Red-light cameras to be discussed

Full story: Fort Worth Star-Telegram

Red-light cameras will be the focus of a City Council discussion Tuesday. The council is scheduled to hear a staff presentation about the automatic cameras that snap pictures of vehicles and their drivers when ...

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Roger H

Killeen, TX

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#1
Oct 2, 2006
 

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I think government cameras are a great idea WOW look at all the free money and we can say its for SAFETY (THAT ALWAYS WORKS) and then we can make more laws and have more cameras this is great!!! and then maybe stop-sign cameras. And since its everybody else that runs red-lights and not me it makes it even better since. Kinda like a home owners association its there for everybody else except me. Because i do it right just like everybody else. Enjoy your Big City.
Richard H

United States

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#2
Oct 2, 2006
 

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It’s quite the quandary. In our hurried lifestyle we have quite a few running red lights, no doubt about that. On the other hand we have a mechanical device that will “catch” violators, cost less than a uniformed officer, and bring in more money than can be believed.

The company selling the devices find it quite lucrative for themselves and paint a pretty picture for how well the world will be after it is installed. However, several troubling consequences have arisen in other instances of red light camera’s being used.

First, the city actually benefits financially when people violate the law. Thus some cities have created short yellow lights to ensure a steady stream of violators.

Second, given today’s heavy traffic, people often “tail gate” of necessity as other’s jockey for position cutting into any gap. This tail gating often demands one not slam on the brakes for a yellow light with another vehicle following closely, and also can leave one hanging in the intersection of a string vehicles stopped at the next intersection. An incomplete evacuation of the intersection looks the same to a dumb camera, whereas an intelligent observer could judge if drivers were engaged in executing the safer maneuver or wanton neglect of traffic laws.

Thirdly, traffic violations are an individual act, but red light camera’s identify the vehicle by ownership. The vehicle’s owner is identified and then becomes the owner’s responsibility to contact the actual driver (alleged traffic violator) in a timely matter.

Fourthly, the driver who executes hundreds of traffic decisions every commute, upon finally being notified (either directly or from the vehicle owner) some days after the alleged violation, must try to recollect the actual day and event of the violation. This has the desirable (by the city) consequence of using one’s fading memory of innumerable traffic events to gain acquiescence of guilt. One remembers when one robs a bank. One does not remember the circumstances and timing of 24 intersections encountered per day, every day, on one’s commute.

Fifthly, the “witness” of the camera to the alleged violation cannot be questioned, cannot recall the day and its events, and is given greater weight than real people and real circumstances. It is a defacto guilty verdict. What else are judges to do with the evidence? Once some one argues with it and it can not respond, the camera either stands as a credible witness or not. The financial incentive for the city is to side with the camera in all cases.

If a city were solely concerned with safety of a particular intersection, they would allocated a police officer to that intersection. We have already allocated police officers to schools in various cities, surely for safety sake we can allocate a police officer to a particularly troublesome intersection for a period of time. While there he is still available “on call” for other needs. Additionally, detach the financial incentive of the decision from the safety concern. Send all machine (camera) acquired citation revenue to the state of Texas.

We shall see if the incentive is fairness, safety, or money.
teka-rain

Long Valley, NJ

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#3
Oct 17, 2006
 
pretty simple. studies show that Longer yellow lights mean less running reds and less traffic accidents in intersections. some of the same studies show that Shorter yellow lights increase red light runs and traffic accidents. the manufactureres and opererator/contractors or red light camera systems Buy their way in by spinning tales about all the money the system will make for local government.(just as soon as they payoff the contractors install and upkeep fees) the very next act is to Quietly mention that shorter yellows will mean more money.. no need to worry about safety, right? you have the cameras to catch all those terrible criminals..
BIG BAD JOHN

