Senate approves permanent tax caps

Senate approves permanent tax caps

There are 359 comments on the The Indianapolis Star story from Mar 14, 2008, titled Senate approves permanent tax caps. In it, The Indianapolis Star reports that:

The Indiana Senate voted this morning 40-7 to amend Indiana's constitution to permanently cap property tax bills.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Indianapolis Star.

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ponder this

Indianapolis, IN

#351 Mar 16, 2008
Repentant wrote:
Moved to NWI from Naperville IL to avoid HOA's and outrageous property taxes... should have done my homework better...
Een with a cap we all know they will get the money from us somehwere else, and some. Not just sales taxes. Next we'll get gargae taxes and grill taxes and parting spot taxes. All just to support old greedy men who want more more more. IL taxes weren't so bad. Neither were their policymakers.
the go back to Napierville...that's easy.
John Bates

Rockford, IL

#352 Mar 16, 2008
Ithink the bill is fair , and The mayors all over the state need to stop spending and making sure their wallets are full, they're overpaid and under worked, Only to look out for their few.. friends. Keep up the good work
Honorable Governor Mitch Daniels....
The Redcoats are here

Canton, MI

#353 Mar 17, 2008
Racoon wrote:
<quoted text>
You have chosen to not defend your claim. I'll call that a concession.
Yes, I *do* think it's OK to tax property. It already *is* taxed in other forms: as income and as purchases. Why would it be 'unconstitutional' to tax it in the form of land & buildings?
The constitutional protections of property to which you refer are the protection of private property *rights*. It *doesn't* mean that property is tax-exempt. If it did mean that, how do you explain the 50 states all have property taxes?
The government (for whom I do not work, but which I nevertheless understand and appreciate) provides services to the community --most notably police & fire protection and education-- and needs to raise money from the people to whom those services are rendered. Arguably, those value of those services are greater for those whose property is more valuable, and hence they pay a larger property tax. That's fair.
I am not defending the creaky property tax system Indiana has long suffered under (nor do I defend all government spending); instead, I am very pleased with the legislature's taking long-overdue action to reform the system.
As to your name-calling, read your posts again and pretend you were their target. Wouldn't you find them offensive?("socialist ", "disdain for the flag", etc.)
There isn't any name calling there, unless I hit home with my questions. I didn't know we were having some kind of competition. I have a life. I find you very amusing as that you attempt at being intellectual, however, You dismiss what the constitution says by saying "we already do that." You claim these questions I have asked you impicates me in name calling. OK get ready, this is a question. You are a liberal, aren't you?
Racoon

United States

#354 Mar 17, 2008
In the classical sense, yes. Which makes me a conservative.

You fail to understand or appreciate my observation that "we already do that" [i.e. tax property]. Why would you think a voluntary exchange of property isn't 'property'? Property = a bundle of rights, which includes trade. If you're against taxes on property, you should also be against taxes on sales and on income, as both arise from an exchange of property.)

BTW: you missed on your questions and you failed on your (non-)answer to the one I posed.

Oh, and finally, what makes you suggest that I may not have a life? That reveals a dismissive, prejudicial attitude. What part of "we hold these truths to be self-evident (...) unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" don't you embrace?
Hunt

AOL

#355 Mar 17, 2008
What did the legislation do for farm real estate taxes??? Since the vast majority of land in Indiana is agriculture?
The Redcoats are here

