Community college planning on target

Convincing some leery county residents that a two-year community college is essential to the region's future has been a nagging problem for supporters of the project.

[ErieCitizen]

read the plan on the Erie County website. This thing is ridiculous. we have five colleges within easy driving distance and eight schools similar to Tri State Business. For those who want additional education. The plans calls for paying Family First $98,000 per year on a thirty year lease. They want to hire twenty-five admininstrators at an average of $90,000 per admininstrator with five percent raises over the next five years. And, they are only hiring twenty-three staff. With all the vacant malls and buildings that can be found in the county it is absurd to build this ridiculous school. The bottom line is that not everyone wants to go to college, Erie hasn't attracted business that would hire the grads and, with the current economy maybe have to choose between buying gas to get to a job or paying utility or grocery bills. They are not going to be taking out a loan to attend Dumvecchio U.

[HazyDavy]

The Erie Times editorial board has hooked their wagon to the Comm. College without knowing what the total cost per student projections are. So far, we know from reading the various articles that the cost may be over $12,000 per student per year for tuition...most paid for by the county taxpayers, and all being funnelled into the coffers of the the four year local colleges. How about it Times News...give us an OBJECTIVE (1) estimate of cost per student for this C.C. and (2) compare it with the same cost for, say, Butler Com. College.

[FredG]

True, Mr. DiVecchio's 'vision' is driving this entire issue and because of that the taxpayers cannot rely on either him or his hired consultants to give us the true picture. For this type of objective coverage, the citizenry normally looks to the Time News. In this instance, however, it seems as if the decision to go ahead has been made with the very flimsiest of evidence and the Times has no interest in reporting the facts. We only have to look as far as the last county-run training school that cost the local and state taxpayers over $15 million when it went out of business only five years ago. Please...do your due diligence on this potentially massively expensive initiative.

[E ks]

From what I read--I don't know if plans are for another technical school or a comm. college. What am I missing?

[lakerman1]

Many of the students who would attend a community college are non-traditional. That means housewives returning to school after the kids are older, men who lost jobs and need retraining, high school dropouts who were not successful in high school, but are trying again - in summary, students who are different than the 18 or 19 year old prep school kid sitting in the classroom at Mercyhurst or Gannon.

Trucking these non-traditional students all over town, and putting them in with the teenager preppies guarantees failure.

the pizza boy county executive is a dunce, at least as stupid as his economic developpment director. And the members of the county council should be ashamed of themselves for going into a third community college scheme, after the failure of each of the first two community colleges.

I have never seen such a sorry group of losers in my life. And the fact that the pizza boy would have William Garvey, the former and disgraced president of mercyhurst college is advising him is pathetic.

[Brian MacIsaac]

I have lived in this town for many years and it's the same shit, different toilet - I currently attend Erie Business Center as more of a way to bide my time until my father hands over the family buisness; this town and it's officials can't seem to realize that towns like this with a steadily shrinking population and next to no stable shop jobs isn't in need of another school or some other similar programme, it's in need of a cultural 'do-over" so to speak. This town has almost noting to offer in the way of entertaniment, we can barely even keep our water's PH level below "hydrochloric acid" level (lol)and since I've lived here we've been governed by the same chubby Italian people year after year.

This town will be a ghost town in a few short generations if actions aren't taken to make this place financially, socially and culturally more entertaning.

[Mamachicken]

I aggree that Erie needs a community college. I am enrolled in college now and I am finding it very hard to come up with the funds for tuition. There aren't a lot of choices in this area for an affordable college education. I hope that we find out soon if we can support a community college or not. I would like to know so I can plan on attending.

[Steiner]

How about the Harborcreek Mall site! Is the building still operable. They have the building and Parking allready established. Dino, Peck and the boys are dying to get someone in there. They just put a lerta on it to. It would probably be tax exempt,once LERTA ran out, but Harborcreek could benefit from it being located there. What does anyomne else think?

