Is bypass up against Catch-22?

Is bypass up against Catch-22?

There are 60 comments on the The Indianapolis Star story from Jan 25, 2007, titled Is bypass up against Catch-22?. In it, The Indianapolis Star reports that:

Lt. Gov. Becky Skillman says her boss, Gov. Mitch Daniels, faces a Catch-22 in his pursuit of a privately built toll road in Central Indiana.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Indianapolis Star.

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James

Indianapolis, IN

#43 Jan 26, 2007
I live on the southside just outside the loop. Pretty decent neighborhood here. I strongly oppose this road because it will affect my parents.

I also oppose the road because I like Indianpolis as the size it is. Why is growth so important? All it does it get bigger and the costs increase accordingly. I know they are setting their sites on filling the space between 465 and the new road with subdivisions and strip malls. But with this new growth, the inner city slums will grow as well. And you people in the North and East, don't think your road won't be coming next. They will run that loop right around Noblesville to Greenfield, then Indy will annex the whole thing. We can be just like Houston.

So this new road will create a bunch of crappy retail, fast food, and warehouse jobs. The sign will read "Welcome to Indianapolis, a great place to store your s**t."
Jimmy

Valparaiso, IN

#44 Jan 27, 2007
Republican Mitch Hater wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because your ISP says Valpo, does not mean you are from there. Get a clue!
Well I am from Valpo. Don't make assumption. You get a clue.
Sam

United States

#45 Jan 27, 2007
I can't believe what I am reading from some of you people. What is wrong with you guys. At this point there is nothing set in stone. All this governor is trying to do is move this state forward and all we here is leave it a lone and don't change anything. I suppose if you people had it your way there would not be a 465 or 70 or 65 and even 69. Wake up people this is the 21st century. The comerce connector may not be the best sollution, but something has to be done. Traffic on 465 on all sides of town is heavy. At the current rate of growth in and around Indianapolis it will not be long before before you can't even get on 465 without total gridlock and big delays. Come on people instead of complaining about the things this govenor is trying to do why not offer your own ideas or better yet why don't go back to the ways of yesterday and do nothing at all.
Second City

United States

#46 Jan 27, 2007
Jimmy wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with you on mass transit. I've been to Washington DC twice this past year and love their metro subway systems. You rarely need to get in a vehicle to get around DC. It would be nice if Indy and the metropolitan areas could devise and build a similar system.
However, I do believe this road would be good for the majority. I hope they build it soon.
Do you hope "they" build the Illiana "Expressway" through/south of Valpo?
Too Much Gobmint

Schuylkill Haven, PA

#47 Jan 28, 2007
Bennet wrote:
Hoosiers Against Progress
Our Motto:
We don't never Git R Done!
That's one view point. Here's another:

Last words of a redneck - "Hey y'all! Watch this progress!"
Too Much Gobmint

Schuylkill Haven, PA

#48 Jan 28, 2007
Hick wrote:
By the way, I'm not a North-side nut, but rather a nut that made the mistake of building a $350k house next to a cornfield that is now slated for a (yup, you guessed it) production built subdivision of 240 homes on just over 100 acres in Hancock County. Shame on me. As far as I'm concerned, they can built that road right next to my property. I can't imagine my property value will suffer much more than it already has...
Yeah, you have (or had) more money than sense. You shoulda spent more on land, less on the house. Not to point a finger at you, but it irks me to see a hoard of people turn out to protest a development in *their* backyard but are nowhere to be found when it's time to stand up for better planning regs.
Jimmy

Valparaiso, IN

#49 Jan 28, 2007
Second City wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you hope "they" build the Illiana "Expressway" through/south of Valpo?
Yes. Have you traveled US 30 lately through valparaiso, hobart, and merrillville. It's horrible. It's 100 times worse than Kokomo on 31. Try taking SR2 from Valpo to I65. That's terribly clogged up with semis too. The Illiana Expressway would be a huge improvement to this area.
Too Much Gobmint

Schuylkill Haven, PA

#50 Jan 28, 2007
So progress is giving the gov absolute power to engage massive public works - make that a *private* work - which will permanently alter the landscape, have a huge impact on regional development (for good or bad) and is counterintuitive to an obvious approaching moment of truth about energy, the environment, and transportation?

