Tiered dues plan in CRR .....what are your thoughts, let's discuss pros and cons

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seriously

Seffner, FL

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#1
Apr 15, 2012
 
I started this thread because the proposed tiered dues plan has become a very hot topic in CRR. There are very strong feelings pro and con on this plan....but the discussions need to start now because they will have a town hall meeting in May and you will want your questions in mind before you go there so you can be prepared.

The plan is mentioned in the newsletter below

http://coosawattee.net/wp-content/uploads/201...
Part timer in CRRA

Fort Lauderdale, FL

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#2
Apr 15, 2012
 
I find it hard to justify any change in the dues structure. When I, and all others purchased in CRR, we new exactly what the charges were going to be. Now with this structured plan being proposed, we are trying to help those who have a much smaller investment in CRR. I feel that if we are going to have a vote on this matter, there should be some type of balance applied in the value of each vote. I have almost $300,000 invested in my property and have the same vote as someone who might have less than $1000 in theirs. With the number of un-developed lots greater than developed, it doesn't require one to be a rocket scientist to predict the outcome.

Since: Nov 11

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#3
Apr 15, 2012
 
here is my thoughts on the matter.

I am not against my dues being raised if everyone in the community is getting their dues raised also. That is how we bought in here and we all signed the same agreement. We can't make decisions on blind faith and that is what this plan is. The committe is saying trust us.....well the committee is made up of people like you and I. We need experts to come up with a plan that has been proven and researched and the tiered dues committee are NOT experts they are volunteers that were given a job to do and this is all they could come up with

Since: Apr 12

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#4
Apr 15, 2012
 

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Here are my thoughts and these are facts.

1. Emerald Capital owns approximately 350 lots per Gilmer County tax records and have not been paying their dues for at least 2 years.

2. Flint Timber owns it looks like 350 or so lots according to Gilmer County tax records. Flint Timber has not been paying their dues for at least 2 years.

3. Flint Timber is in bankruptcy. They have been in Chapter 11 but recently judge converted to Chapter 7 since Flint had never filed a bankruptcy plan which is required under Chapter 11. After converting to Chapter 7 there was a hearing where Flint decided to come up with a plan for Chapter 11. There is another hearing shceduled for late May to entertain allowing to stay under Chapter 11.

4. Not sure if Emerald is in bankruptcy or not since I do not know whate state Emerald is from.

5. I have asked over and over again for any research regarding the tiered dues plan be published to the owners. This has not been done because there is none. Just opinions. Opinions are not facts and what I have said is all avialble online if you do the research.

6. Flint Timber not only wants the tiered dues but they are also wanting re-platting for the reduction of dues, this is found in their bankruptcy paper work.

7. Flint Timber has already deeded over to CRR 150 lots, a large portion of them not buildable this was done to avoid not paying dues on them.

Now why in the world you would believe or try to sell people that if you reduced the dues owed by undeveloped lot owners they would start paying their dues. If approximately 700 undeveloped lots are owned by owners that are in bankruptcy or on the brink of it those owners will not be paying anytime soon. this is common sense.

So if they do tiered dues the way they plan and reduce the dues of undeveloped lot owners and then the undevelped lot owners still don't pay What new plan are they going to come up with?

So explain to me in cold hard facts why and how tiered dues is going to stabilize dues. Seems to me it is just shifting the burden.

By the way I don't know about Emerald but flint has not been paying taxes on property, not sure how many, either.

Seems to me the first question to ask before even starting this plan is how many of the undevelped lot owners are paying the taxes on the property. If they don't pay the taxes of around $50.00 per year they are not going to pay dues no matter how low they are.

Remember Flint bought their lots or large portion of them when another company went belly up. Point being they bought them dirt cheap. They also are still trying to sell them for pre bust prices.