Canton, MI

#356 Mar 17, 2008
Racoon wrote:
In the classical sense, yes. Which makes me a conservative.
You fail to understand or appreciate my observation that "we already do that" [i.e. tax property]. Why would you think a voluntary exchange of property isn't 'property'? Property = a bundle of rights, which includes trade. If you're against taxes on property, you should also be against taxes on sales and on income, as both arise from an exchange of property.)
BTW: you missed on your questions and you failed on your (non-)answer to the one I posed.
Oh, and finally, what makes you suggest that I may not have a life? That reveals a dismissive, prejudicial attitude. What part of "we hold these truths to be self-evident (...) unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" don't you embrace?
Nice try. I am glad you have evaluated everything and you see that you are correct about everything. You have posted that you are correct about everything and anyone who disagrees with you is a name caller or, just isn't as smart as you are. I embrace all tenants of those documents. Why do you quote them now when you openly say it doesn't matter that certain things are unconstitutional, we do them anyway. If you consider yourself a conservative, label yourself anyway you wish. Your earlier posts do not reveal a conservative approach to government. Did I say you do not have a life? No. I stated I have a life. When I asserted that, you felt compelled to defend yourself which, brings me to believe that you may have some issues. Property = a bundle of right? Good day to you. You should just send all your money to the government and then ask them how much you deserve back. If we followed your approach to taxes, there is nothing the government is not allowed to take from its citizens. I have a hard time believing you don't feed off the government somehow. I give you credit for attempt on your last line. If I looked at things the way you do, I could accuse you of calling me a name. I am more secure about my convictions, so your attempts do not rile me.
Racoon

United States

#357 Mar 17, 2008
Interesting how you have moved from taking an offensive stance to a defensive one. Telling.
The Redcoats are here

Canton, MI

#358 Mar 17, 2008
Only you would interpret my response as such. I only defend myself against such things as being accused of calling one names. Go read your posts. Your diatribe is all about defending your opinions. You do not have a good response, so you respond by accusing people of calling names or being defensive. You must have a lot of time to waste. Telling
Ruler

Roanoke, IN

#359 Mar 17, 2008
I hereby declare "The Redcoats are here" the winner of this debate.
Racoon

United States

#360 Mar 17, 2008
James Madison is quoted, on a wall of the Jefferson Memorial, "just as a man has a right in property, so can it be said he has a property in his right"

Whether you believe it or not, property IS a bundle of rights. Property and rights are inseparable. Ask someone learned in the law and give it some more thought.

---
"Only you", "socialist", "disdain for the flag", "diatribe", "liberal", "I have a life". All names or implied insults you have levelled at me. But they're only machinations of your mind, reflecting upon you, not me. None of them pertinent to the matter of property taxes.

And not a one of your posts provided an answer to my question of where in the U.S. Constitution are property taxes outlawed. Nor have you explained how, if they are unconstitutional, each of the 50 states has them?(I guess Ruler overlooked that uncomfortable fact in his judgment.)

Is this a standard of discussion you would allow of your child? I hope not.
The Redcoats are here

Canton, MI

#361 Mar 17, 2008
Racoon wrote:
James Madison is quoted, on a wall of the Jefferson Memorial, "just as a man has a right in property, so can it be said he has a property in his right"
Whether you believe it or not, property IS a bundle of rights. Property and rights are inseparable. Ask someone learned in the law and give it some more thought.
---
"Only you", "socialist", "disdain for the flag", "diatribe", "liberal", "I have a life". All names or implied insults you have levelled at me. But they're only machinations of your mind, reflecting upon you, not me. None of them pertinent to the matter of property taxes.
And not a one of your posts provided an answer to my question of where in the U.S. Constitution are property taxes outlawed. Nor have you explained how, if they are unconstitutional, each of the 50 states has them?(I guess Ruler overlooked that uncomfortable fact in his judgment.)
Is this a standard of discussion you would allow of your child? I hope not.
*Yawn* Gosh for someone who is so right, you sure are trying awfully hard to prove it. I do have to admit I have indulged myself a little because I find your assertions of name calling laughable. I have already answered your "constitutional" question. Maybe if you read my posts 15 more times while trying for a rebuttal, you will find the answer.
Rest easy, you know you are right and you are the only one who knows you are right. The questions I asked of you were because if you are a socialist or a liberal it has a impact on how you view the subject we were discussing, property taxes. I do question why you would be concerned about how I would direct discussions with my children. LOL. By the way, you never answered the questions, you just accused me of name calling. You only took the questions I asked of as insults or name calling because you haven't had the ability to defend your words.
Good Day!
The Redcoats are here

Canton, MI

#362 Mar 17, 2008
Although it is amusing that you started by ridiculing me for quoting Madison, you in turn while debating me, use him as a resource to back up your opinion of property taxes.
Below is the complete Madison quote. His actual words:
"As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights. Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions."
-- James Madison, National Gazette essay, March 27, 1792
Note that he says a man has a right to his property, a little different than your interpretation in my opinion.
Racoon

United States

#363 Mar 17, 2008
Thanks for finding that Madison quote.(I was relying on memory from 13 years ago.)

