Climate change skeptics gathering in ...

Climate change skeptics gathering in Springfield

There are 29 comments on the Columbia Missourian story from Aug 13, 2009, titled Climate change skeptics gathering in Springfield. In it, Columbia Missourian reports that:

Not everyone believes global warming is real, and many of those skeptics will be gathering in Missouri later this week.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Columbia Missourian.

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truthist

Zephyrhills, FL

#1 Aug 13, 2009
I thought first: they must be paid to gather.. when others don't have the time. Then I read:

Boyer said his consulting company is funding the conference. He emphasized his views about climate change shouldn't be construed as a position of the state Air Conservation Commission, which develops Missouri's clean air policies.

You heard what he says.. haha.. you can guess more..
truthist

Zephyrhills, FL

#2 Aug 13, 2009
In another thread:
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
August 12, 2009
Second Warmest July on Record Globally, according to NASA
NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS) has determined that July of 2009 was the second warmest July globally, since records were kept going back well over a hundred years.
The global land-ocean temperature anomaly for July 2009 was +.60 Celsius or +1.08 F. Only July of 1998 (a strong el nino year) was warmer.
Where is all that cooling?
Don't ask me.. I did not post cooling. Who did?
JRS

Oak Creek, WI

#3 Aug 13, 2009
truthist wrote:
I thought first: they must be paid to gather.. when others don't have the time. Then I read:
Boyer said his consulting company is funding the conference. He emphasized his views about climate change shouldn't be construed as a position of the state Air Conservation Commission, which develops Missouri's clean air policies.
You heard what he says.. haha.. you can guess more..
Who funded Al Gores Movie? The Live earth concerts?

Oh yeah that's right I forgot. The earth bloomed flowers bearing dollar bills and the birds singing in the trees laid 10's and 20's. You know all that mature stuff just magically produced the money.

==

IPCC reviewer
and climate researcher
and scientist
Dr. Vincent Gray,

an expert reviewer
on every single draft
of the IPCC reports
going back to 1990
and author of The Greenhouse Delusion: A Critique of "Climate Change 2001:

“The [IPCC]‘Summary for Policymakers’ might get a few readers, but the main purpose of the report is to provide a spurious scientific backup for the absurd claims of

the worldwide environmentalist lobby

that it has been established scientifically that increases in carbon dioxide are harmful to the climate. It just does not matter that this ain't so.”

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm...

REPEAT:

"the worldwide environmentalist lobby"

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#4 Aug 14, 2009
truthist wrote:
I thought first: they must be paid to gather.. when others don't have the time. Then I read:
Boyer said his consulting company is funding the conference. He emphasized his views about climate change shouldn't be construed as a position of the state Air Conservation Commission, which develops Missouri's clean air policies.
You heard what he says.. haha.. you can guess more..
The people attending the conference paid for thier own way. Just like those who attended all those save the planet concerts that had a CO2 footprint the size of eath's moon.

What your upset about is that this means there are more than a few skeptics out there.Of course your not hearing about AGW supporters gathering. Then again you could hold that one in a hotel coffee shop.
truthist

Zephyrhills, FL

#5 Aug 15, 2009
JRS wrote:
<quoted text>
Who funded Al Gores Movie? The Live earth concerts?
Oh yeah that's right I forgot. The earth bloomed flowers bearing dollar bills and the birds singing in the trees laid 10's and 20's. You know all that mature stuff just magically produced the money.
==
IPCC reviewer
and climate researcher
and scientist
Dr. Vincent Gray,
an expert reviewer
on every single draft
of the IPCC reports
going back to 1990
and author of The Greenhouse Delusion: A Critique of "Climate Change 2001:
“The [IPCC]‘Summary for Policymakers’ might get a few readers, but the main purpose of the report is to provide a spurious scientific backup for the absurd claims of
the worldwide environmentalist lobby
that it has been established scientifically that increases in carbon dioxide are harmful to the climate. It just does not matter that this ain't so.”
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm...
REPEAT:
"the worldwide environmentalist lobby"
I have not seen the movie.. I am an independent thinking individual.