Emerald Capital, from what has been said in the past has mortgages on their lots so they are a different matter.
Newport Road Warrior

Warner Robins, GA

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#5
Apr 15, 2012
 

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I am sure I will not be popular on this site, but from what I have read and heard, this is a good idea, folks. Now, for the person above who has issues with property value, if my home is only a 90k home, and your's is on the river or have a place w/ a view, you get more of a say? That sounds like you are saying the rich create the value and we don't want to stress them? Seems to me if you live on the river, you should pay more than me, who lives on a wooded lot with no creek, a steep grade and a view of a dirt road. So what's the problem you are having? You want a greater vote so you can pay as little as possible and the guy like me pays as much as possible? This is not right. And if it is, the little guy should pay far less, and the guy on the river should pay far more. No one is giving you a 100% guarantee. What kind of experts do you want? Didn't our lawyer have input? How about Durgin? If they didn't they should have. What kind of experts do you propose? I believe if you look inside here, you will see many people who are extremely smart and able to work through a problem. Besides a large portion of the vacant lot owners cant vot because they are late on paying. Give these people a chance to present what they have before you are quick to kill. What other ideas do you have?
mountainlady56

Talking Rock, GA

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#6
Apr 15, 2012
 

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I totally agree that everyone that bought, whether they were improved/unimproved, one or 100 lots, knew exactly what was expected of them, when they bought, as far as dues were concerned.
I think to put the brunt on the developed property owner, whose TAXES are also considerably higher, is wrong.
I think the dues should be left as they are. To start with, if I'm not mistaken, this was voted by the BOD to be tabled until 2013, and it's been back as a hot topic for at least 6 months or more.
If Flint Timber is not paying their taxes, those lots will be sold, eventually at a tax sale, on the steps of the courthouse. Then, the new owners can pay dues, according to our rules and regulations, as expected of them.
mountainlady56

Talking Rock, GA

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#7
Apr 15, 2012
 

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Newport Road Warrior wrote:
I am sure I will not be popular on this site, but from what I have read and heard, this is a good idea, folks. Now, for the person above who has issues with property value, if my home is only a 90k home, and your's is on the river or have a place w/ a view, you get more of a say? That sounds like you are saying the rich create the value and we don't want to stress them? Seems to me if you live on the river, you should pay more than me, who lives on a wooded lot with no creek, a steep grade and a view of a dirt road. So what's the problem you are having? You want a greater vote so you can pay as little as possible and the guy like me pays as much as possible? This is not right. And if it is, the little guy should pay far less, and the
guy on the river should pay far more. No one is giving you a 100% guarantee. What kind of experts do you want? Didn't our lawyer have input? How about Durgin? If they didn't they should have. What kind of experts do you propose? I believe if you look inside here, you will see many people who are extremely smart and able to work through a problem. Besides a large portion of the vacant lot owners cant vot because they are late on paying. Give these people a chance to present what they have before you are quick to kill. What other ideas do you have?
You had your choice of what was available, when you bought here. Developed/lot to be developed/lot to remain undeveloped/near the river/mountain view......you made the choice. You agreed to pay dues for the lot you purchased, where you purchased it. That's the bottom line.
CRRresident

Atlanta, GA

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#8
Apr 15, 2012
 

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Sounds good to me, we will see our dues go up $100 and $80 of that will once again be because more people will not pay. What makes you think a vacant lot is worth $628 a year? Did you ever think these vacant lot owners that still pay might just be keeping the developed lot owner from paying more. Maybe it is us that don't want to lose our welfare money.

Since: Apr 12

Seffner, FL

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#9
Apr 15, 2012
 

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CRRresident wrote:
Sounds good to me, we will see our dues go up $100 and $80 of that will once again be because more people will not pay. What makes you think a vacant lot is worth $628 a year? Did you ever think these vacant lot owners that still pay might just be keeping the developed lot owner from paying more. Maybe it is us that don't want to lose our welfare money.
I just want to thank my next door neighbor who only has one lot with a home on it....he will be paying more now just for me. I am one of those lucky ones that if this passes I will be paying less because I own the lot next to mine. I have a beautiful view, no one will build next to me because I own the lot and my neighbor is going to pick up the extra amount that I won't have to pay now if this passes. Thank you Fred, sorry but I want to pay less even though you have less. I will be paying less, getting the same vote as I had before. I will still get the extra amenity cards so I can bring all my friends in.....Life is good. I know that isn't how it was when we moved in here but hopefully you will be my friend and still watch my property while I'm away.
mountainlady56

