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No on 4

Bieber, CA

#1 Nov 14, 2008
For those of you out there that support a woman's right to choose I dare you to watch the video that I've provided a link to below. If you can watch the video and continue to support the murder of 1.3 million human lives every year then you are a really sick person. Call it propaganda or anything you want but this is the part they don't show you when you show up at the clinic to kill your baby.

CinCin

San Francisco, CA

#3 Nov 14, 2008
Do you watch videos of children wounded and killed by American bombs?
Do you think that is wrong also?

If you do, perhaps you will re-think your support of people who kill foreign innocents, and turn around and call themselves 'Christian'.

You, as an American, have every right to protest abortion. I have the right to think it is an individual choice. If you dont think it should be, fine.
When the planet is shoulder to shoulder in human beings,(12 new people every second right now) and places like China start FORCED sterilizations and abortions- simply to survive- perhaps you will look at it differently.

The children, and mothers, and animals, in Iraq, or Afghanistan DONT even get THAT choice. They are simply killed, and the current admin. justifies this how?
By using religion!
Christians and Muslims. Haves and have-nots.

Nothing new, just saying if you are concerned about the unborn- maybe you could also be concerned about the newly born too.
Just Maybe

Bieber, CA

#4 Nov 14, 2008
First of all, I am concerned about the newly born and who said I was a christian. You don't have to be a christian to abhor what was in the video. So two wrongs make a right? And I will never look at murder as a form of population control. And yes, I agree, it is an individual choice whether to KILL an unborn baby or not. A pregnant woman at 20 weeks gets shot by an armed robber and they both die. The robber is charged with a double homicide. Now that same woman can go to a clinic and have that same baby murdered under the auspice of 'legal abortion' and no charges are filed and not only that but the law protects her! Tell me how this is not messed up. I don't like the fact that women and children are dieing in Iraq any more than this I just chose to be more compassionate about abortion. Do you think it's right to kill a 2 year old child? What's the difference if they are in the womb? They're still a child.
anonymous

Eureka, CA

#6 Nov 14, 2008
I don't agree with abortion but I do agree that a woman should have the choice. And it is true, in China, families are regulated to one kid per family, and if it's a girl, it can be aborted just for not being a boy. If they find out you dared get pregnant with a second child, they will force you to abort it. No matter how far along you are.
They have no say. Believe it or not, that is what, I think, abortion proponents are talking about. Not the right to kill a baby, but the right not to have the government decide for you.
There is a deeper issue.
Some religions don't even believe in birth control. It should be readily available to every woman so that the issue of an unwanted pregnancy doesn't even have to be an issue. It should be available, not forced. If abortion is to be outlawed, then every single person against it should be willing to go down to the orphanage and pick up a kid like you're picking out a bag or apples at the grocery store.
Change the laws about how hard it is to adopt a child. Change the attitudes about how a gay person isn't fit to be a parent.
Stop watching the gruesome video and do something to make a change so a woman knows there is somewhere for her kid to end up that isn't worse than not being born at all.
No on 4

Bieber, CA

#7 Nov 14, 2008
Your points are all well taken. By the way, I could only watch the video once. What they do in China is not right. I agree that there needs to be education but until then MURDER is not the answer. With all due respect, you disagree with abortion which is good but how can you say you support a woman's right to KILL her unwanted baby. MURDER IS WRONG and anyone who condones even the choice for someone to do it should really examine themselves. Would you feel the same that it's a woman's right to KILL her 2-yr old child? I would hope not and trust that you don't feel that way. So if that's the case how can you support a woman's right to KILL HER BABY?
Kitty

Buena Park, CA

#8 Nov 14, 2008
I have a simple answer to abortion.
STOP HAVING SEX.
Period.
anonymous

Eureka, CA

#9 Nov 14, 2008
Knock, knock....
Nobody home?
I don't think you really listened to what I said.
No on 4

Bieber, CA

#10 Nov 14, 2008
I did listen and I agree. Yes on birth control, no on governmental decisions, Yes on adoption.But MURDER is not the answer. You did not address the question I posed to you.
anonymous

Eureka, CA

#11 Nov 14, 2008
I never said that murder is the answer.
Not even close.
You, your own self, just stated that you say "no on govermental decisions".

