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America in 1967-68 crackled and sizzled like brain cells on speed. The Watts and Detroit riots. Full Story
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Clark

Fort Worth, TX

#1 Apr 18, 2011
I graduated from Artesia High School in 1967 and New Mexico Highlands University in 1971. The era you talk about was quite a learning experience for me. I was raised by a WWII paratrooper and taught respect for country and flag as well as working for what you get. I graduated with a degree in Chemistry and minors in Math and Physics. While at Highlands, I saw hippies, communes, marches, sit-ins, and people wanting to burn the flag. All I can say is that I didn't care much for the people involved in these activities, and they didn't care much for me. In my opinion, this is one of our main problems now in this country--these people aged and had kids who think just like them.
Abe Froman

Milwaukee, WI

#2 Apr 21, 2011
What?
Witnessed it

Eagle, ID

#3 Apr 21, 2011
Clark wrote:
I graduated from Artesia High School in 1967 and New Mexico Highlands University in 1971. The era you talk about was quite a learning experience for me. I was raised by a WWII paratrooper and taught respect for country and flag as well as working for what you get. I graduated with a degree in Chemistry and minors in Math and Physics. While at Highlands, I saw hippies, communes, marches, sit-ins, and people wanting to burn the flag. All I can say is that I didn't care much for the people involved in these activities, and they didn't care much for me. In my opinion, this is one of our main problems now in this country--these people aged and had kids who think just like them.
I agree with what you say about working for what you get.But in a way we all got fooled by the changes that were embraced by the protests of the sixties .I mean women wanted to get more in to the work place and now America is the most productive country in the world ,but work has little value anymore,and the draft is gone,so now only the very poor(in most cases)go in the service.The so called free love is not so great .Now there are children all over the place with no Dads.but speaking off the Watts riots.When ever the police start beating people your going to get riots, that is a universal truth every where in the world.How do you solve the problem of police beating people when beatings are condoned by the higher ups.?
time traveler

United States

#4 Apr 24, 2011
Clark wrote:
I graduated from Artesia High School in 1967 and New Mexico Highlands University in 1971. The era you talk about was quite a learning experience for me. I was raised by a WWII paratrooper and taught respect for country and flag as well as working for what you get. I graduated with a degree in Chemistry and minors in Math and Physics. While at Highlands, I saw hippies, communes, marches, sit-ins, and people wanting to burn the flag. All I can say is that I didn't care much for the people involved in these activities, and they didn't care much for me. In my opinion, this is one of our main problems now in this country--these people aged and had kids who think just like them.
Well, Clark, what you are seeing today are hard working Americans who are fortunate enough to still have a job which likely includes the workers protesting in WI who are being shafted by their radical Governor who is out to destroy their rights as workers in support of the far-right GOP agenda - many are teachers of our future leaders. Unfortunately, we Americans place less value on education and chose to worship at the altar of wealth, because very few Americans are capable of connecting the dots that start with a good education which in-turn leads one to the opportunity of securing a good paying job - like you for example. The teaching profession has received very little respect from most Americans and that is reflected in the salaries paid to out educators, attitudes towards teachers, and the belief that Government can strip away their rights as working professionals. This popular attitude gives China and India the opportunity to take the lead in the world for science, math, and engineering by leveraging off their respect for a good education and using education to benefit their countries and their people. Unless the United States begins to place more value on educating our young, we will continue to see a decline within our country and other industrialized nations will begin turning to China and India for entrepreneurial leadership. How's this working for you and your family..?
Clark

Fort Worth, TX

#5 Apr 25, 2011
time traveler wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Clark, what you are seeing today are hard working Americans who are fortunate enough to still have a job which likely includes the workers protesting in WI who are being shafted by their radical Governor who is out to destroy their rights as workers in support of the far-right GOP agenda - many are teachers of our future leaders. Unfortunately, we Americans place less value on education and chose to worship at the altar of wealth, because very few Americans are capable of connecting the dots that start with a good education which in-turn leads one to the opportunity of securing a good paying job - like you for example. The teaching profession has received very little respect from most Americans and that is reflected in the salaries paid to out educators, attitudes towards teachers, and the belief that Government can strip away their rights as working professionals. This popular attitude gives China and India the opportunity to take the lead in the world for science, math, and engineering by leveraging off their respect for a good education and using education to benefit their countries and their people. Unless the United States begins to place more value on educating our young, we will continue to see a decline within our country and other industrialized nations will begin turning to China and India for entrepreneurial leadership. How's this working for you and your family..?
Being a conservative, I don't think we will ever agree on what is causing the problem with education you are talking about. I see education as starting at home with full parental support of getting an education. In my world, where I see the parents become involved with their kids, the kids get an education and move up in the world. It is not the government's job to educate people's children. That job starts at home and without the parents supporting the educational system which is more than just throwing money at schools, then it fails. Many people send their children to school and want the teachers to not only educate them but to also baby sit them.

