NIV is Corrupt As Jehovah Witnesses's...
Pravda

Jefferson City, TN

#102 Jan 30, 2013
Alas, Truth seems to have abandoned the tread when the going got tough. He may show back up here or start another thread. We can only wait.
LUV2LUV

Morristown, TN

#103 Jan 30, 2013
In I Timothy, Paul wrote to Timothy at Ephesus to encourage him to stay the course in regard to his ministry there. I Timothy 1:5-6 "Now the goal of our instruction is love that comes from a pure heart, a good consience, and pure faith. Some have deviated from these and turned aside to fruitless discussion". Maybe we havegotten off the correct path of concern...maybe.

“A witty saying proves nothing.”

Since: Jan 13

Tennessee

#104 Jan 30, 2013
LUV2LUV wrote:
In I Timothy, Paul wrote to Timothy at Ephesus to encourage him to stay the course in regard to his ministry there. I Timothy 1:5-6 "Now the goal of our instruction is love that comes from a pure heart, a good consience, and pure faith. Some have deviated from these and turned aside to fruitless discussion". Maybe we havegotten off the correct path of concern...maybe.
So what you're saying here is that people should never discuss what they feel to be the truth? Never talking about it will ultimately lead to even more divisions than what there all ready are.
LUV2LUV

Morristown, TN

#105 Jan 30, 2013
Wait-----what wrote:
<quoted text>
So what you're saying here is that people should never discuss what they feel to be the truth? Never talking about it will ultimately lead to even more divisions than what there all ready are.

Not at all....We need to have intelligent discussions. We must talk openly and freely about our feelings. I'm just saying, and I think Paul was saying, don't get side-tracked by hatred or ego. If we can keep an open mind, then we have a chance to learn. The Ephesians failed to do this and they were doomed. Pettiness and refusal to look at all sides of any issue prevents us from broadening our scope. I read your posts. You have a healthy opinion on the topics being discussed, however, I've noticed you are accepting of other people's views. Maybe you don't agree, but you are courteous enough to give them an ear and an intelligent retort. For this I give you kudos.
The Truth

Morristown, TN

#106 Jan 30, 2013
OVER IT wrote:
<quoted text>Then why do you keep going back to the Greek and Hebrew language to make your point? I also must point out in post #79 you referred to Greek mythology, the Greek language and Greek mythology is two different things entirely. The Bible was translated from the Greek and Hebrew language not mythology. Thanks for pointing out we seem to have two The Truths, I was not paying very close attention myself!
I was showing how the NIV uses Hades instead of Hell. Hades is sometimes happy fields in Greek Mythology and not Greek language.
Not Perfect

Morristown, TN

#107 Jan 30, 2013
Someone mentioned that it has been awhile since "The Truth" has posted on here. I don't believe that he has ran and hid. Hopefully he has not taken ill. If you are there, "The Truth", I pray all is well.
The Truth

Morristown, TN

#108 Jan 30, 2013
hmm wrote:
<quoted text>
its better for me to understand using NKJ Version cause its very much the same and explains and shows the words that may have been edited into laymans terms for todays understanding and meaning;Psalm 12:6-7
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 The words of the Lord are pure words,
Like silver tried in a furnace of earth,
Purified seven times.
7 You shall keep them, O Lord,
You shall preserve them from this generation forever.
The New King James bible has perverted the words of God.
The Truth

Morristown, TN

#109 Jan 30, 2013
hmm wrote:
i also have the NIV but chose not to use it cause of the same reasons u have that leaves out complete sentences that have relevance or meaning to the verse.
Amen
I bought an NIV to make sure it perverts the word of God. It does. I threw it in the garbage can where all NIVs belong.
The Truth

Morristown, TN

#110 Jan 30, 2013
Pravda wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to disagree. You yourself just said it was translated in your first sentence. The KJB, from your on words, was a finally "translation". It wasn't translated from a previous version of the KJB, nor from a previous English translation. You said there were corrections made but that is called a revision.
What does Greek and Hebrew being hard to translate have to do with it? Psalms 12:7 says the words will be preserved forever. God doesn't need his words translated to English to be understood, if he did the Bible would have been written in English to start with. I suppose you think the KJB needs to be "translated" into Greek and Hebrew for it to correct.
There are four editions, not revisions of the KJB. Big difference. Revisions change meanings. Editions corrected misspelled words. The 1611 KJB means the same as we have today. The first edition used Gothic type style. The next one used Roman as we use today.
The Truth

Morristown, TN

#111 Jan 30, 2013
jamie wrote:
Hadn't been on in a few days but I ask the truth if he believes in apostles and he said sure....well ur wrong there buddy....paul plainly states that if u have never seen jesus christ physically in person then u can't be an apostle....so guess that leaves out the pope
I said I believed there were Apostles. I never said there are Apostles today. The Pope is a dope and has no hope as the Catholic teachings are from the pits of hell.
The Truth