Talking Rock, GA

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#10
Apr 15, 2012
 

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CRRresident wrote:
Sounds good to me, we will see our dues go up $100 and $80 of that will once again be because more people will not pay. What makes you think a vacant lot is worth $628 a year? Did you ever think these vacant lot owners that still pay might just be keeping the developed lot owner from paying more. Maybe it is us that don't want to lose our welfare money.
Sorry. I don't buy into that. The lot owners have the same voting rights as the developed lots, they get to use the amenities just like I do, etc. In fact, a lot of people have bought lots in here JUST to get to use the amenities, as there's no YMCA anywhere in the vicinity.
They shouldn't have purchased the lot, if they weren't going to accept the responsibility (dues) that goes along with it. They are free to build at any time upon said lot, or sell it. Nobody's stopping them from doing either.
CRRresident

Atlanta, GA

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#11
Apr 15, 2012
 

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So. Seems as though thia group isn't gonna even go to any of the town hall meetings because you seem as though you are not even considering the benefits. Was talking in my neighborhood and seems like people are thinking this could be good for CRR.
Newport Road Warrior

Loachapoka, AL

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#12
Apr 15, 2012
 

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You are right, CRR resident. Same group of people with the same arguments. No sense in them attending unless they plan a take over. That might be fun to watch. Hope these people dont think that they are hiding who they are. For the most part they are the ones the yahoo group got sick of and threw them off. Now they are planning trips and it is a happy place. I'm going back there. No discussion here and is a waste of time.

Since: Nov 11

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#13
Apr 15, 2012
 

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Newport Road Warrior wrote:
You are right, CRR resident. Same group of people with the same arguments. No sense in them attending unless they plan a take over. That might be fun to watch. Hope these people dont think that they are hiding who they are. For the most part they are the ones the yahoo group got sick of and threw them off. Now they are planning trips and it is a happy place. I'm going back there. No discussion here and is a waste of time.
these are not arguments they are discussion points, why not give us a little of your profound wisdom and share some of your view points....do you even have a view, can you even participate without critisizing.
seriously

Seffner, FL

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#14
Apr 16, 2012
 

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Newport Road Warrior wrote:
You are right, CRR resident. Same group of people with the same arguments. No sense in them attending unless they plan a take over. That might be fun to watch. Hope these people dont think that they are hiding who they are. For the most part they are the ones the yahoo group got sick of and threw them off. Now they are planning trips and it is a happy place. I'm going back there. No discussion here and is a waste of time.
something to consider, and please feel free to dispute where it is needed.
the board formed a committee to come up with a plan that would have a passing (yes) vote, so it had to be designed to make it appealing to the majority of the community by lowering or keeping their dues the same. They did exactly what they were told to do.
Remember the developed lot owners are 30% of the vote (and out of that number you have multiple lot owners that will benefit which brings the percentage down even more).
That leaves 70%(or more)of the vote to the other tiers in addition that leaves 70% to benefit by LOWER dues. Now taking all of that into account it will in fact lower the income of the money that would be coming into our coffers in 2013 when this gets put in place.
I truly am not sure what they were thinking but on May 10th whoever goes to the meeting will find out and at that point, please let the out of towners know. Because alot of us are unable to spend the money or take the time off to come up there. I feel awful that the developed single lot owner were not protected in anyway and not given a chance in @#%% in winning this. I can hear it now...."the owners voted on it". Now we know how these things get passed.

I am sure you can figure out what type of impact this will have on our wonderful community.

The only way we can come out of this with our heads held high is to somehow get this vote halted because of the unfairness of it.
CRRresident

Batesburg, SC

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#16
Apr 16, 2012
 
Why did you who live out of town buy here if you cannot attend any meetings, seem to never come up probably rent your places and reap fianacial gains and spend your time second guessins what may or may not happen in a committe meeting. For people who love this place so much it makes us wonder. Love CRR for what? Money it seems.
There are plenty of dates set to attend. You can't make any of them. Why? Money is a copout. If you have any desire to know the facts you would find a way. Period.
seriously