Knock knock.
Anybody home yet?
No on 4

Jackson St Forest, CA

#12 Nov 15, 2008
I was speaking of governmental decisions on deciding how many kids we have. ABORTION=MURDER So if you or anyone supports a woman's right to 'choose' you support a woman's right to choose MURDER.
mark

Arcata, CA

#14 Nov 15, 2008
No on 4 wrote:
For those of you out there that support a woman's right to choose I dare you to watch the video that I've provided a link to below. If you can watch the video and continue to support the murder of 1.3 million human lives every year then you are a really sick person. Call it propaganda or anything you want but this is the part they don't show you when you show up at the clinic to kill your baby.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =kgiTrQkH9JgXX
Every thorny problem begins with this question: Who owns your life?

There are 2 fundamental choices - I do, or others do. If you choose that "others" own your life, you might hope you can choose who those others will be. Not that it matters. Others, whether that is the government or the Taliban, will make your decisions for you, like it or not.

If you absolved yourself of responsibility for your own life, and turned it over to the government, they may force you to give birth today. Tomorrow, they may just as well force you to get pregnant, and the day after that, they may well force you to get sterilized. After all, it IS up to them, right?

Think very very hard about the Taliban. You have no excuse for ignorance here, they have been in the news for 10 years or more. Think hard about how they apply their arbitrary power by calling it the power of Allah. You can pretend that they are all "insane" if you want. But, they are not. They are men exercising power over women by declaring the answer to the First Question is: "WE" own your life.

Revolted by videos of an abortion? Watch a video of an artificial knee replacement surgery. If you don't puke, I'll buy you lunch. A lot of things in life are revolting, hard to look at, distasteful. Watch films of babies in villages being burned by Napalm dropped by Ivy League soldiers flying war planes with US flags emblazoned on the wings. Like what you see? Or, does it disgust you? If it disgusts you, are you going to try to stop it from ever happening again? I thought not.

Conservatives want to lay claim to two totally dissonant ideas: Yes to Freedom, No to Abortion. This should in itself be a warning. Conservatives want to kill babies in foreign lands to bring them freedom, but scream "murder" when a woman here tries to exercise hers. If we are going to scream "murder" - can we at least be consistent?

Were you anti-choice people out in the streets screaming "Murder!" during the period of Shock and Awe when over 10,000 children were killed in Iraq during the bombings? No, I thought not.

Freedom begins with answering "I do" to the question of who owns your life.
Coastal

Berkeley, CA

#15 Nov 15, 2008
No on 4: how many kids have you adopted? None? Shut-up then. Change the adoption laws so that biological parents can't reclaim the baby after 2 years and more Americans would adopt American babies.
mark

Arcata, CA

#16 Nov 15, 2008
One more thing, "murder" has a specific and exact meaning. If you don't believe in language just say so. "Murder" is the unlawful killing of another human PERSON with malice aforethought. A "fetus" is a developing mammal before birth. QED: abortion is not murder. Which, is why we have separate words for things, so that intelligent beings can exchange ideas accurately.

If we all want to make up our own language, our own definitions, our own meanings to things already determined, we'd go backwards, wouldn't we? Oh wait....that's what Conservatism means!
mark

Arcata, CA

#17 Nov 15, 2008
Oh by the way, here's the Napalm video for all you self righteous "baby protectors" to watch.

