In several metro communities, even the concrete is going green

Mahtomedi's public works building is not only new, but parts of it are cutting-edge green as well.

[Labratt]

Cool idea, but I'm a little leary of the freeze/thaw cycles. That kills roads made of the toughest stuff we can make.

http://www.perviouspavement.org/index.html

[Tybalt]

that's nice but, please no windmills. i mean it. windmills are worthless. windmills suck.

[Marcella]

This "green" BS is a liberal buzz word that only means more money out of your pocket.
I'm choosing to go the otherway as well as many other folks who are fed up with this nonsense..

[Met]

This is so cool. Great to see forward-thinking communities building this into their infrastructure.

[Green Boy]

Pervious pavers don't have the same freeze-thaw issues as pervious concrete. Instead, they're more flexible, and a better solution.

Marcella, why don't you keep going the "other" way--right back into your cave.

[Bob the Bilderberg]

If you don't use this stuff it means you hate Mother Earth.

[felix]

interesting that all around white bear lake storm water has been directed away from the lake , rain gardens,limits on impervious surface etc.etc.etc., and it sure seems to helping the lake. lol

[Labratt]

Green Boy wrote:

Pervious pavers don't have the same freeze-thaw issues as pervious concrete. Instead, they're more flexible, and a better solution.
Marcella, why don't you keep going the "other" way--right back into your cave.

It has load limitations though. I can see it as part of a decorative scheme for sure, but will it stand up to the 18 wheelers? The pervious nature of things isn't a perfect thing either. I see small amounts of trapped moisture causing big problems. Prove me wrong, please. It does seem like a very attractive solution to lake water pollution.

[Irony]

Green?...perhaps, Cutting edge?...hardly. Porous concrete pavers that were developed during WWII to build camouflaged runways have since been used for decades for durable, esthetic, porous driving surfaces. And they're more durable, and interesting than this pretend concrete that will turn to dust after 3-4 MN winters.(it won't be too green when it has to be replaced in 5 yrs.): http://tinyurl.com/n6lgvo

[Labratt]

Marcella wrote:

This "green" BS is a liberal buzz word that only means more money out of your pocket.
I'm choosing to go the otherway as well as many other folks who are fed up with this nonsense..

Marcella, is "the other way" just another way of saying "do nothing" and hope for the best? That seems to be a pretty popular notion on the TOPIX board already. That paradigm has proven itself wrong, and is not very forward thinking.

[Irony]

Green Boy wrote:

Pervious pavers don't have the same freeze-thaw issues as pervious concrete. Instead, they're more flexible, and a better solution.
Marcella, why don't you keep going the "other" way--right back into your cave.

Why don't you read the article before commenting? The story is about a poured slab, not pavers. Cement formulas used in MN are are developed to keep moisture out because of the unstoppable destruction of freeze/ thaw cycles.

[Sense]

The same old script is run through every public works program. Go with the latest and greatest, whether or not it will stand the test of time is obviously irrelevant. It's not their money they are spending, so they will ALWAYS forgo proven methods to sit on the cutting, more expensive edge. Then when they are out of office and the materials they pushed through disintegrate, they are not around to blame. Products with wild boasts and claims don't even have to prove it; they just sell it to the mindless bureaucrats who justify it by calling it 'green'.

[Irony]

Labratt wrote:

<quoted text>
Marcella, is "the other way" just another way of saying "do nothing" and hope for the best? That seems to be a pretty popular notion on the TOPIX board already. That paradigm has proven itself wrong, and is not very forward thinking.

While I agree with the philosophy of looking forward, it appears that here we have a case of re-inventing the wheel with a square because someone used the word 'green'. That behavior in more consistent with a religious zealotry in the name of a deity, than scientific discovery in pursuit of the truth.

[Labratt]

Irony wrote:

<quoted text>
While I agree with the philosophy of looking forward, it appears that here we have a case of re-inventing the wheel with a square because someone used the word 'green'. That behavior in more consistent with a religious zealotry in the name of a deity, than scientific discovery in pursuit of the truth.

Perception being what it is, can make or break an idea. You obviously give these posts some thought, and respond to the content. Many on the board see "green" as a liberal ploy to separate us from our hard earned money, and give a kneejerk response that reflects a bias toward Anti-Green. Neither extreme is sound. Green isn't a political issue, it isn't a religion, it is another form of free enterprise. Nothing will ever replace fossil fuels and such, it just isn't going to happen. When they are gone, they are gone, and we will be screwed. Other options will be around, but we will be forced to attack the problems from several angles. This will appear to be more of a mindset than a solution. It is going to take alot more individual attention, just to get by.

[felix]

Labratt wrote:

<quoted text>
Perception being what it is, can make or break an idea. You obviously give these posts some thought, and respond to the content. Many on the board see "green" as a liberal ploy to separate us from our hard earned money, and give a kneejerk response that reflects a bias toward Anti-Green. Neither extreme is sound. Green isn't a political issue, it isn't a religion, it is another form of free enterprise. Nothing will ever replace fossil fuels and such, it just isn't going to happen. When they are gone, they are gone, and we will be screwed. Other options will be around, but we will be forced to attack the problems from several angles. This will appear to be more of a mindset than a solution. It is going to take alot more individual attention, just to get by.

we will never run out of oil--a natural forming substance of our mother earth-period!

