Erie is dead broke
Posted in the Erie Forum
#1 Jul 15, 2013
5 economic development agencies in Erie - What have they done?
Mayor gives City city plans to sewer department 6 years ago. What have they accomplished so far?
What has been done to stop the unions from driving business out of Erie?
What is anybody doing to fix this city besides posting in forums? CRANK?
Does anyone have a plan to turn this bankrupt city around that can be implemented immediately?
#2 Jul 15, 2013
Erie is morally and mentally bankrupt too
#3 Jul 15, 2013
There is nothing that can be done or ever will be done. The mass population is now just too dumb to be effective toward real and positive change. They have grown so accustomed to accepting their downward movement that they actually sit back and expect more. Collectively shrugging their shoulders and preparing to re-tighten their already constrained belts is all Erie knows how to do.
You can devise whatever game plan you wish but the recovery train has left the station years ago and will never return. I firmly believe that Erie's destiny is to serve as a sad and cautioning example of failure to other American communities. Don't allow complacency and ignorance that ruined Erie to infest your city or town lest you suffer the same slow rot that Erie citizens seem perfectly content with. OUCH !!! But it's true.
#5 Jul 15, 2013
shitz what youz talking bout ho i gots me a good bizzness on 23 n hollad run thru
#6 Jul 16, 2013
No, no one has an immediate turn around plan. Nor, it seems does anyone want one. Just today the ETN is lamenting the fact that no one is coming forward with a comprehensive bay front plan.
Fact is, few even know what a comprehensive plan entails, let alone how to develop or implement one.
A while back a group called Envision Erie emerged, and instantly morphed into a group whose main objective was more public transportation.(Meanwhile near empty buses can be found all over the city.)Those attempting to bring up issues like synergistic development as part of comprehensive land utilization plans were ignored, primarily because the majority of those attending didn't know the meaning of the words, and didn't seem interested in learning. They already had an agenda. To my knowledge, the group doesn't meet anymore, and some have gone on to call themselves All Aboard Erie. During all of this, the only City Councilman that was offering any leadership on the subject, resigned in frustration.
Unfortunately, attending those meetings and attempting to participate was essentially a waste of time. No one wanted to listen or learn.
Just one of many examples over the years.
As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water.....
#7 Jul 16, 2013
I graduated from college more than 10 years ago. I came back to Erie after graduation. Over the last decade, I have watched businesses leave Erie on a steady basis.
Worse, I have watched all of these big plans be announced and lauded: The Koehler Brewery Square, the phantom juice plant, the Presque Isle Casino that was supposed to be built in the city at the old IP plant, revitalizing downtown with luxury condo living, Parade Street grocery stores, community colleges, turning Erie into a tourist destination, etc.
I've also heard all these reports and seen all of these committed formed: Bosworth report, Destination Erie, Erie Together Poverty meetings, etc. But in spite of all of this, nothing is being done/changing and this city continues to get worse.
Just a lot of sh it talking and hot air being blown around.
#8 Jul 16, 2013
"No, no one has an immediate turn around plan. Nor, it seems does anyone want one. Just today the ETN is lamenting the fact that no one is coming forward with a comprehensive bay front plan".
CRANK: YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN AS USUAL AND ARE UNAWARE OF THE FACTS. A detailed turnaround plan foe the city was written and given to the Mayor 6 years ago. I was on the committe that helped write it.
The final plan was given to the Mayor who gave it to someone at the sewer department to do the implementation. According to PA state law the only people that can turnaround the city of Erie is city employees. That is saying city officials who craeted this mess in Erie by law are the only ones that can fix it. NO OUTSIDERS with 30 years experience in turning companies around could not be asked to fix the city of Erie.
Follow-up with the sewer departments implementation plan was a joke. That person stated all he was going to do with the plan is throw it back to the Mayor for implementation.
Erie's Mayor cannot do a turnaround because he is stonewalled by the unions. The sewer department never did a turnaround of the city that was asked by the Mayor to implement. The unions don't want ant turnaround plan. 5 economic development groups paid by tax dollars are clueless not only on how to turn the City of Erie around but have not done anything to stimulate economic activity except to support a conference center on the bay that is sinking and a casino. THAT IS NOT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. Erie's manufacturing has been gone for years. GE is moving out. Who's next.
CRANK: Since you bash everyoness comments on these boards, what is your plan to turn the city around? Tell us all what you would do i.e. to cut expenses, get out of things the city should not be in, selling assets immediately and getting the city back to at least break even. What is your paln to stop the bleeding? What is your plans to craete jobs in Erie? FYI - a bayfront indoor beach was discussed with the Mayor and economic development groups 6 years ago that could be built on the bayfront. An indoor beach, clean water, restuarants would help bring buisiness to the convention center. No response from the Mayor or the 5 economic development groups. Not even a visit to an exciting very profitable one to do any due dilligence. Guess the Erie economic development groups did not have any money to travel to check it out in another stste.
#10 Jul 16, 2013
You were on that committee eh? Must not be too proud of your efforts since you won't leave your real name.