If you think this idea is outside-the-box innovative I suggest you're merely thinking inside a different box. Try this box - existing roadways are congested only during rush hour. If traffic congestion grows there are several alternatives that don't involve the drastic measure of 75 mi. of new terrain tollways. The obvious is adding lanes to I-465, or using the median for rail, or other rail alternaives, or improving Indy Metro, or widening Meridian St, or promoting telecommuting, or all or any combination of these things.

Now for these frequently appearing comments along the lines of "you're just against progress, blah, blah, come up with your own ideas, blah, blah!!" Here they are. And this isn't the first time they've been put forth. You have to get your head out of your biass to notice them.
Driver 1

Independence, KY

#51 Jan 28, 2007
Sam Indianapolis--- what are the odds of Mitch listening to anyone? He is a bull in a china shop. He started out on the wrong foot with his bullying tactics. This road will not help you at all (assuming you live in the metro area). Actually there are several solutions to your problem. Any solution to your problem will have it's distractors! Possibly even you! Enough of the century stuff---who cares what century it is. It is either worth buying into or not and evidently the residents of the effected think not! Maybe the people are right and Mitch is wrong, it's been that way for the last two years. I cannot think of anything he has done to improve this state. He has not impressed me in any fashion. Let's hope that Indiana will survive this guy for another two years and the democrats will find a candidate that will get enough votes to rid the state of Mitch. Political parties do not appear to play a role in this as many angry republican respondents appear to have voted for him. Selfish people appear too like Mitch and more tolerant one's seem to dispise him! Possibly I am misreading these forums but results of the november elections showed that voters wanted to contain and slow up the govenors progress??
Jimmy

Valparaiso, IN

#52 Jan 28, 2007
Too Much Gobmint wrote:
So progress is giving the gov absolute power to engage massive public works - make that a *private* work - which will permanently alter the landscape, have a huge impact on regional development (for good or bad) and is counterintuitive to an obvious approaching moment of truth about energy, the environment, and transportation?
If you think this idea is outside-the-box innovative I suggest you're merely thinking inside a different box. Try this box - existing roadways are congested only during rush hour. If traffic congestion grows there are several alternatives that don't involve the drastic measure of 75 mi. of new terrain tollways. The obvious is adding lanes to I-465, or using the median for rail, or other rail alternaives, or improving Indy Metro, or widening Meridian St, or promoting telecommuting, or all or any combination of these things.
Now for these frequently appearing comments along the lines of "you're just against progress, blah, blah, come up with your own ideas, blah, blah!!" Here they are. And this isn't the first time they've been put forth. You have to get your head out of your biass to notice them.
I agree with you on light rail. But we both know that will never come to fruition. Ultimately, I'd like to see additions to the current highway system, expansions of those already in place, and the highways supplemented with light rail.
with held - WE

Indianapolis, IN

#53 Jan 29, 2007
We need a good "super belt" all the way around Indy. This will save lives, increase business and enable manufacturing to be better. It can also keep hazardous materials out of the states capitol. It is best that we do it now.
Sam

United States

#54 Jan 29, 2007
Driver 1 wrote:
Sam Indianapolis--- what are the odds of Mitch listening to anyone? He is a bull in a china shop. He started out on the wrong foot with his bullying tactics. This road will not help you at all (assuming you live in the metro area). Actually there are several solutions to your problem. Any solution to your problem will have it's distractors! Possibly even you! Enough of the century stuff---who cares what century it is. It is either worth buying into or not and evidently the residents of the effected think not! Maybe the people are right and Mitch is wrong, it's been that way for the last two years. I cannot think of anything he has done to improve this state. He has not impressed me in any fashion. Let's hope that Indiana will survive this guy for another two years and the democrats will find a candidate that will get enough votes to rid the state of Mitch. Political parties do not appear to play a role in this as many angry republican respondents appear to have voted for him. Selfish people appear too like Mitch and more tolerant one's seem to dispise him! Possibly I am misreading these forums but results of the november elections showed that voters wanted to contain and slow up the govenors progress??
First of all I do think there is good chance that the govenor would listen, I have spoke with him on various issues. Secondly I do live in the metro area of Indianapolis and have for over 40 years, and don't plan on leaving any time soon. Lastly, the last thing this state needs is more red ink from the Dems. We had The fake Bayh our now wonderful Senator, then Obannon (may he rip) and then Kernon. All we got for 12 plus years was red ink and no plans for the future! Roads have to be added jobs must be created. People including myself voted for change when they voted for Mitch Daniels now they are saying "we wanted change, but not this much". If you ask me or even if you don't I say he is exactly what this state needed and needs.
Too Much Gobmint

