minds really want to know. Hats off to Bob Willis and his wonderful financial situation. it's so great that he shares his wealth, and donates land for this "state-of-the-art" facility for our fine men and women who fought for this country. I think it's a great idea for the county and the job situation. Just curious about the sewer line. Is the "Highway 64 Sewer Line Project" approved yet for these fine vets that fought for our country? Or, will they continue to swim also?
Fact checker

Rio Rancho, NM

#42 Mar 14, 2010
I'll be calling our elected representatives and the VA today to find out whether or not this is just another pie-in-the-sky scheme to separate us from our money.

In the meantime I'll NOT be eating at Fudruckers. Apparently Mr. Willis has all the moeny he needs...
well

Rio Rancho, NM

#43 Mar 14, 2010
Fact checker wrote:
I'll be calling our elected representatives and the VA today to find out whether or not this is just another pie-in-the-sky scheme to separate us from our money.
In the meantime I'll NOT be eating at Fudruckers. Apparently Mr. Willis has all the moeny he needs...
No problem. I plan to eat there and celebrate this plan. Happy to take your place.
Besides, silly, they have good hamburgers. And it's not Mr. Willis who gets the $2 tip, it's that high school kid who needs every penny of chump change. So who you really hurt'n with your big threat not to eat there?
This project could do absolute wonders for veterans for many miles around, for those who would be sent here for special services, and for all of us because of the spinoff things that would come from it. No doubt, a sewer line too.
Get real folks. The VA is going to add new services not because they're trying to burn your tax money, but because if you read the numbers in this article and do more homework than that, you'd know we're pitiful in what we provide them now. Just ask the guys that have to drive to albuquerqe now. Many of them can't. So, no treatment.
You're darn straight I hope this pie in the sky is even a third as promised. I'll take it!!
My Two Cents Worth

Albuquerque, NM

#44 Mar 15, 2010
Suppose Mr. Willis donates the land, drums up the support from the local government and they were able to find the tax dollars to build, say, a 20-bed hospital/clinic for Vets? Much more realistic on almost any level and employing many dozens of medical and support people after it's built.

Would the VA accept to run a facility of that size? If they won't, they why take a chance on a facility that is perhaps 10-times that size and costs hundreds of times more?

On the bright side, a VA super-hospital facility in Kirtland would only be a short shuttle-bus trip to the new casino purposed in Upper Fruitland!
Otis

Albuquerque, NM

#45 Mar 15, 2010
My Two Cents Worth wrote:
Suppose Mr. Willis donates the land, drums up the support from the local government and they were able to find the tax dollars to build, say, a 20-bed hospital/clinic for Vets? Much more realistic on almost any level and employing many dozens of medical and support people after it's built.
Would the VA accept to run a facility of that size? If they won't, they why take a chance on a facility that is perhaps 10-times that size and costs hundreds of times more?
On the bright side, a VA super-hospital facility in Kirtland would only be a short shuttle-bus trip to the new casino purposed in Upper Fruitland!
No. Can't you folks figure this out? Would you expect the Air Force to buy a plane from some guy who had never been involved in aviation and decided it would be a good "idee" to build one with industrial revenue bonds and hope the Air Force would buy it? Building a 20 bed hospital is like hauling a lump of coal in a 220ton coal haul vehicle at the mines. A VA hospital these days has to be built to serve the largest population possible to be efficient. That would be at least 250beds. More likely it would be 500 beds. Would you build a restaurant to serve 10 people? I can't believe this silly story even has the legs it seems to have at this point. There isn't anything substantial to back up this fairy tale. Anybody bother to call the VA yet? These guys don't have the background, finances, ability, resources or experience to even get this idea on paper, let alone in front of a bonding authority. So they show up in GooberVille to try and hose the local yokels who are desparate for jobs and help for the local veterans. The idea that any responsible attorney would represent such a con job is nauseating. In addition to the VA and Harry Teagues office the question needs to be presented to the judicial standards board in Santa Fe once the scam is exposed fully.
Otis

Albuquerque, NM

#46 Mar 15, 2010
Idiot wrote:
<quoted text> You are as dumb as a box of sinkers. Read the article. It is about much more than a hospital construction. You are suffering from anal-cranial inversion. Your depth of knowledge of construction costs is about the thickness of a sheet of paper.
Right. Here is what Risley and Willis are saying as quoted in the article:

" A hospital constructed by the VA would cost an estimated $9 billion, Risley said. If it finds the facility satisfactory, the VA would then lease the property."