Rockwall, TX

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#4
Oct 10, 2007
 

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Since you people drive like idiots and doge and cutt and front of people and toss out your cigerates and act highly stupid I think the hole thing is really funny, maybe the camera will indicate them a ticket even if they go through a yellow light. I fully agree with what the governer could be doing. Stupid people deserve to pay fines even the ones they don,t deserve. Based on the way people have been driving the past two weeks I,am all for the red light camera.s Simple is this go the speed limit when some=one is having car problems don,t run them off the road so they can get out of your car pass them carefully. So mr teka head I think it,s a great Ideal and let me know when you get your first ticket so I can get a good laugh.
Unreal

Lancaster, PA

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#5
Oct 23, 2007
 

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I just think it's funny that the number of red light-runners dropped when the put some up in Dallas, but the number of quick-stop rear-end accidents at those intersections skyrocketed.
big bad john

Rockwall, TX

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#6
Oct 23, 2007
 

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I just think it,s funny that your dog do do info is apparently wrong. The rate of those running red lights is only a small amount have dropped. And you say that the number of rear in accidents have increased??? Your wrong! When you decide to post information from another planet make sure you post the right info. At any rate we have at least two cops that are part of this forum. They may be doe doe birds but even they can tell you that your false. I know alot about the law myself though I,am far from being a cop. I have a few relatives that are cops and based on the info your posting here they say is false. Now get back on your own lancaster Pa forum. While your at it stay out of texas with your false info.
Unreal

Lancaster, PA

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#7
Oct 23, 2007
 
Well gee, my 'do do' information comes from the nightly news.

Perhaps you should do a little research.

Oh and while you're at it, grow up.
Unreal

Lancaster, PA

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#8
Oct 23, 2007
 
For informaion, you only need to look as far as our own channel 8 news coverage. Oh sorry... I mean "planet channel 8." Since you say my information comes from another planet.

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/lo...

In case you can't read long stories...I'll highlight the paragraph for you.

"Some studies and opposition groups have questioned the effectiveness of the cameras. And a Federal Highway Administration study found that while the number of severe broadside collisions fell, rear-end crashes increased by 15 percent."
Jim leonard

Rockwall, TX

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#9
Oct 23, 2007
 
Unreal wrote:
For informaion, you only need to look as far as our own channel 8 news coverage. Oh sorry... I mean "planet channel 8." Since you say my information comes from another planet.
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/lo...
In case you can't read long stories...I'll highlight the paragraph for you.
"Some studies and opposition groups have questioned the effectiveness of the cameras. And a Federal Highway Administration study found that while the number of severe broadside collisions fell, rear-end crashes increased by 15 percent."
Well it looks as though mistakes happen, apprently my folks may have mis=read something. This is interesting. However am I soppose to tell you that i,am sorry for making a mistake??? I,am telling you again to go back to your own planet forum. This is a city forum for the locals around here,they are stupid enough as it is and my ideal is to respond to there silly non=sence. We handle things here in texas without some outsider from another planet telling us what we should do. My mistake on this one though that doesn,t mean tha we shouldn,t have no red light camera,s. Your just a long winded drifter that had drifted onto this bedford city forum. Enough of your dog do though this one may have been true I expect no further postings from you about this red light camera situration. Oh and yes there are two cops on this forum I don,t think they would like reading these complainings of red light camera,s. Though perhaps you may have just made that story all up and printed out your=self??? I wonder because based on this here story I myself with my own eyeballs has still seen just as many people running red lights. Nice one but apprently you printed that hole story your=self. Nice try. You ought to be arrested for false gibberish.....
Jim leonard

Rockwall, TX

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#10
Oct 23, 2007
 
Unreal wrote:
For informaion, you only need to look as far as our own channel 8 news coverage. Oh sorry... I mean "planet channel 8." Since you say my information comes from another planet.
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/lo...
In case you can't read long stories...I'll highlight the paragraph for you.
"Some studies and opposition groups have questioned the effectiveness of the cameras. And a Federal Highway severe broadside collisions fell, rear-end crashes increased by 15 percent."
I have here a fellow cop standing here beside me mr unread is it? Honestly he happens to be my nathpew and he is saying that you must have printed this hole story up. That is one cop that sets here in tells me that none of this exist! I,am checking with channel 8 news never seen such a story. Your a joke, and a false pretencer and possibly a fraud. Why don,t you take your yankee ass and stay on your own forum. I have relatives that know about the law you don,t. THIS HOLE STORY IS FALSE AND ALL PRINTED OUT BY YOU.
big bad john