Schuylkill Haven, PA

#55 Jan 29, 2007
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all I do think there is good chance that the govenor would listen, I have spoke with him on various issues. Secondly I do live in the metro area of Indianapolis and have for over 40 years, and don't plan on leaving any time soon. Lastly, the last thing this state needs is more red ink from the Dems. We had The fake Bayh our now wonderful Senator, then Obannon (may he rip) and then Kernon. All we got for 12 plus years
Sorry but four terms of four years each equals 16.
was red ink and no plans for the future!
How quickly they forget the $1 bil surplus, the big auto excise tax cut, all of the projects of the Build Indiana Fund, the property tax exemptions.
Roads have to be added jobs must be created. People including myself voted for change when they voted for Mitch Daniels now they are saying "we wanted change, but not this much".
No we're not. We're saying not this DIRECTION. Mini Me Mitch neglected to tell us what kind of change he had in mind. Decided to wait until after the election to reveal - step by step - that he wants to dismantle government (aka a brain-drain cleansing of state employees), sell off state assests, and strike near-century long convoluted deals without public debate or legislative oversight. And he didn't say his economic development program was going to consist of building more miles of divided lane highways in a state that probably has more per sq. mile than most if not all other states.
If you ask me or even if you don't I say he is exactly what this state needed and needs.
Sorry we don't need a lying fraud.
Carlos

Redwood City, CA

#56 Jan 30, 2007
Too Much Gobmint, your nickname must be some sort of sarcastic comment. I do not mind Mitch's dismantling government, particularly the deal to privatize welfare. I've worked for state and county government, and I can promise you that the culture in a government office consists of NOT being innovative or taking risks for fear of making one's department head look bad. The motto is "no risk, no trouble for me and my job." While I certainly don't agree with Mitch on everything (his idea for a surtax on those making more than $100K was essentially an attempt to punish high achievers), Mitch has certainly attempted to streamline government. Additionally, and Abdul from WXNT said this, we've had more change in the last 24 months than in the past 16 years of Democrat governors' tenures.
Driver 1

Independence, KY

#57 Jan 30, 2007
Carlos Indianapolis---As your wife is applying her makeup, tell her she has more change in the last 24 months than in the past 16 years! So much for the wisdom of Abdul! What people have trouble understanding is this, yeah, you are going to have problems with government agencies, but if you do have a problem, it is possible to go on to the next level for a possible change ie; mayor, representive,senator etc; on the other hand if these services are sold off, who do you go too? If you think "no risk" is only in government you are going to be disappointed when you enter the private sector. In the private sector you are dealing with (hopefully) your private funders funds but in government you should not be risky (with my money). We pay enough taxes without some guy that has screwed up everything he has touched giving us a ballon payment on taxes down the road to cover his "risks". Government is not supposed to make money. As to your $100K surtax dissent aren't these people the ones who hate raising the minimum wage? Wonder why?
Too Much Gobmint

Schuylkill Haven, PA

#58 Jan 30, 2007
Carlos wrote:
Too Much Gobmint, your nickname must be some sort of sarcastic comment.
Ah darn! I'm busted!
I do not mind Mitch's dismantling government, particularly the deal to privatize welfare. I've worked for state and county government, and I can promise you that the culture in a government office consists of NOT being innovative or taking risks for fear of making one's department head look bad. The motto is "no risk, no trouble for me and my job."
Oh but Mini Me Mitch was going to change all of that, remember? I recall his remarks on election night. "State employees, help is on the way . Get your pencils and notebooks out, we want your ideas." The next thing most of them knew their cube was being occupied by a young Republican with zero experience and any degree was in an unrelated subject. The motto now is The motto is "if you worked here before Jan.'05, you have no value."
While I certainly don't agree with Mitch on everything (his idea for a surtax on those making more than $100K was essentially an attempt to punish high achievers),
How dare he ask them to pay a share of taxes more in line with how they've benefited from society's infrastructure.
Mitch has certainly attempted to streamline government.
"Streamline?" When did "efficient" government morph into "streamline?" -- seeing as how "streamline" is an euphemism for "privitize."
Additionally, and Abdul from WXNT said this, we've had more change in the last 24 months than in the past 16 years of Democrat governors' tenures.
To paraphrase myself a few posts back:

Famous last words of a redneck -- "Hey y'al. Watch this change!"