Here is a link to the most recent costs of a real hosptial and the costs. Note the difference in what Mssrs. Risley and Willis are claiming for construction costs and what it really costs? R&W are claiming 9 BILLION in costs for a hospital that can be built for about $380 MILLION. Which idiot in the VA do you think will be signing off on a hospital that costs about 11 times as much to build as any other like facility?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/realestate/...

The New Mexico Hospital Association will be on this like stink on a stick. Risley and
Willis think they can blow these numbers by the County Commission without anyone noticing the discrepancy of $8.5 BILLION in estimated cost to build a hospital. I can assure you one of the first e-mails that the association executive director will be reading this morning will be about this idiocy. I can't wait to hear what the NMHA has to say about these numbers and the idea that the SJ County Commission even gave them a hearing. Let alone what the new CEO of SJRMC will be saying, if he says anything. I'd be willing to be these two jokers couldn't prove that $50 has been spent on the project, let alone the claimed $18 million. They need to be tarred, feathered and run out of the county on a rail for trying to pull such a scam. Veterans don't appreciate being pawns for the enrichment of a couple of grifters.
Cooter

Albuquerque, NM

#47 Mar 15, 2010
If it sounds too good to be true?---- The reporters for the Daily Times and their editors are a bunch of rubes. Beware of flimflam men.
Otis

Albuquerque, NM

#48 Mar 15, 2010
Fact checker wrote:
I'll be calling our elected representatives and the VA today to find out whether or not this is just another pie-in-the-sky scheme to separate us from our money.
In the meantime I'll NOT be eating at Fudruckers. Apparently Mr. Willis has all the moeny he needs...
The nation's leading healthcare magazine http://www.modernhealthcare.com/ will also be notified. And you can call the new mexico hospital association and when they stop laughing their behinds off you can ask them about the project. I'm pretty sure this project will be DOA by noon after a little checking and input from the local hospital CEO and medical staff. Bring on the tar and feathers.
Otis

Albuquerque, NM

#50 Mar 15, 2010
sheez wrote:
Bobby Willis is a CONMAN! My favorit story he tells is that he makes most of his money from ROLEX. Can you believe that ROLEX pays him a % of of every ROLEX sold on this side the Mississippi. Really! I did not hear this from someone that heard it from someone. I heard this from him. I almost shot coffee out of my nose trying not to laugh at him. I have to give it to him he is creative. But Bobby this is a WET DREAM. Wake up and change your sheets.
For those who are not up to speed on the industrial revenue bond scheme here is how it works:

Mssrs. Willis and Risley present a proposed project to the County Commission which they claim will bring thousands of jobs, provide for veterans, etc. But, it needs the imprimature of the County Commission in order to be viable and to finance the anchor which is the VA hospital. The IRBs will indebt the entity upon who's project they are issued. Someone needs to check the financials of Mssrs.Willis and Risley's "charity". The hospital project will run into "difficulties" because the VA won't touch the project with a 10-foot pole. They don't operate that way and the law won't allow them to participate in such a scheme. So Mssrs.Willis and Risley are hoping to use the imaginary hospital to snag the bonds, spend the money, "bust out" the project by claiming it failed due to the VA backing out. The "charity" has no assets to collateralize this project, but the bonds would be spent on all sorts of hyper-inflated planning, consultants, accuisitions, land-swaps, etc. Once the money has been squirreled away in someone's bank account the project would come to a grinding halt and the bonding company would be looking for the perps. The bonding agency will have relied on the good-faith of SanJuan county for some of the due dilligence so the reputation of SJC will be smeared a bit. If that is possible. Because this scam/project was botched from the git-go the likelyhood of a bonding agency underwriting such a scheme is pretty remote. If they read any of the accounts they won't come near it. If the county commissioners take one step closer and don't announce pretty quickly they are out they can expect some intense and severe scrutiny from a lot of quarters. I can name half a dozen agencies who, in these financial times, would love to put a few notches in their rifle butts by taking down public officials who allow this sort of crap to occur. Think an AG (Susanna Martinez in Las Cruces) who wants to be govenor would be interested in this little dance? Think the State AGs office has any aspiring young turks who'd like a shot at these two or the commissioners who are talking up the project? How about a few of the financial reporters back on Wall St who need to make their bones? This thing needs to have a stake driven through its heart quickly before the rest of the country gets wind of what a gaggle of goobers let this get started.
Go Blue and Gold