Rockwall, TX

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#11
Oct 23, 2007
 

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Unreal wrote:
Well gee, my 'do do' information comes from the nightly news.
Perhaps you should do a little research.
Oh and while you're at it, grow up.
By the way jim leonard is not my real name neither is big bad john, although I can honestly say my real name is Ricky not a kid Ricky but my real name at age 43. There is no further need of you being on this forum. Again I now have two other law enforcment people that are telling me this is false and that you probly printed it out. I don,t have time to have it checked out and I Will leave it at that to the fact that your a human lie,er. Now goodby and get lost...
big bad john

Rockwall, TX

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#12
Oct 23, 2007
 

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Richard H wrote:
It’s quite the quandary. In our hurried lifestyle we have quite a few running red lights, no doubt about that. On the other hand we have a mechanical device that will “catch” violators, cost less than a uniformed officer, and bring in more money than can be believed.
The company selling the devices find it quite lucrative for themselves and paint a pretty picture for how well the world will be after it is installed. However, several troubling consequences have arisen in other instances of red light camera’s being used.
First, the city actually benefits financially when people violate the law. Thus some cities have created short yellow lights to ensure a steady stream of violators.
Second, given today’s heavy traffic, people often “tail gate” of necessity as other’s jockey for position cutting into any gap. This tail gating often demands one not slam on the brakes for a yellow light with another vehicle following closely, and also can leave one hanging in the intersection of a string vehicles stopped at the next intersection. An incomplete evacuation of the intersection looks the same to a dumb camera, whereas an intelligent observer could judge if drivers were engaged in executing the safer maneuver or wanton neglect of traffic laws.
Thirdly, traffic violations are an individual act, but red light camera’s identify the vehicle by ownership. The vehicle’s owner is identified and then becomes the owner’s responsibility to contact the actual driver (alleged traffic violator) in a timely matter.
Fourthly, the driver who executes hundreds of traffic decisions every commute, upon finally being notified (either directly or from the vehicle owner) some days after the alleged violation, must try to recollect the actual day and event of the violation. This has the desirable (by the city) consequence of using one’s fading memory of innumerable traffic events to gain acquiescence of guilt. One remembers when one robs a bank. One does not remember the circumstances and timing of 24 intersections encountered per day, every day, on one’s commute.
Fifthly, the “witness” of the camera to the alleged violation cannot be questioned, cannot recall the day and its events, and is given than people and real circumstances. It is a defacto guilty verdict. What else are judges to do with the evidence? Once some one argues with it and it can not respond, the camera either stands as a credible witness or not. The financial incentive for the city is to side with the camera in all cases.
If a city were solely concerned with safety of a particular intersection, they would allocated a police officer to that intersection. We have already allocated police officers to schools in various cities, surely for safety sake we can allocate a police officer to a particularly troublesome intersection for a period of time. While there he is still available “on call” for other needs. Additionally, detach the financial incentive of the decision from the safety concern. Send all machine (camera) acquired citation revenue to the state of Texas.
We shall see if the incentive is fairness, safety, or money.
And what part of this earth do you come from. It only claims that your from the united states? Don,t you have your own united states forum to go on and what brings you on this one making up more dog do do about the red lights. Either love it lump it are get used to it the red lights are here to stay and I think it,s a good ideal and i,am all for it. When you people print false stories please take it on your own forum...
Unreal

Lewisville, TX

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#13
Oct 23, 2007
 

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You guys do absolutely nothing to show any intelligence from this state.

Your typing is horrible your attitudes are ridiculous and you apparently have no clue about ISP's at all.