All the ideas in the world won't help Erie unless someone opens their pocketbook to invest. Who would invest in Erie? The town is slowly turning into East Detroit thanks to Detroit's "reformed" inmates being relocated here. Those who get here or are already here are on welfare and it's spiraling out of control. Abolish welfare and Erie MAY have a chance. You cannot expect anyone to invest in erie when there is obviously no money here.
#12 Jul 16, 2013
Zugzwang: I don't need to give my name. If you want to see the report to the Mayor and our input be glad to provide it to you.
"There is nothing that can be done or ever will be done. The mass population is now just too dumb to be effective toward real and positive change."
Forget about the masses its the elected officials and 5 economic development groups that have failed Erie. None of them have REAL experience in turning anything around let alone the City of Erie. They have already proved they have failed miserably at their jobs.
The problem is no one in Erie is willing to get into the trenches and fix things that need to be fixed. The most ironic thing is the same city officials that got Erie into this mess (according to the PA laws are the only people that can try to fix it.
Not one elected official is willing to go public with the city's problems, institute a time frame needed to fix these problems and get jump in the fire to fix them.
No one is challenging the Mayor to get the unions in a room and give them the fax of life. No one is willing to expose who is really causing the problems. I belive the masses are not as stupid as you think. They entrust city officials to fix things they have no experience (zero) in fixing.
#14 Jul 16, 2013
I'm not sure what plan you are talking about, but if it is the one I think it is, it wasn't ever going anywhere, and really wasn't something the city wanted, rather it was pushed onto them. Without buy in, no plan is going to work.
You are right, it is the elected officials who are responsible for implementing any plan. However, they are never going to implement anything without community buy in from the public, and unfortunately in Erie, you are right again, that includes the city unions with vested interest in maintaining the status quo until the very last penny is spent.
However there are any number of positive examples of metropolitan areas using a comprehensive planning approach to implement synergistic redevelopment in augmenting existing strengths. I would point to Baltimore's Inner Harbor (although they are currently having difficulty maintaining the progress they made.) Boston's Back Bay and the development around their convention center, San Diego's waterfront. I would contrast those with what I would perceive as negative planning and development in places like Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Washington DC.
I personally believe that a combination of the processes used in San Diego (waterfront development) and Boston's Back Bay area (northern climate) would hold the best potential for Erie.
I would also suggest that there has to be several components to it:
1. Comprehensive in nature. It must include land utilization plans consistent with synergistic uses that play off each other.
2. It has to include a streamlining of the permitting & regulatory processes.
3. It has to increase the tax base.
#15 Jul 16, 2013
The trurnaround plan was asked for by Mayor Sinnot. You are missing the point. The public gave their input 6 years ago. According to the state regulation the "omly" people that can implement a turnarounf plan are the city officials. No outsiders allowed in. Six years have gone by since the "City Turnaround Plan". To date nothing has been done by the sewer department who the Mayor asked to implement the plan.That is the whole problem. The people that got Erie into this financial mess (according to the law) are the only ones allowed to fix anything. Fixing something you were directly involved with is not going to happen because city employees don't want to have to be accountatble for their actions. If they were to be accountable, they would be fired.
FYI - The proposed indoor beach program included an acquarium and rain forest. Just like the one at Moody Gardens in Galveston, Texas
#17 Jul 16, 2013
Sounds like an awesome plan you had there. It's just a shame that it is left to wither on the vine. Just out of curosity, why was this left to the Sewer Dept. to get the ball rolling??
#18 Jul 16, 2013
It's where a lot of things that get "flushed" in Erie end up. I believe it would be an accurate description to call this plan an 'Advisory Committee' activity, as opposed to an officially commissioned plan. Not that it would have made any difference in the outcome.
There have been an number of studies and consultant reports done on the bay front area for decades, going back to at least the Tullio administration. Some in conjunction with the Port Authority, some not. Some by the Authority with no direct city involvement. There were a few reports, very few, that attempted to go beyond the bay front and encompass the entire city relative to land utilization and zoning, of which parts were cherry picked.
Relative to the bay front specifically however, there is enough documented evidence to suggest that the library and the convention center and hotel are mis-located. There simply is not enough acres below the bluff to create really good non residential synergy, and still keep it on the tax rolls. That was established back when the county decided to build a new library down there in support of a city generated agenda, supposedly because the old one was falling down.(Probably now in better shape than the new one.)
The plans for the bay front that made the most sense were residential centered, and would have added millions in new taxable properties with fantastic views. The only thing that came from that was Niagara Pier Condos. Much of the remaining property is tax exempt (Liberty Park, Convention Center, Library, etc.) That development proposal was trashed by the sport fishermen who claim the bay front as their own, and it has cost the city tons of potential.