Durango, CO

#51 Mar 15, 2010
Boy, Otis, I hope you spend half the energy you have expended ripping this project apart doing something positive for our community. You could probably dig that sewer line for Kirtland yourself. I am really not quite sure why someone would take so much time to belittle a positve project such as this so, forgive me, I have to question your motives.
Industrial revenue bonds are nothing new and used to finance all types of projects such as this.
Bobby Willis may be a part owner in Fuddruckers, but as I recall, it was his ex-partner whose name was mentioned regarding improper financial dealings.
A VA hospital would serve not only Farmington, but the entire 4 Corners area.
The Willises or Risley don't have to know how to build a hospital since I don't think they will be drawing the plans or turning the shovels. All they have to do is put the people together to get it done.
My dad WAS a vet and deserved better care than what was provided here at SJRMC. I support this project whole-heartedly.
My Two Cents Worth

Albuquerque, NM

#52 Mar 15, 2010
Otis wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Can't you folks figure this out? Would you expect the Air Force to buy a plane from some guy who had never been involved in aviation and decided it would be a good "idee" to build one with industrial revenue bonds and hope the Air Force would buy it? Building a 20 bed hospital is like hauling a lump of coal in a 220ton coal haul vehicle at the mines. A VA hospital these days has to be built to serve the largest population possible to be efficient. That would be at least 250beds. More likely it would be 500 beds. Would you build a restaurant to serve 10 people? I can't believe this silly story even has the legs it seems to have at this point. There isn't anything substantial to back up this fairy tale. Anybody bother to call the VA yet? These guys don't have the background, finances, ability, resources or experience to even get this idea on paper, let alone in front of a bonding authority. So they show up in GooberVille to try and hose the local yokels who are desparate for jobs and help for the local veterans. The idea that any responsible attorney would represent such a con job is nauseating. In addition to the VA and Harry Teagues office the question needs to be presented to the judicial standards board in Santa Fe once the scam is exposed fully.
Thanks for filling in the details, Otis. That was the answer I expected and I agree with you.
MMA Fan