I live in Texas you retards. And it's nice of you to assume I have no one in law enforcement in my family, but as a matter of fact, my brother is a cop.

Nice try though. Now go back and finish school.(No, the 6th grade was not your senior year)

It's called spell check, look into it. Losers.
big bad john

Rockwall, TX

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#14
Oct 23, 2007
 

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Mr unreal no further statments on your whinnings of the red light. Live with it deal with it are eat it. Red light stays. Oh I,am very sure your brother is a cop all just because I have a few relatives that are cops now you are making up some hogwash that your BROTHER IS A COP. Try more like a burger king manager right??? Now if you don,t have any good names to call us are don,t have anything that is true to say then Stay on your dallas forum??? You must have some kind of business computer that has an i.p. from up north. I,am aware of that you tootless idiot. We are proud of this state and apparently you are not from here at least you weren,t raised around here. Now get off this forum at once are else you will get more of these replyies. Your brother a cop??? Not sure how many times I have heard this one before. I have long finished school my freind and your the babbling fool that started this hole mess. We don,t like false pretencers here and we don,t like those that babble info that doesn,t exist. Spell checks I don,t use them unless it is inportant as long as your reading and griping about the message is all that matter,s. Keep your mouth shut are go on another forum. And if you had any brains in that head of yours you would find your=self another forum. Do you let these opinions bother you that bad?? If some=one replyied to me I would just engore them and easyly go away like you should do. DOn,t worrie about it. And if your brother is a cop my brother is an F.B.I. AGENT.
Unreal

Lewisville, TX

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#15
Oct 23, 2007
 
I can't even make sense of what you typed. Go back to school, graduate and try again.
eal

Austin, TX

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#16
Oct 24, 2007
 
big bad john wrote:
F.B.I. AGENT.
Im so proud of you! You spelled F.B.I. correctly! Hooked on phonics worked for you!
eal

Austin, TX

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#17
Oct 24, 2007
 
John, if you ever did utilize spell check, your whole paragraph would be underlined in red because spell check would be checking every word. HA!
big bad john

Rockwall, TX

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#18
Oct 24, 2007
 

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Unreal wrote:
I can't even make sense of what you typed. Go back to school, graduate and try again.
You can make since of what I typed? Your brother is a cop? Give me a break. You say the people are rude here in texas?? I guess you had forgot how much ruder the people were in your state right? Not only you post stupid non=sence that is false you post stupid remarks. Do me a faver and all the rest we are having fun busting chops on this forum and your crying like a babby. You have no ralitives are family that are cops. I really do and when I said that you stated that you had one that was a cop to. Nonsence. Also I have now 13 witness that I talk today stating this clip of yours isn,t worth a pile of dog do do. Now we are using this forum for fun now. You can go post your babbling non=sence else=where.
big bad john

Rockwall, TX

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#19
Oct 24, 2007
 

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eal wrote:
<quoted text>
Im so proud of you! You spelled F.B.I. correctly! Hooked on phonics worked for you!
No earl I take more time out to correct my mistakes. I just so happened to have had extra time for spelling checks. Keep in mind my freind the only time spelling checks are inportant is when your filling out some forum are perhaps doing papper work such as you probly do all the time. When your on a busting chops forum what is inportant is the fact that the message is read good enough to piss the other person off. YOu and I can,t piss on another off anymore. Therefore you and I are busting chops as they call it. We both have backgrounds of living around cops. At least a few of my realitives are cop. Only close relative of one being a cop around here in my napthew no not north richland hills and I won,t say were.
big bad john

Rockwall, TX

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#20
Oct 24, 2007
 

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eal wrote:
John, if you ever did utilize spell check, your whole paragraph would be underlined in red because spell check would be checking every word. HA!
Since I have been part of this forum for such a long time now and I don,t really like using the handle john I,am even going to give out my real first name. Ricky if you don,t mind I would perfer that name even though I go by the handle big bad john. No last name metioned, however I believe I can fully trust a cop right???

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