So Abdul said we've had a lot of *change*. Big effing deal. Had he been alive at the time he could've rightly said that about Hitler.
Hick

Indianapolis, IN

#59 Feb 1, 2007
Too Much Gobmint wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, you have (or had) more money than sense. You shoulda spent more on land, less on the house. Not to point a finger at you, but it irks me to see a hoard of people turn out to protest a development in *their* backyard but are nowhere to be found when it's time to stand up for better planning regs.
Maybe I should have, but did not. I’m not sure how it would have made much difference if I had a $250,000 house on a $100,000 10 acre piece of land. If I get surrounded by a 100 acre 4 lot/acre development, I have a feeling I’d be in the same boat.

I'm really not trying to be sarcastic, it really just rubbed me wrong to see some people stand up and ask about their farm's market value as a potential housing development and how the state would value it based on that consideration. They seem to be against the state depreciating their property value with a tollroad, but don't seem to see the similarity in their (the farmer) selling to a high density builder. That seems like a double standard to me. If it hadn’t been put that way in the HC meeting, I wouldn’t be having this conversation. I just see a bunch of people who love their country way of life fighting the state on this tollroad when there is likely a higher probability that more farm land will go to high density developers over the next 10 years than will be taken up by this proposed tollroad in 20+ years.

I would be happy to jump on board with whatever effort there is to try and convince HC planners to tighten up on development standards. The challenge is staying up to speed on these developments. I am personally plugged into my local community, but am not plugged in at the county level. Any suggestions?
Too Much Gobmint

Schuylkill Haven, PA

#60 Feb 1, 2007
Hick wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe I should have, but did not. I’m not sure how it would have made much difference if I had a $250,000 house on a $100,000 10 acre piece of land. If I get surrounded by a 100 acre 4 lot/acre development, I have a feeling I’d be in the same boat.
I'm really not trying to be sarcastic, it really just rubbed me wrong to see some people stand up and ask about their farm's market value as a potential housing development and how the state would value it based on that consideration. They seem to be against the state depreciating their property value with a tollroad, but don't seem to see the similarity in their (the farmer) selling to a high density builder. That seems like a double standard to me. If it hadn’t been put that way in the HC meeting, I wouldn’t be having this conversation. I just see a bunch of people who love their country way of life fighting the state on this tollroad when there is likely a higher probability that more farm land will go to high density developers over the next 10 years than will be taken up by this proposed tollroad in 20+ years.
I would be happy to jump on board with whatever effort there is to try and convince HC planners to tighten up on development standards. The challenge is staying up to speed on these developments. I am personally plugged into my local community, but am not plugged in at the county level. Any suggestions?
Nor do I have sympathy for those farmers dedicated to generations of country living until the developer makes the right offer.(Include in that bunch the ones that lease a roadfront strip to billboard companies.) I'm just glad their a force for stopping the tollbeltway.

Suggestions? Join or start a neighborhood association, run for office, learn about p & z laws & regs, write letters to the local paper, bug politicians, look for people & organizations that share your goals. And be prepared to work your ass off.
Former Republican

Forest, IN

#61 Feb 1, 2007
Too Much Gobmint wrote:
<quoted text>
Nor do I have sympathy for those farmers dedicated to generations of country living until the developer makes the right offer.(Include in that bunch the ones that lease a roadfront strip to billboard companies.) I'm just glad their a force for stopping the tollbeltway.
Suggestions? Join or start a neighborhood association, run for office, learn about p & z laws & regs, write letters to the local paper, bug politicians, look for people & organizations that share your goals. And be prepared to work your ass off.
As one of those farmers who are dedicated to generations of country living, I can tell you there is no price high enough for my land. I do know those who do, but not me. It's a principle thing for me. I own a Hoosier Homestead, and will not give it up without a fight. I feel I owe it to my ancestors who fought and worked their a$$ off for it. If Mini Mitch decides to build this damn tollroad (which he already has..) near me, expect a big fight...
Too Much Gobmint

Schuylkill Haven, PA

#62 Feb 2, 2007
Former Republican wrote:
<quoted text>
As one of those farmers who are dedicated to generations of country living, I can tell you there is no price high enough for my land. I do know those who do, but not me. It's a principle thing for me. I own a Hoosier Homestead, and will not give it up without a fight. I feel I owe it to my ancestors who fought and worked their a$$ off for it. If Mini Mitch decides to build this damn tollroad (which he already has..) near me, expect a big fight...
You have my respect and best wishes.

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