[girl]

I agree that we need a CC. Just look over the border and at other colleges..like Butler CC. The investment made in education is alwys reeped later by the taxpayers in many forms--It is well documented that them more education--the more money you make and the return on investmetn in the form of taxpayer dollars, lower crime rate, etc. You cannot grow a region wihtout qualified people. The research is there, and there are jobs that are in need including nursing, ship building, welders, etc. Schools like Mercyhurst, Gannon, even PS Behrend are more and more unaffordable unless you are very poor (and get all the aid) or very rich. Schools like Tristate and EBC rape the taxpayers and the students. Very few of them at the private schools pay for their education--and the owners make money hand over fist. A good example--unbeleivabley true is that the LPN program at Tristate and EBC is about twice as much as it is a Mercyhurst!! Around 14K compared 26-28K for the private schools. Insane given that the outcomes and standards at colleges/universities are much more strict. Maybe some efforts should go into reigning in the charge these schools can charge. Tristate should not be able to make a 14K profit from every student..especially when you go across the border to Ohio and similar programs cost less than 1/3 the price. Please bring a community college to make those who want the education able to afford it.

[lakerman1]

Girl, listen carefully.
The President of Butler Community College met with the county executive last fall, and offered to establish a community college center in Erie, just as it has done in three other locations. And the cost to erie county was zero. Let me repeat that. THE COST TO ERIE COUNTY WAS ZERO!
The county executive said he was not interested!

Erie county government could pay for 2000 full-timme students at a butler operation in erie, if it wanted to do so, and spend less money than if it builds a new community college instead.
The financial grants could come from the gambling
revenue, and 2000 students, based on financial need, could go for FREE. FREE!
Indiana County goverment sets aside scholarship money for residents who attend the Indiana County Community College Center, run by Westmoreland County Community College. Erie county could do the same.

The county executive and erie county council
are taking us on a bigger ride than the new rollercoaster at Waldameer. This is an absolute joke.

[Steve A J]

lakerman1 wrote:

Girl, listen carefully.
The President of Butler Community College met with the county executive last fall, and offered to establish a community college center in Erie, just as it has done in three other locations. And the cost to erie county was zero. Let me repeat that. THE COST TO ERIE COUNTY WAS ZERO!
The county executive said he was not interested!
Erie county government could pay for 2000 full-timme students at a butler operation in erie, if it wanted to do so, and spend less money than if it builds a new community college instead.
The financial grants could come from the gambling
revenue, and 2000 students, based on financial need, could go for FREE. FREE!
Indiana County goverment sets aside scholarship money for residents who attend the Indiana County Community College Center, run by Westmoreland County Community College. Erie county could do the same.
The county executive and erie county council
are taking us on a bigger ride than the new rollercoaster at Waldameer. This is an absolute joke.

Your thinking is why crack dealers get rich. A promise of something for cheap and then they want more and more of your money.

When you see a sign that says "No money down", do you really think it's free?

Yes, going with Butler would have required no money down BUT the cost per student TO THE COUNTY would have been about $3000 for the first year. Then raises each year. Plus money later for a campus.

Erie County would have had very little say on budgets and classes offered.

[lakerman1]

Steve AJ - Try to pay attention here.

A community college, for residents of that county, charges 30 % of the tuition to the student, the county pays 30%, and the state pays 40%.
If Butler CC had a center here, the student pays 60%, the state pays 40%, and erie county would not pay a penny if it did not want to do so. I showed how Indiana county handles that. They budget for the students who most need the assistance.ERIE COUNTY COULD HAVE THE CC CENTER FOR FREE! That's why other counties have invited Butler CC to set up centers.

A student of modest family means would receive a pell grant and a state grant, which would cover the $5000 tuition per year for a butler cc center.

A new CC takes about 5 years to be fully accredited. Butler CC accreditation travels with it to Erie immediately.

Take a look at butler cc programs. They are well-established, with an excellent administrative team to set up a center here. Community colleges respond to need. If there is a market for something, and students, they will offer the program.

They could rent the Villa Maria former college admin building at a relatively cheap rate - not much more than the pizza man county exec wants to pay Family First for land rent - and the commitment would be for 5 years at villa,(an excellent location, by the way) rather than 30 years. And who is stupid enough to build a campus on rented property? Are we that dense in Erie?

Look at the funding formula again, Steve AJ. The counties with butler cc centers have no financial requirements or obligations.

We will spend 6 or 7 million dollars a year that could have been spent on other projects, so that the county executive will be back in his catering business, and selling pizza balls to schools, and we will have a white elephant on our hands, with the local pols on the cc payroll.

We never learn.
1980s cc - failure
1990s camtech - failure
We're working on failure number 3.