[Labratt]

felix wrote:

<quoted text> we will never run out of oil--a natural forming substance of our mother earth-period!

Not nearly at the rate of our consumption. We peaked in the 1980's and consume at a rate exceeding more than any planet could ever produce. The well will run dry. On a geological timeline, the fossil fuel age will not even register. You could not sharpen a pencil enough to even draw the line.

[SunShine]

felix wrote:

<quoted text> we will never run out of oil--a natural forming substance of our mother earth-period!

Yup, just as soon as you can melt down a few million more dinosaurs, and plant material, we will be good to go!

[LGA Larry]

In addition to the Coon Rapids community center, a number of local units of Minnesota
government submitted requests for bonding projects for upcoming legislative session
that will kick off in February. It is important to remember two things about these
bonding projects. First, bonding projects are financed by debt that must be paid
back with interest. In other words, these are things that will be put on the state's
credit card to be repaid by not only ourselves, but our children and grandchildren.
Second, this continues to be a very difficult economy, with high unemployment and
prospect of a jobless recovery (whenever that happens).

So what have our elected officials chosen as priorities during these tough times?
Here's a partial list:

Bemidji: walking trail bridge ($1,000,000)

Big Lake: ice arena ($1,000,000)

Carlton County: community "services" center ($4,800,000)

Chisholm: recreation center ($350,000)

Dasel-Cokato School District ($1,261,000)

Dodge County: walking trail ($2,704,000)

Duluth: children's museum ($2,750,000)

Eveleth: Hampton Inn improvements ($650,000)

Fergus Falls: community arena ($4,300,000)

Granite Falls: walking bridge ($512,000)

Hennepin County: African American Cultural Center ($840,000)

International Falls: heritage center ($5,672,000)

Inver Grove Heights: Heritage Village Park:($1,313,000)

Mankato: Civic Center expansion:($13,900,000)

Marshall: regional sports center:($4,000,000)

Minneapolis: Orchestra Hall ($22,000,000)

Minneapolis: Target Center improvements ($4,000,000)

Duluth Tourist Train ($13,000,000)

Mountain Iron: Arrowhead Athletic Complex:($5,580,000)

Nashwauk: community building ($500,000)

New Hope: ice arena:($712,000)

Ramsey County: winter recreation area ($1,500,000)

Rochester: civic center expansion:($34,000,000)

Sargeant: community center ($100,000)

St. Cloud: civic center expansion:($15,100,000)

St. Paul: Ordway expansion ($17,500,000)

St. Paul: Asian Pacific Cultural Center ($9,750,000)

St. Paul: Saints ballpark ($25,000,000)

Two Harbors: campground expansion ($2,000,000)

And that's just a sampling. For shame.

http://www.mmb.state.mn.us/doc/budget/narrati...

[Bullshitake]

Irony wrote:

Green?...perhaps, Cutting edge?...hardly. Porous concrete pavers that were developed during WWII to build camouflaged runways have since been used for decades for durable, esthetic, porous driving surfaces. And they're more durable, and interesting than this pretend concrete that will turn to dust after 3-4 MN winters.(it won't be too green when it has to be replaced in 5 yrs.): http://tinyurl.com/n6lgvo

But at least it will be 100% recycleable.

[Irony]

Labratt wrote:

<quoted text>
Perception being what it is, can make or break an idea. You obviously give these posts some thought, and respond to the content. Many on the board see "green" as a liberal ploy to separate us from our hard earned money, and give a kneejerk response that reflects a bias toward Anti-Green. Neither extreme is sound. Green isn't a political issue, it isn't a religion, it is another form of free enterprise. Nothing will ever replace fossil fuels and such, it just isn't going to happen. When they are gone, they are gone, and we will be screwed. Other options will be around, but we will be forced to attack the problems from several angles. This will appear to be more of a mindset than a solution. It is going to take alot more individual attention, just to get by.

I, for one tend not to disagree with the notion that much the environmental, or 'green' movement of today is driven by political expediency, as well as economic greed. For many, it will be a short-lived trend, with the lifespan of the latest kitchen color. For others, it will be scam with the character, and dimensions of ENRON. Some exhibit the behavior of a religion, and blindly follow the word their prophets. Fortunately, there are those with broader, and deeper perspectives on events, and circumstances.

I'm not sure we will ever completely run out of oil, although due to scarcity, it will become impractically expensive. Such is the reality of the marketplace. What is ironic about crude oil, I believe, is that it has far more value in this era of 'new' materials, as a raw material source than as a supply of energy. Yet those who rave ignorantly about 'carbon footprints' fail to open their minds to nuclear power, because someone told them it was wrong.
There are motivations at work in the 'green' movement that have no regard for this, or any planet. Thus the cynicism of many with concerns and ideals as sincere as your own.