MafiaDawn

Mckinleyville, CA

#18 Nov 15, 2008
Mark, you are right on. What I want to know is what we are going to do with the 1.3 million extra people, who by the way would not, in most cases, be born into families that can care for them. What would we do with all those extra people? The ones born to women who because of another pregnancy can't leave their abusive husbands, the ones born to children under the age of 14, the ones born with birth defects, drug and alcohol addictions, and the results thereof. The families on welfare, the families laid off from mills,fishing and auto plants,who cannot afford, financially or emotionally to raise a child. And don't give me that adoption bullshit. Adoption is an absolutely wonderful thing, but I don't see the non-choice people lining up for crack babies,or babies hung on doorknobs, or severely burnt in the tub, or battling against HIV and hep C and cerebral palsy.
Despite all this, the real issue is control over our own bodies. Nobody should have to endure an unwanted pregnancy.
mark

Arcata, CA

#19 Nov 15, 2008
MafiaDawn wrote:
Adoption is an absolutely wonderful thing, but I don't see the non-choice people lining up for crack babies,or babies hung on doorknobs, or severely burnt in the tub, or battling against HIV and hep C and cerebral palsy.
Despite all this, the real issue is control over our own bodies. Nobody should have to endure an unwanted pregnancy.
^5!
Of course, you just exposed the underbelly of total hypocrisy in the pro-life camp. How many crack babies did Phyllis Schafly adopt now? How many Mega-Churches are emptying out all the foster care programs across the country?

It's absolute unadulterated self-righteous bullying by the same people all the time. Anti-gay, anti-choice, anti-freedom, anti-everything that isn't exactly like them. It's the REAL "American Taliban."
Turn off your TV

Jacksonville, FL

#20 Nov 15, 2008
Shouldn't we just let the free market work it all out?!?

Who is the Government to tell me what to do!
mark

Arcata, CA

#21 Nov 15, 2008
No on 4 wrote:
I was speaking of governmental decisions on deciding how many kids we have. ABORTION=MURDER So if you or anyone supports a woman's right to 'choose' you support a woman's right to choose MURDER.
Respectfully, here is where your argument totally flops.
1. You don't get to redefine words, meanings and definitions that have been agreed upon. No, sorry, a horse is not a zebra because you happen to think so.

2. Now, I shall use your construct of the proposition there to make it seem entirely foolish to even you. "If you supported the Iraq War, then you support a US soldier's right to murder innocent Iraqi children!" How's that sound to you? Ya wanna turn our soldiers into murderers? Well, that's what your foolishly constructed argument does.
anonymous

Eureka, CA

#22 Nov 15, 2008
No on 4 wrote:
I was speaking of governmental decisions on deciding how many kids we have. ABORTION=MURDER So if you or anyone supports a woman's right to 'choose' you support a woman's right to choose MURDER.
Okay...wait just a second.
This isn't even funny anymore.
No more knock-knocks because the lights are all off and obviously, nobody's home.
Forget hearing anything I say, or hearing anything anyone else says.
Do you hear YOURSELF?
Your very first sentence says,
"I was speaking of governmental decisions on deciding how many kids we have."
That's not what you were speaking about.
Because if you were, you would know that what you are saying means you think OUR government has every right to tell all women who get pregnant, by whatever means, that they WIILL HAVE A CHILD.
You are not against governmental control over pregnancies.
You are fighting for it.
Two sayings come to mind and then I am done with you.
1) Be careful what you wish for
2) IGNORANCE IS BLISS

I'm only guessing on the second one because I'm not really schooled on the whole "ignorance" thing.
But if it's true, it must be nice.

No on 4

Jackson St Forest, CA

#23 Nov 15, 2008
Coastal wrote:
No on 4: how many kids have you adopted? None? Shut-up then. Change the adoption laws so that biological parents can't reclaim the baby after 2 years and more Americans would adopt American babies.
You assume I have not adopted. Do you know that for a fact.Don't tell me to shut up, you know nothing. This is not about adoption this is about murder. Ok so lobby to change that adoption law if you don't like it but as I've said, time and time again in this thread, MURDER IS NOT THE ANSWER!

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