The convention center and hotel belonged up near the ball park and Warner to create an entertainment, convention district like other cities have done, with meeting space, housing, dining and entertainment all within walking distance, so that someone attending a convention from out of town would not need to rent a car to get from housing to meeting to dinner to entertainment after the work day. Again, like San Diego, Boston and others have done. Several blocks of blighted properties needed to be obtained and made available for redevelopment. But there was no public support, so the politicians, who knew better, opted to do nothing.
The problem with the aquarium idea is that Erie does not draw enough out of town visitors to support it, and Erie, as the Zoo has constantly shown, would not generate enough local repeat business to keep it viable. It would end up being another 'regional asset' in need of public operational subsidy to keep it functioning, at the expense of better use for the money. Comparing Erie to Galveston Texas is not realistic, given the northern climate's negative impact on tourism a good portion of the year. No one could make the connection between skiing in New York and visiting an aquarium on the Erie bay front in January, any better than they did in demanding a 250 room convention center hotel that is never full.
#19 Jul 16, 2013
Great question. Why did the Mayor give the turnaround plan to the sewer department to implemennt the plan? What experience does the sewer department have to qualify them to turn the City of Erie around.
The Mayor is an attorney. Attorneys are not qualified to do a turnaround. No idea why he gave it to the sewer department but he did.
#20 Jul 16, 2013
Everyone can continue to go around and around with this but when it all settles one thing is for certain. Erie will always slide further down the path of ruin. There is simply not enough brain power and energy here to turn the ship around. Nor is there the desire to do so by the masses.
As a community, Erie people believe that the solutions always lie at the feet of others, never themselves. Therefore there is no reason to change habits, just point fingers and expect someone else to make things better. The citizenry here has made it very clear that they would rather stay on the road to destruction if it means putting in greater collective efforts toward improvement. That effort thing, that change thing, Erie folk always think they do enough already. That's why Erie will never recover. That's why Erie will serve as a sad example how not to be.
#21 Jul 16, 2013
The Mayor gave one of his right-hand men the position of looking into each city department and coming up with cost saving plans or improved city functions.
His name is Mark Kwitowski, the assistant bureau chief at the Waste Water Treatment Plant,and he did nothing for over a year and then turned in a plan to do nothing.
The Mayor then said he did what he could and that's that.
Plain old Erie politics.
#22 Jul 16, 2013
The bayfront should be a combination of the las vegas strip, the mall of america, atlantic city, ft. lauderdale, orlando, the inner habor, chicago pier, times square, and any and all other souless tourist traps in the homogenous states of america.
it should have all kinds of stores and restaurants and aquariums, and museums, and PARKING. and the parkway should be two lanes in each direction. AT LEAST. Thanks PennDOT - asleep at the wheel. Get marlin coon on the job already.
we'll move the sh*tplant, port of erie, shipyard, and anything else that the Fairview snobs and Ed F. Kisshole don't like to Ashtabula.
BTW, the entire waterfront sucks because of the library. F*cked the whole place up. AND was the reason Niagara Pier took 15 years to have its overpriced, plastic and chipboard units sold. That or Robbie Robison.
At least we got the mf fireworks back! Thanks Bill Garvey.
Is the Niagara in town? Or is it out making money?
#24 Jul 17, 2013
Emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt
#25 Jul 17, 2013
Bill: I agree. The library needs to be moved off the water and an acquarium needs to go in its place. A glass pyramid with an indoor beach and resturants needs to be built on the lovely "brownfield" to the left of the convention center. Out of town visitors would come to the indoor beach, stay at the hotel and hold regional conferences all in the same area. You are not going to attract vistors to a hotel with an environmental problem right next door an nothing in the immediate area to do. For additional space, I would move the Chamber out of their plush office building and put them into a smaller office closer to the park downtown. Based on their performance, they do no need such lavish space. All of this was suggested 6 years ago to all the economic groups and the Mayor. No one did anything.
I gave them the name of Moody Gardens in Galveston as an example. Galveston was a very depressed area for many years. It is very succesful today. I showed the Mayor and the economic groups the numbers showing thousands of jobs that were created and the millions of visitors that come each year to Moody Gardens in Galveston. Existing management was even willing to come up to Erie to help get it started. Not one person at the Chamber, Mayors office or any of the economic development groups looked into it. Claiming they did not have any budget to travel to Texas.
With all the empty abandoned buildings on 12th street I suggested starting new business incubators in each building to generate new start-up businesses in the old abandoned buildings. That was also suggested to the economic development groups but nothing was done. I asked for years for a list of abandoned building owners to present the idea. Erie economic development never could provide a list. I found that basic requests could not be handled by the economic development groups.
Bill, we met years ago. If you would like to help fix Erie's problems, please let me know. The municipal channel agreed to allow me a Erie Businessmen to hold town meetings and get the word out to the public and potential investors.
#26 Jul 17, 2013
Stop trying to make Erie a tourist destination! It is tired and played out! Try bringing hi tech jobs to Erie, a community college to train people for the few decent jobs left in Erie (hospitals, etc). Then, when the citizens of Erie are working, spending money, buying houses, cars, etc, THEN can we put a little effort into building up Erie's "tourist attractions".
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