Farmington, NM

#53 Mar 15, 2010
Otis wrote:
<quoted text>
For those who are not up to speed on the industrial revenue bond scheme here is how it works:
Mssrs. Willis and Risley present a proposed project to the County Commission which they claim will bring thousands of jobs, provide for veterans, etc. But, it needs the imprimature of the County Commission in order to be viable and to finance the anchor which is the VA hospital. The IRBs will indebt the entity upon who's project they are issued. Someone needs to check the financials of Mssrs.Willis and Risley's "charity". The hospital project will run into "difficulties" because the VA won't touch the project with a 10-foot pole. They don't operate that way and the law won't allow them to participate in such a scheme. So Mssrs.Willis and Risley are hoping to use the imaginary hospital to snag the bonds, spend the money, "bust out" the project by claiming it failed due to the VA backing out. The "charity" has no assets to collateralize this project, but the bonds would be spent on all sorts of hyper-inflated planning, consultants, accuisitions, land-swaps, etc. Once the money has been squirreled away in someone's bank account the project would come to a grinding halt and the bonding company would be looking for the perps. The bonding agency will have relied on the good-faith of SanJuan county for some of the due dilligence so the reputation of SJC will be smeared a bit. If that is possible. Because this scam/project was botched from the git-go the likelyhood of a bonding agency underwriting such a scheme is pretty remote. If they read any of the accounts they won't come near it. If the county commissioners take one step closer and don't announce pretty quickly they are out they can expect some intense and severe scrutiny from a lot of quarters. I can name half a dozen agencies who, in these financial times, would love to put a few notches in their rifle butts by taking down public officials who allow this sort of crap to occur. Think an AG (Susanna Martinez in Las Cruces) who wants to be govenor would be interested in this little dance? Think the State AGs office has any aspiring young turks who'd like a shot at these two or the commissioners who are talking up the project? How about a few of the financial reporters back on Wall St who need to make their bones? This thing needs to have a stake driven through its heart quickly before the rest of the country gets wind of what a gaggle of goobers let this get started.
Otis would you SHUT UP and wait to see what the plan is..Man your to smart for your own good. 8000 jobs is atleast worth looking in to since they have spent 18 million already..
Yeah I vote

Albuquerque, NM

#54 Mar 15, 2010
Just call your county commish and tell them not to get close to this thing. If the principals want to spend their billion bucks that's fine. Leave us and our bonding capacity out of it.
Paladin

United States

#55 Mar 15, 2010
step right up
Everyone's a winner, bargains galore
That's right, you too can be the proud owner
Of the quality goes in before the name goes on
One-tenth of a dollar
one-tenth of a dollar
we got service after the sales
Three for a dollar
We got a year-end clearance, we got a white sale
And a smoke-damaged furniture
you can drive it away today
Act now, act now
and receive as our gift, our gift to you
They come in all colors, one size fits all
Here come the snake oil salesmen.
My Two Cents Worth

Albuquerque, NM

#56 Mar 15, 2010
MMA Fan wrote:
<quoted text>
Otis would you SHUT UP and wait to see what the plan is..Man your to smart for your own good. 8000 jobs is at least worth looking in to since they have spent 18 million already..
I did a little Internet research about hospital systems that have 8,000 employees, so that we could all see the size of operation that would entail. A Google search directed me to Prime Healthcare Services in Southern California, since that's how many employees they have in their THIRTEEN HOSPITALS combined!

Here is the breakdown from their website:
"With more than 8,000 employees, PHS, by and through its subsidiaries, currently owns and operates thirteen acute care hospitals: Centinela Hospital Medical in Inglewood (370- beds), Chino Valley Medical Center in Chino (126- beds), Desert Valley Hospital in Victorville (83- beds), Encino Hospital Medical Center in Encino (151-beds), Garden Grove Hospital Medical Center in Garden Grove (167-beds), Huntington Beach Hospital in Huntington Beach (141-beds), La Palma Intercommunity Hospital in La Palma (131-beds), Montclair Hospital Medical Center in Montclair (102-beds), Paradise Valley Hospital in National City (301-beds), San Dimas Community Hospital in San Dimas (93-beds), Shasta Regional Medical Center (246-beds), Sherman Oaks Hospital and the Grossman Burn Center in Sherman Oaks (153-beds), and West Anaheim Medical Center in Anaheim (219-beds) in California. For more information, please visit www.primehealthcare.com "

If my calculator is correct, those 8,000 employees service 2,283-beds in acute care hospitals.

Something else I've wondered about is the 8,000 employees cited in the article for the proposed Kirtland VA hospital. How many jobs (after the complex is completed) would the folks in San Juan County be able to fill? I'm sure the vast majority of medical-related jobs would very likely come from outside the county, maybe even outside the state. I'm sure we could supply most of the receptionists and floor-scrubbers.