A "worldwide environmentalist lobby" is fiction because it is impossible to make any movement worldwide... unless like AGW it involves everyone on the planet. In other words, the issue draws the people to the movement.
truthist

Zephyrhills, FL

#6 Aug 15, 2009
Speaking of climate:
“The climate is currently warming faster than the worst case known from the fossil record, about 56 million years ago, when temperatures rose about 6 degrees over 1000 years. If emissions continue it is not unreasonable to expect … warming of 5.5 degrees by the end of this century.”
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/...

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#7 Aug 15, 2009
I saw this in the Drudge Report this morning. That Marc Morano has my admiration!

We are going to do to the Senate over new climate taxes what the American people are doing to the House over socialized medicine.

Keep up the good work, everyone!

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#8 Aug 15, 2009
truthist wrote:
<quoted text>I have not seen the movie.. I am an independent thinking individual.
A "worldwide environmentalist lobby" is fiction because it is impossible to make any movement worldwide... unless like AGW it involves everyone on the planet. In other words, the issue draws the people to the movement.
I yet to see any signs that you have ever been a independant thinking. Otherwise you might of notice that AGW has falle by the way side. Notice how little it is mentioned in the local news.

Your right about how it draws people to it. It was the latest pop fad that is fading for another fifty years. Twenty years from now people will be hopping on the global cooling band wageon and I will not be surprised to hear your independant thinking yelling about how we all have to band together to stop the planet from freezing.
Ex Resident

Sullivan, MO

#9 Sep 19, 2009
I was a skeptic for a short time. Then I went back to my home state of Colorado for a visit. That's when I got my eyes opened. We don't see the obvious changes here in Missouri. But I saw something out there that I never thought I'd ever see. The ice caps on the mountains were almost completely melted. Hardly a trace of snow where there were huge glaciers that had been there for thousands of years. I realized then what trouble we could all be in. Without the runoff from the mountains, there will be no water on the plains, and then it will be a desert. I could show you pictures of what it was like out there just thirty years ago, when I was growing up in the Rockies. The comparison to now would stun you. I don't think it's all hype anymore.
So don't believe it if you don't want to. But when the crop land in America is desert, I don't want to hear you complaining about being hungry.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#10 Sep 20, 2009
Ex Resident wrote:
I was a skeptic for a short time. Then I went back to my home state of Colorado for a visit. That's when I got my eyes opened. We don't see the obvious changes here in Missouri. But I saw something out there that I never thought I'd ever see. The ice caps on the mountains were almost completely melted. Hardly a trace of snow where there were huge glaciers that had been there for thousands of years. I realized then what trouble we could all be in. Without the runoff from the mountains, there will be no water on the plains, and then it will be a desert. I could show you pictures of what it was like out there just thirty years ago, when I was growing up in the Rockies. The comparison to now would stun you. I don't think it's all hype anymore.
So don't believe it if you don't want to. But when the crop land in America is desert, I don't want to hear you complaining about being hungry.
Nor will you. The fact is the glaciers in climate terms were never ment to last forever. They were theremains of an ice age that dominated the land thousands of years ago and in ten thousand years form now will domate the landscape again.

While some land will suffer from decreased rainfall the difference can be made up from irrigation. The land unlike past ages can remain productive. There were even a few that had the idea of raising algee in the desert.
Ex Resident

Sullivan, MO

#11 Sep 20, 2009
Definitely there will be another ice age in the next few thousand years. But we can't ignore that the polluting we are doing to the Earth is speeding things up. The face of the Earth is constantly changing. With those changes comes the extinction of many species. Do you honestly think that humans are immune to that? I am astounded that you would think that the polluting that we are doing to the Earth is not having any effect. That is just an excuse to continue to live as selfishly as always.
As for irrigation. Where do you think the water for irrigation comes from? It comes from runoff that goes underground on it's journey. Water tables are dropping radically. You can't irrigate if there is no water to irrigate with.
The ignorance is just astounding. You are denying those that deny nature, but you are denying nature in thinking that human waste and pollution is not having an effect on the ecology.
This country is not the only one noticing that global warming is going off the scale. If our species does survive, it will still likely be largely depopulated. Regardless of whether or not it's natural warming or brought about by human irresponsibility, the effect is going to be the same. Life as we know it is going to change, and possibly end.
I believe that the warming will suddenly shift and we will enter another ice age. We are not well prepared for that either. The only hope we have as a species in that we are very adaptable. I don't think that the governments are going to be able to stop what is already too far in motion. I don't think that humans have the power to undo what is happening. Perhaps in that we agree. I do think that if everyone would be more responsible, we could slow things down and give ourselves a chance to find ways to adapt.
I think the majority of people who want to pretend that it's all a lie and not happening are involved in big business and are concerned with money. Unfortunately, money can't buy you life or buy back the planet.