Morristown, TN

#112 Jan 30, 2013
Wait-----what wrote:
<quoted text>
No. I am not Jehovah's Witness. I refuse to be a part of denominationalism.
1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV, "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." When we label ourselves, we segregate ourselves.
Galatians 3:26-28 KJV, "26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
For all are one. ONE! How can we all be "one" when we choose to give ourselves titles and separate ourselves from one another? Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Jehovah's Witness, Adventists, Catholic, Episcopalian, etc...the list goes on. Let there be no divisions...What do you call that?
To finish out the 1 Corinthians I stated earlier. I gave you verse 10 above, here's 11-13:
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say , that every one of you saith , I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided ? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
In verse 12 we could easily substitute the names of Paul, Cephas, and Apollos, with names like Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian etc. Those are divisions.
Food for thought.
We are suppose to endure sound doctrine. I believe that Independent Baptist are the closest to the word of God. No women preachers or sprinkling just to name a couple.
The Truth

Morristown, TN

#113 Jan 30, 2013
Just a Christian wrote:
It is obvious that "Wait...What" is from a Christian Church. They think they are non-denominational, but they're not. They believe water baptism is integral to salvation and that the Holy Spirit is received (spiritual baptism) at the moment of water baptism.
It is obvious that "The Truth" is from a Baptist Church. They think that the KJV Bible was ordained by God himself, and they believe that water baptism is purely symbolic.
I tell you the truth gentleman. You both are a bit right and a bit wrong. God is bigger than both of you and your traditions of belief. I am close to both churches. I am friends with ministers/pastors in both churches and have studied, discussed, prayed over, etc. about these topics ad naseum. Water baptism is both symbolic and necessary. The Holy Spirit can be received at water baptism, but it isn't always. It is received "the hour one truly believes". For many (Christian Church) that's at water baptism, but for many others (Baptist Church) that is when they repent in their heart at the altar. I will say this about the Christian Church though; I've seen a lot of false conversions where the person just got water baptized and never changed. I've also seen many Baptists who repent unto salvation, but are ignorant about translations, original texts, and anything which they can't understand in 5 seconds of analysis. Christ's church is larger than both of you gentleman. God is larger than the KJV version of the Bible too. It is a translation, not the exact script as God inspired the prophets and the apostles to write. The differences between "Hades" and "Hell" and many, many other words are from translation. If you dig deeper into knowledge of Greek and Hebrew words Mr. "The Truth" you will be surprised how many times there really is no perfect translation for those original words into English. Also, some versions of the Bible such as the KJV attempt to translate word for word, which is difficult because in Greek their sentence structure is totally different. The NIV and some other versions attempt to paraphrase more. There is a version called the ESV (English Standard Version) which is actually more "word for word" accurate than any other. All this said, I do sympathize with "The Truth" and what he is insinuating. I do believe there are many perverse translations, but I don't think he or others should be so quick to judge without increasing their knowledge base.
If the KJB isn't the pure, preserved, inerrant written words of God and the only authority for one's life, which bible is? The only English bibles that used the correct Textus Receptus were Wycliff's,bible, Coverdale's bible, Matthew's bible, The Great bible, The Geneva bible, The Bishop's bible, and the Authorized King James bible.
The Truth

Morristown, TN

#114 Jan 30, 2013
Pravda wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree on the ever changing of the English language. Awful used to mean something good, full of awe, now its means something bad.
That's because the Authorized King James Bible used proper English unlike what people use today. Yous knows whats i mean man. Whaz up?
The Truth

Morristown, TN

#115 Jan 30, 2013
Just a Christian wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that the OP is right to a certain extent. But it is also necessary to recognize that the KJV is a translation of an original manuscript. Other translations are from original manuscripts as well. They didn't "change" the KJV. It's also necessary to recognize that words in the English language change meanings over the years. We live in a corrupt world, with corrupted language. Everyone should "study to show yourself approved" - 2 Timothy 2:15, or as the KJV version says "study to show thyself approved".
The KJB is the only bible I can find that gets Matthew 5:22 right. It has the three key words that other corrupt versions leave (WITHOUT A CAUSE). The Jehovah Witnesses' bible and all other perverted bibles such as the NIV say you are in danger of judgement if you are angry. Thank God for the KJB that tells us we can be angry if we have a cause! Jesus got angry when he had a reason and did not sin!
Pravda

Jefferson City, TN

#116 Jan 31, 2013
The Truth wrote:
<quoted text> There are four editions, not revisions of the KJB. Big difference. Revisions change meanings. Editions corrected misspelled words. The 1611 KJB means the same as we have today. The first edition used Gothic type style. The next one used Roman as we use today.
I stand corrected, edition not revision. But you didn't address how translating the KJB into another language does not make it an eighth translation, negating you perfect seven analogy.