[Lori]

Since when has college ever been free? or cheap? i went to college 1993, paid $12,000 per year tuition and have went back in small doses to be able to afford it, thats life people, nothing comes for free, especially a good education! Why does this surpise people? The cost to fund a college for its professors and staff is outta this world because most have their phd or doctrine to teach!
Why does everyone want something for nothing?
If you want a great paying job, you have to pay for the schooling to get the skills for that job! Period, you can't get something for nothing!!! Unless you are on welfare then they will provide you with funding to get an education to get a better job, but thats only for your 1st degree, then your on your own!! and there are stipulations to that as well...
Do or don't its your choice, go to college , get the big paying jobs, or don't....
but give others the chance to advance their education if they so choose... it is all about choice!

[Lori]

Community College on the Horizon
Following a year of work by the Erie Community Foundation and dozens of concerned organizations and individuals, Erie County Executive Mark DiVecchio and Erie County Council have unanimously committed to developing a community college for the Northwest PA region.

“In line with our strategic grant making, which concentrates on systemic problems, The Erie Community Foundation believes enhancing access to post-secondary educational and training opportunities is a critical need in this region,” said Michael Batchelor, president of The Erie Community Foundation.“To compete in a global economy, business leaders need a skilled work force. Jobs that require postsecondary education account for 42% of projected new job growth from 2000-2010.”

[Lori]

A community college will provide low income citizens with the opportunity to gain the needed education and skills for a career, provide the needed skilled workforce, and reduce the continuously rising cost of county government's required human services.

“Each taxpayer dollar invested in a community college yields $3 in benefits for regional economic development and growth,” Batchelor said.“In fact, increasing a state’s average level of schooling by one year can increase economic growth by 5 to 15 percent.”

The County of Erie retained the services of Dr. David Pierce, former president of the American Association of Community Colleges, as a consultant. Dr. Pierce, who is one of the most experienced community college consultants in the country, will assist in the preparation of the required application to the Pennsylvania State Board of Education requesting authorization to sponsor a community college for this region. This application is due on June 30, 2008.

“Higher levels of education lead to higher earnings, higher levels of health care, and higher levels of civic participation, including community service, voting and charitable giving,” Batchelor said.“The greatest benefit of higher education is better opportunities for the next generation.”

[Lori]

National Profile of Community Colleges:
Number of Community Colleges: 1,157
Enrollment:
11.6 million students
46% of all U.S. undergraduates
45% of first-time freshmen
58% women; 42% men
62% part time; 38% full time
(full time = 12 + credit hours)
Student Profile:
47% of black undergraduates
56% of Hispanic
48% of Asian/Pacific Islander
57% of Native American
Average student age - 29 years
Students Receiving Financial Aid:
Any aid - 37.8%
Federal Grants - 17.2%
State aid - 10.2%
Federal loans - 7.0%
Tuition and Fees:
$2,076 average annual tuition
at public community colleges
Statistics from National Profile of Community Colleges: Trends and Statistics, Third Edition (2000), available from Community College Press and excerpted from the AACC’s website.

[Lori]

The Northwest Pennsylvania Community College, through the VanAmburg Group, now has an informational website, NWPCC, enabling you to keep abreast with ongoing communications, research, public meetings, how the application process is progressing and the ability to participate on the blog. Be sure to register to receive email updates.

[Mark]

Steve the cost to Erie county with he new CC is going to be double what butler asked....

Steve A J wrote:

<quoted text>
Your thinking is why crack dealers get rich. A promise of something for cheap and then they want more and more of your money.
When you see a sign that says "No money down", do you really think it's free?
Yes, going with Butler would have required no money down BUT the cost per student TO THE COUNTY would have been about $3000 for the first year. Then raises each year. Plus money later for a campus.
Erie County would have had very little say on budgets and classes offered.

[lakerman1]

I watched the president of butler county community college do an interview on the news last fall, and he said very clearly that Erie County government would not have to pay a penny. I don't know where you are getting your information, Mark, but you are wrong. Are you spreading misinformation intentionally?

And Lori, why are you pimping out this pierce guy? He is being paid about 100,000 dollars to fill out an application to the state. And the state has already rejected the stupid plan to use area colleges for teaching the classes. The first two community colleges in Erie county went broke, and when the second one -camtech- went under, the county was stuck with a 2 million dollar loan, and the state was stuck for 16 million dollars in fake reimbursements. both of those earlier colleges contracted out the teaching.In addition to all that, the location of the new community college is insane. let's add to the congestion of upper peach, and put the thing where people won't have an easy time to get to it.
Poor people, people without access to a car - you people are geniuses, erie county covernment.

[Laffing]

Bravo ErieCitizen and lakerman1.

Well said.