“EnvironMENTAList ”

Since: Feb 07

Near Detroit

#12 Sep 20, 2009
Ex Resident wrote:
Definitely there will be another ice age in the next few thousand years. But we can't ignore that the polluting we are doing to the Earth is speeding things up. The face of the Earth is constantly changing. With those changes comes the extinction of many species. Do you honestly think that humans are immune to that? I am astounded that you would think that the polluting that we are doing to the Earth is not having any effect. That is just an excuse to continue to live as selfishly as always.
As for irrigation. Where do you think the water for irrigation comes from? It comes from runoff that goes underground on it's journey. Water tables are dropping radically. You can't irrigate if there is no water to irrigate with.
The ignorance is just astounding. You are denying those that deny nature, but you are denying nature in thinking that human waste and pollution is not having an effect on the ecology.
This country is not the only one noticing that global warming is going off the scale. If our species does survive, it will still likely be largely depopulated. Regardless of whether or not it's natural warming or brought about by human irresponsibility, the effect is going to be the same. Life as we know it is going to change, and possibly end.
I believe that the warming will suddenly shift and we will enter another ice age. We are not well prepared for that either. The only hope we have as a species in that we are very adaptable. I don't think that the governments are going to be able to stop what is already too far in motion. I don't think that humans have the power to undo what is happening. Perhaps in that we agree. I do think that if everyone would be more responsible, we could slow things down and give ourselves a chance to find ways to adapt.
I think the majority of people who want to pretend that it's all a lie and not happening are involved in big business and are concerned with money. Unfortunately, money can't buy you life or buy back the planet.
Conservative:
“I don’ think we have anything to worry about with this 23 year old global warming stuff because old Mother Nature is going to do what it’s going to do, the way it’s always done it before and we can’t stop it, no way. Volcanoes, fossils and comet-hits come to mind? Let’s continue taking care of our planet and progress to making life even better for more people of the world.”

What’s your view on global warming?
Liberal:
“Well I suppose we must be doing something to our earth. You can’t deny that. That’s obvious to anyone. Just look around and see the garbage and the dirty air and our polluted seas and lakes. And what’s wrong with helping the planet anyways? We can’t just keep doing what we do to the planet forever like this. Sooner or later it’s going to catch up with us. We are obligated to leave this planet in good shape for our children. And it’s better to be safe than sorry.”

This is the best of times to be alive. We have so many opportunities, luxuries and no king in history lived as well as almost all North Americans do now as we are living longer than at any time in human history as a species. 98% of Americans are NOT homeless. Close to three quarters of Americans own and or mortgage their own home. Every tap in North America has safe, treated and drinkable water. Go to a grocery store and tell me times are worse than before. Look at the abundant, accessible and safe supply of food we have. If anything, affluence is our bigger problem considering the obesity rates.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#13 Sep 20, 2009
Ex Resident wrote:
Definitely there will be another ice age in the next few thousand years. But we can't ignore that the polluting we are doing to the Earth is speeding things up. The face of the Earth is constantly changing. With those changes comes the extinction of many species. Do you honestly think that humans are immune to that? I am astounded that you would think that the polluting that we are doing to the Earth is not having any effect. That is just an excuse to continue to live as selfishly as always.
As for irrigation. Where do you think the water for irrigation comes from? It comes from runoff that goes underground on it's journey. Water tables are dropping radically. You can't irrigate if there is no water to irrigate with.
The ignorance is just astounding. You are denying those that deny nature, but you are denying nature in thinking that human waste and pollution is not having an effect on the ecology.
This country is not the only one noticing that global warming is going off the scale. If our species does survive, it will still likely be largely depopulated. Regardless of whether or not it's natural warming or brought about by human irresponsibility, the effect is going to be the same. Life as we know it is going to change, and possibly end.
I believe that the warming will suddenly shift and we will enter another ice age. We are not well prepared for that either. The only hope we have as a species in that we are very adaptable. I don't think that the governments are going to be able to stop what is already too far in motion. I don't think that humans have the power to undo what is happening. Perhaps in that we agree. I do think that if everyone would be more responsible, we could slow things down and give ourselves a chance to find ways to adapt.
I think the majority of people who want to pretend that it's all a lie and not happening are involved in big business and are concerned with money. Unfortunately, money can't buy you life or buy back the planet.
While pollution is having an effect it is less than it was decades ago. And part of that effect was the cooling caused by those airborne paricles decreased as the particles decreased. A typical cause and effect. But while we have an effect we do not control the climate. We can affect it by a degree or less but at most if we all worked together to follow the guidelines you seem to think will solve the problem it would at most only keep the temp from rising one degree for one year.