As for English being a changing language, I'm not talking about modern slang, though there could be a case for that as well, but using proper English as it should be spoken today. The KJB is very well written and has beautiful phasing. However it could be written in more modern English without losing any of the meaning. I think you are afraid if there was a translation today from the manuscripts you mentioned we might find some differences you would not agree with.
No Perfect

Morristown, TN

#117 Jan 31, 2013
This has been a very valuable forum. I personally have learned from the give and take of this debate. For the most part it has been thought provoking and extremely sincere. It seems as if most everyone has taken this seriously and tried to give their best knowledge. However, it is my belief that it is time to cut the thread. I noticed over the last few days that more and more "quacks" have joined this debate. Also, since the original forum started, there have been several spring up. While this in itself is not bad, I do believe the intent is just to spew vile words and untruths. When Paul wrote to Timothy in Ephesus (I Timothy), he instructed him to not carry on pointless discussions. It was a waste of time and could lead to the detriment of the ministry. Now I realize you may not agree, and I also realize you have every right to continue, I will bow out and leave this forum. Thanks to all those Christians who contributed to this discussion in a noble and Christ-like manner. To those who posed as someone else or were sarcastic and evil, I will pray for you and hope you receive the true salvation offered only by Jesus Christ. Good Day.

“A witty saying proves nothing.”

Since: Jan 13

Tennessee

#118 Jan 31, 2013
No Perfect wrote:
This has been a very valuable forum. I personally have learned from the give and take of this debate. For the most part it has been thought provoking and extremely sincere. It seems as if most everyone has taken this seriously and tried to give their best knowledge. However, it is my belief that it is time to cut the thread. I noticed over the last few days that more and more "quacks" have joined this debate. Also, since the original forum started, there have been several spring up. While this in itself is not bad, I do believe the intent is just to spew vile words and untruths. When Paul wrote to Timothy in Ephesus (I Timothy), he instructed him to not carry on pointless discussions. It was a waste of time and could lead to the detriment of the ministry. Now I realize you may not agree, and I also realize you have every right to continue, I will bow out and leave this forum. Thanks to all those Christians who contributed to this discussion in a noble and Christ-like manner. To those who posed as someone else or were sarcastic and evil, I will pray for you and hope you receive the true salvation offered only by Jesus Christ. Good Day.
Rarely does a thread on Topix actually mean something to someone let alone be beneficial to them. I am happy for your sake that you were able to take something from this. I can only hope that something I said was beneficial to you as well. I don't say that out of vanity, I say that out of sincerity. I haven't said anything in here for lip service, I was hoping that someone could take some things I said and find some form of peace or solace.

I think I am going to be done with this thread as well, but before I go I will leave you with something that has helped me get through every difficult moment in my life:

1 Peter 5:6-7

King James Version (KJV)

6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
Facts is facts

Johnson City, TN

#119 Jan 31, 2013
WOW !!! All of this over a book written by men for a religion canabalized from other religions.

“A witty saying proves nothing.”

Since: Jan 13

Tennessee

#120 Jan 31, 2013
Facts is facts wrote:
WOW !!! All of this over a book written by men for a religion canabalized from other religions.
Posts like this from people like you are the reason that the intellectual people are leaving this thread behind. While you are entitled to your opinion, I also am entitled to mine. No one asked you to come in here and read any of this, you chose to. If you don't like what you read, all you have to do is click the back arrow on your browser and you can go wherever that will make you happy. But instead of being a decent person, you have to bash something. If I may be so bold, probably something you don't understand or cannot comprehend. If something you do not like or believe in brings some kind of joy, peace, or comfort to someone else that needs it, then who are you to try to bash it or try to take it away? I feel sorry for you, friend.
Facts is facts

Johnson City, TN

#121 Jan 31, 2013
Wait-----what wrote:
<quoted text>
Posts like this from people like you are the reason that the intellectual people are leaving this thread behind. While you are entitled to your opinion, I also am entitled to mine. No one asked you to come in here and read any of this, you chose to. If you don't like what you read, all you have to do is click the back arrow on your browser and you can go wherever that will make you happy. But instead of being a decent person, you have to bash something. If I may be so bold, probably something you don't understand or cannot comprehend. If something you do not like or believe in brings some kind of joy, peace, or comfort to someone else that needs it, then who are you to try to bash it or try to take it away? I feel sorry for you, friend.
Thank you for giving me permission to read this thread. I, just like you, stated an opinion. I am a decent person and am not bashing anything or anyone. Based on personal knowledge and research, I have formed my opinion on what I have learned. The majority of christians are closed minded to any alternative opinions about christianity. AEven when presented with proof, their faith over rules facts and proof. I applaud that level of faith. You, and anyone else has the right to believe as they wish. That does not mean that my opinion, though different than theirs (yours) makes me undecent, or mean, or bashing when it comes to your belief. You have your opinions you stated and I can have mine and should have the right, like you, to voice my opinion. I did so on this thread because of the opportunity to have my opinions heard by those who have a strong christian belief and might offer intellectual rebuttals.

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