Since: Sep 09

Farmington, NM

#57 Mar 15, 2010
I wonder about the numbers of new jobs these guys are claiming will come here. It is very difficult to recruit new docors to the area, and if you belive everything you hear about the "greedy" doctors, how are we going to get doctors to come here for what the VA pays? How about the wage scale for nurses? You think the VA pays well enough to attract nurses here, when it is next to impossible to recruit enough doctors and nurses now? I agree, we should have VA facilities up here, but this sounds like the old addage "the bigger the lie, the easier it is to believe". I think these guys should try something a little less ambitious to begin with, like a Behavioral Health facility, and prove themselves God knows we could use a good Psychiatric facility.
Whats the deal

Ashburn, VA

#58 Mar 15, 2010
OMFG! Can you ppl read? The 8000 jobs being talked about are not all for the VA "facility" they include all jobs temporary, permanant as well as "spin off" related jobs. However, this is a total joke and pipe dream. Willis's true colors can be seen with is arrogant statements. He has delviverd his own first blow. In this county when you piss off the "people, bussiness community, hospital staff and board" with bold inflamitory statements about how rich you are and you will do it on you own if they dont like it, your done before you start. It takes a "village" for these kinds of projects to be successful. Willis likes to manage his small companies by intimidation. I doubt that will work here.
My Two Cents Worth

Albuquerque, NM

#59 Mar 15, 2010
Whats the deal wrote:
OMFG! Can you ppl read? The 8000 jobs being talked about are not all for the VA "facility" they include all jobs temporary, permanant as well as "spin off" related jobs. However, this is a total joke and pipe dream. Willis's true colors can be seen with is arrogant statements. He has delviverd his own first blow. In this county when you **** off the "people, bussiness community, hospital staff and board" with bold inflamitory statements about how rich you are and you will do it on you own if they dont like it, your done before you start. It takes a "village" for these kinds of projects to be successful. Willis likes to manage his small companies by intimidation. I doubt that will work here.
Yes, I can read. You should try it yourself before you jump on anyone else, Nimrod. Let me give you some quotes pertaining to the 8,000 jobs from the article,
"Risley said. He estimated construction of the hospital would create 3,000 temporary jobs, and once Veterans Affairs begins operations, more than 8,000 people could find jobs." (That's 8,000 jobs AFTER construction, and directly related to VA Operations, Nimrod.)

"The high job count comes from an estimation of the number of staff members, doctors, nurses, educators and technicians needed to provide the various proposed services, Risley said. For example, the assisted living center will boast one-on-one, around the-clock care." (This does NOT include "spin-off" or temporary jobs, Nimrod. Risley said these are hospital-related jobs.)

"We took studies of the different VA facilities and looked at the ratios of individuals to specialists," he said. "The care required for a lot of these services is intensive, and we believe the veterans component of the complex will create 8,000 jobs, and that's a conservative estimate."

So, once again, the article claims 8,000 jobs that are directly related to the operations of the hospital once it's up and running. It also cites the temporary 3,000 or so construction-related jobs, PLUS additional "spin-off" jobs that "will be created as the remainder of the development is populated with various privately owned businesses, Risley said."

That's not to mention those related to the "construction of grocery and retail stores, a movie theater, low-income housing and a gated community."

So the article quotes Risley projecting 8,000 or so VA Hospital-related jobs, 3,000 or so construction-related jobs, plus many hundreds more from private businesses both inside the complex and outside it in ancillary functions.

That's a bunch of jobs, Nimrod. You think SJC is up to it? I have my doubts.
Gary Risley

Los Alamos, NM

#60 Mar 15, 2010
Veterans for Common Sense wrote:
Why can't they allow services to veterans at San Juan Regional Medical Center? Veterans need help now. Who pays for these bonds? Taxpayers. Offer transportation services to veterans to receive service at the doctors of their choice, locally. Do not force them to go to a designated VA facility. Help Veterans now!
You are incorrect. The bonds are NOT paid for by the taxpayer, they are paid for by the parties building the project. While the bonds are issued in the county's name to take advantage of tax benefits for the bond purchasers, the County does not face any financial exposure.
Just trying to help

Albuquerque, NM

#61 Mar 15, 2010
Gary, your credibility is at stake. Cut your losses.

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