I was simply using it to illustrate that property and rights are *inseparable*. So my equation of "bundle of rights" with "property" is correct -even supported by Madison- yet you dismissed it.

Despite your claim to the contrary, you still haven't explained how how property taxes are unconstitutional. Nor have you offered any clarification of your assertion, in case I misinterpreted it.

btw: I don't intentionally yawn in people's faces to communicate a disregard for them or what they have to say. You've done it twice, now. It's impolite, wouldn't you agree? Y'know, it kind of feels like you're trampling on my First Amendment right.
LeeJay

South Bend, IN

#364 Mar 17, 2008
Big WHOOPTEE DO. What the hell were they doing three and half years ago? This is an election year people, "a good deed today would have been a better deed 31/2 years ago!" Ditch B!tch!
The Redcoats are here

Canton, MI

#365 Mar 17, 2008
Racoon wrote:
Thanks for finding that Madison quote.(I was relying on memory from 13 years ago.)
I was simply using it to illustrate that property and rights are *inseparable*. So my equation of "bundle of rights" with "property" is correct -even supported by Madison- yet you dismissed it.
Despite your claim to the contrary, you still haven't explained how how property taxes are unconstitutional. Nor have you offered any clarification of your assertion, in case I misinterpreted it.
btw: I don't intentionally yawn in people's faces to communicate a disregard for them or what they have to say. You've done it twice, now. It's impolite, wouldn't you agree? Y'know, it kind of feels like you're trampling on my First Amendment right.
Only you could spin it to make it appear that you are right. Being impolite to someone who believes property taxes are OK is expressing my First Amendment right. You still have your right to the First Amendment. You also have a right to think you are correct about things when you are wrong. Utilizing our logic, even if it is unconstitutional to prohibit you your right to the First Amendment, it is OK because it has already been done.
Good Evening.
The Redcoats are here

Canton, MI

#366 Mar 17, 2008
*typo* It should read utilizing "your" logic.
Carney Likens

Indianapolis, IN

#367 Mar 17, 2008
How is 30-40% reduction in tax going to help those who saw their taxes increase 100-200%? The problem is not the tax rate. It is with assessments. Will there be a reassessments
C H Likens

Indianapolis, IN

#368 Mar 17, 2008
This plan didn't really resolve anything nor permanently settle the issue. It's another loosely applied bandaid. The real problem is assessed values. The real solution is to PERMANENTKY ABOLISH ALL PROPERTY TAXES. It is illegal and unconstitutional.
North East Indiana

AOL

#369 Mar 18, 2008
Like my dad said back in the late 50s IF WE DONT STOP ELECTING LAWYERS AND DOCTERS IN OUR GOVERNMENT WE WILL GET SCREWED. WHICH HAS BEEN HAPENING SINCE THEN AND ARE WE EVER GETTING SCREWED. WE NEED TO CUT ALL ELECTED PEOPLES WAGES IN HALF AND TAKE AWAY THERE RETIREMENTS AND TAKE AWAY THERE MEDICAL. GET THEM ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD AS THE AVERAGE AMERICAN.
LIKE IN ALLEN COUNTY WE HAVE THE HONERS OF PAYING FOR HARRISEN SQUARE A DEAD HORSE AD THE LIBRAIES THE WE REBUILT ALL OF THEM A NON ELECTED PERSON THAT RAISED OUR TAXES. GET RID OF ALL POLITIONS AND PUT SOM COMMEN PEOPLE IN.

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