If you were serious about trying to keep the planet from warming you would want to add more particulant matter in the atsmosphere. Past major volcanic eruptions have had that effect including a year without a summer back in 1816 if I remeber right.

The funny thing about water is that all the water that was on the planet when the dinosaurs swam is still here. It can be made available for irrigation without depending on glacier run off. Many places on the planet tha have no glaciers still have rivers. Another source could be the oceans. If people were willing to take the effort that they place in wind and solar and use that to develop desalination plants the world could use the oceans to supply all the potable water you could ever imagine. That could also solve those pesky worries about that rising ocean. In fact it would lead to new worries about the worlds oceans disappearing.

But lets face it. Your looking for a world that will remain static. That those ice covered mountains will remian covered with the remains of the last ice age. The problem is the world has never been static. It is consently in change. The land moves and the climates shift in patterns as old as the planet. And there will be plenty of humans including some like you crying that if we don't stop that we will cause the end of the race. That is one of the few things that neer seem the change. Only the source of thier doom changes.
truthist

Zephyrhills, FL

#14 Sep 20, 2009
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
While pollution is having an effect it is less than it was decades ago. And part of that effect was the cooling caused by those airborne paricles decreased as the particles decreased. A typical cause and effect. But while we have an effect we do not control the climate. We can affect it by a degree or less but at most if we all worked together to follow the guidelines you seem to think will solve the problem it would at most only keep the temp from rising one degree for one year.
If you were serious about trying to keep the planet from warming you would want to add more particulant matter in the atsmosphere. Past major volcanic eruptions have had that effect including a year without a summer back in 1816 if I remeber right.
The funny thing about water is that all the water that was on the planet when the dinosaurs swam is still here. It can be made available for irrigation without depending on glacier run off. Many places on the planet tha have no glaciers still have rivers. Another source could be the oceans. If people were willing to take the effort that they place in wind and solar and use that to develop desalination plants the world could use the oceans to supply all the potable water you could ever imagine. That could also solve those pesky worries about that rising ocean. In fact it would lead to new worries about the worlds oceans disappearing.
But lets face it. Your looking for a world that will remain static. That those ice covered mountains will remian covered with the remains of the last ice age. The problem is the world has never been static. It is consently in change. The land moves and the climates shift in patterns as old as the planet. And there will be plenty of humans including some like you crying that if we don't stop that we will cause the end of the race. That is one of the few things that neer seem the change. Only the source of thier doom changes.
This is pure rubbish. What a concidence that you are both ignorant and also a denialist. We are NOT responsible for your ignorance.