Seffner, FL

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#17
Apr 16, 2012
 

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CRRresident wrote:
Why did you who live out of town buy here if you cannot attend any meetings, seem to never come up probably rent your places and reap fianacial gains and spend your time second guessins what may or may not happen in a committe meeting. For people who love this place so much it makes us wonder. Love CRR for what? Money it seems.
There are plenty of dates set to attend. You can't make any of them. Why? Money is a copout. If you have any desire to know the facts you would find a way. Period.
I have a desire to know the facts and I always find a way. Period. I have attended meetings at a cost of about 400.00 each meeting and about 18 hours of driving just to attend. I think that you need to be preaching to the ones that live there and never attend the meeting. Actually I don't thing you need to be preaching to anyone.....everyone has their own reasons for not being there and the last I checked I was just required to pay my dues and abide by the rules and I do both. There are several out of towners that own in there and don't even rent their cabins out and they would benefit from this information and they also pay their dues and abide by the rules. Does that make you special or something because you live there and we don't?
To any person who is reading this post most of the people who live in CRR do NOT have an attitude like this person, they are great neighbors who are more than willing to help keep their neighbors informed and there property protected. This person thinks he/she is better than some, but it is obvious what type of individual he/she is.
mountainlady56

Talking Rock, GA

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#18
Apr 16, 2012
 
Newport Road Warrior wrote:
You are right, CRR resident. Same group of people with the same arguments. No sense in them attending unless they plan a take over. That might be fun to watch. Hope these people dont think that they are hiding who they are. For the most part they are the ones the yahoo group got sick of and threw them off. Now they are planning trips and it is a happy place. I'm going back there. No discussion here and is a waste of time.
I live in CRRA, and I plan to attend the townhall meetings and this weekend's BOD meeting. I am a member of the private yahoo group, in good standing, I might add. So is "seriously". I'm discussing the trips on the yahoo groups, and SO is "seriously", in a big way!! It wasn't my intention, and I didn't start this thread, to discuss the tiered dues plan on a public forum. However, I don't think "seriously" (and I know I couldn't) could figure out how to start a private yahoo group. Wanta e-mail us info on that? Would be helpful!
CRRresident

Batesburg, SC

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#19
Apr 16, 2012
 
Attitude appears to be your issue. Pay your dues and abide by the rules no matter what they may be. If this tiered plan is approved by owners you will pay your dues and abide. Good. Amen. End of story. I actually could be your neibor. I live here full time watch out for those on my road am aware when people come and go. It is a great place to live. It would be good for you to do a fact check once in a while. Facts are kind of like mirrors. Depends on how you look at them. Yes those of us who live hee arespecial. We are a part of a real community. Just paying dues and abiding by the rules is all you have to do but being a real community member is a matter of opinion. You say yes, I say not quite.attitude? Your posts here and those of a few others indicate fact deficiency.
seriously

Seffner, FL

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#20
Apr 16, 2012
 
CRRresident wrote:
Attitude appears to be your issue. Pay your dues and abide by the rules no matter what they may be. If this tiered plan is approved by owners you will pay your dues and abide. Good. Amen. End of story. I actually could be your neibor. I live here full time watch out for those on my road am aware when people come and go. It is a great place to live. It would be good for you to do a fact check once in a while. Facts are kind of like mirrors. Depends on how you look at them. Yes those of us who live hee arespecial. We are a part of a real community. Just paying dues and abiding by the rules is all you have to do but being a real community member is a matter of opinion. You say yes, I say not quite.attitude? Your posts here and those of a few others indicate fact deficiency.
If I am deficient in some fact then please enlighten me.
seriously

Seffner, FL

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#21
Apr 16, 2012
 
CRRresident wrote:
Why did you who live out of town buy here if you cannot attend any meetings, seem to never come up probably rent your places and reap fianacial gains and spend your time second guessins what may or may not happen in a committe meeting. For people who love this place so much it makes us wonder. Love CRR for what? Money it seems.
There are plenty of dates set to attend. You can't make any of them. Why? Money is a copout. If you have any desire to know the facts you would find a way. Period.
There are only 2 days, scheduled. A Thursday 2 times on that day and a Saturday. did I miss something

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