Study on your own.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#15 Sep 21, 2009
truthist wrote:
<quoted text>This is pure rubbish. What a concidence that you are both ignorant and also a denialist. We are NOT responsible for your ignorance.
Study on your own.
I see we are just posting the same thing again on every topix.
Fun Facts

AOL

#16 Sep 21, 2009
Ex Resident wrote:
Definitely there will be another ice age in the next few thousand years. But we can't ignore that the polluting we are doing to the Earth is speeding things up. The face of the Earth is constantly changing. With those changes comes the extinction of many species. Do you honestly think that humans are immune to that? I am astounded that you would think that the polluting that we are doing to the Earth is not having any effect. That is just an excuse to continue to live as selfishly as always.
..... Regardless of whether or not it's natural warming or brought about by human irresponsibility, the effect is going to be the same. Life as we know it is going to change, and possibly end.
I believe that the warming will suddenly shift and we will enter another ice age. We are not well prepared for that either. The only hope we have as a species in that we are very adaptable. I don't think that the governments are going to be able to stop what is already too far in motion. I don't think that humans have the power to undo what is happening. Perhaps in that we agree. I do think that if everyone would be more responsible, we could slow things down and give ourselves a chance to find ways to adapt.
I think the majority of people who want to pretend that it's all a lie and not happening are involved in big business and are concerned with money. Unfortunately, money can't buy you life or buy back the planet.
First, pollution is a problem that we should address and have been addressing for many years now. Rivers don't burn in this country anymore.

Climate always changes and yes we will return to a period of glaciation in the future.

We live in an ice age. Our earth has been in an ice age for about 2.5 - 3 million years with the most severe part of that ice age being the last 500,000 years. We are currently in an interglacial of that ice age.

The current pattern of glaciation and interglacials are regulated at this time by the eccentricity of the earth's orbit, the obliquity of the earth's tilt.

We enterd this interglacial about 14,700 years ago when the earth hit max eccentricity. The thermal max of this interglacial was achieved about 9000 years ago when the earth hit max obliquity. We have been declining in eccentricity, obliquity and temperature since that time.

The ice you saw in Colorado was not there 9000 years ago, or even 6000 years ago. Glaciation after the end of the Younger Dryas, approx 12,000 years ago, did not begin again in the northern hemisphere until about 4000 years ago. Very little glaciation happened until the Little Ice Age. The LIA had the largest amount of glaciation since the end of the Younger Dryas.

Here's a graph from the Vostok ice cores showing the last glacial period and the holocene optimum, out current interglacial.

http://zappitec.com.br/Forum/VOSTOK20ky.png

Here's a look from the greenland ice core data.

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww350/info...

Scroll down to the graph of glaciation for the last 4000 years.

http://www.theresilientearth.com/...

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#17 Sep 21, 2009
We are going to discuss the new civility, believers in climate change mitigation deserve our respect.
truthist

Zephyrhills, FL

#18 Sep 21, 2009
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
First, pollution is a problem that we should address and have been addressing for many years now. Rivers don't burn in this country anymore.
Well.. that is how we got to today. I dug up what I had written earlier after seeing this comment of yours and posted it already in a few threads again. We are still on fossil fuel use and so-called CO2 emissions..

People just say "CO2 emissions" but they are referring to the culprit in at least five fronts:

(1) greenhouse effect,
(2) net heat emissions,
(3) oxygen depletion,
(4) its sister/daughter/related chemicals,
(5) related pollution and its effects.

All of the above affect our very thin biosphere.
Ex Resident

Sullivan, MO

#19 Sep 22, 2009
For the beating you are taking, Truthist, I agree with you. But arguing with these people is like trying to argue with a fence post. When people do not want to believe something, no facts or proof will ever change their minds. They will do what they want.
In the meantime, I will continue to try to do my part in limiting my energy use, and cleaning up behind myself, including limiting my waste. Hopefully, there are enough like minded individuals to make a difference. Less polution doesn't mean no pollution. It's like those people that feel that they no longer need to diet, because they lost ten lbs. Even though they are still a hundred lbs overweight. There are people that will not let go of self and immediate gratification, no matter what the future cost will be. They just do not believe that there will be a day when they will have to pay what's owed to the environment. Pollution may be lower than it was a couple of decades ago, but it's still much more than it was even a century ago.
There is still so much that could be done to lower pollutants, in just our daily lives. Sadly, some people intend to live just as they have, and let others try to make up for them.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#20 Sep 23, 2009
In the mean time, climate change mitigation is a science without a single experimental test, in that way, it's just like ESP.

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