We do agree on one thing--the educational system is broken. We don't agree on what caused it or what will cure it. I don't think either party has helped the cause, but it all starts with family values and familes raising children--not the government. I think we need to work on getting back to traditional values and helping families stay together. That is the first step toward improving our educational system.

I agree with paying teachers what they are worth. If they do a good job, they get paid more. I do not agree with the union system of just because you belong to a union you keep your job regardless of the quality of job you do. Most teachers I know have no problem with being paid by their accomplishments, and most of them do a good job and deserve more pay. The respect you talk about for teachers will never come until the population as a whole becomes more involved with the education of their children.

We could continue this discussion, but I think we are coming from different directions as usual. I want the government out of people's lives. As a final thought for improving education and as much as I love American football, I think we need to de-emphasize sports factories and pour this money into the education of our youth. Less elaborate stadiums, weight rooms, school buildings, etc. would go a long way toward paying for education.

Thanks for the discussion. You bring some good ideas to the subject. We just have different thoughts on how to solve them. There is probably some middle ground we could both agree upon.
Cope

Eagle, ID

#6 Apr 25, 2011
Clark wrote:
<quoted text>
Being a conservative, I don't think we will ever agree on what is causing the problem with education you are talking about. I see education as starting at home with full parental support of getting an education. In my world, where I see the parents become involved with their kids, the kids get an education and move up in the world. It is not the government's job to educate people's children. That job starts at home and without the parents supporting the educational system which is more than just throwing money at schools, then it fails. Many people send their children to school and want the teachers to not only educate them but to also baby sit them.
We do agree on one thing--the educational system is broken. We don't agree on what caused it or what will cure it. I don't think either party has helped the cause, but it all starts with family values and familes raising children--not the government. I think we need to work on getting back to traditional values and helping families stay together. That is the first step toward improving our educational system.
I agree with paying teachers what they are worth. If they do a good job, they get paid more. I do not agree with the union system of just because you belong to a union you keep your job regardless of the quality of job you do. Most teachers I know have no problem with being paid by their accomplishments, and most of them do a good job and deserve more pay. The respect you talk about for teachers will never come until the population as a whole becomes more involved with the education of their children.
We could continue this discussion, but I think we are coming from different directions as usual. I want the government out of people's lives. As a final thought for improving education and as much as I love American football, I think we need to de-emphasize sports factories and pour this money into the education of our youth. Less elaborate stadiums, weight rooms, school buildings, etc. would go a long way toward paying for education.
Thanks for the discussion. You bring some good ideas to the subject. We just have different thoughts on how to solve them. There is probably some middle ground we could both agree upon.
Public Education is the corner stone of democracy ,It is the job of the government to educate it`s children otherwise how would people know how to evaluate the laws and systems before they go into a voting booth.I don`t want morons controlling my life.
Teacher

Mescalero, NM

#7 Apr 25, 2011
We have the children for about 1200 hours a year; parents have them for the remaining 7500+ hours. Without parent support our attempts will fail.
Clark

Fort Worth, TX

#8 Apr 25, 2011
Cope wrote:
<quoted text>Public Education is the corner stone of democracy ,It is the job of the government to educate it`s children otherwise how would people know how to evaluate the laws and systems before they go into a voting booth.I don`t want morons controlling my life.
It is the job of parents to support the teachers trying to implement the public educational system. Without the help of parents, the public educational system starts to fail--like what is happening now. Too many parents look to the educational system to raise their children. The way you look at it, where do the parents play a role? Are they bystanders just sending their kids off to the public school? What are the parents responsibilities in education other than just throwing tax money at it? Maybe some teachers can weigh into this discussion. They are the ones on the front lines.
Cope

Eagle, ID

#9 Apr 25, 2011
Teacher wrote:
We have the children for about 1200 hours a year; parents have them for the remaining 7500+ hours. Without parent support our attempts will fail.
Yes but when people say it`s not the governments job that CODE for slashing the budget after they all ready finished school.
Clark

Fort Worth, TX

#10 Apr 25, 2011
Cope wrote:
<quoted text>Yes but when people say it`s not the governments job that CODE for slashing the budget after they all ready finished school.
Wrong again! I would put more money into the school sytstem to pay teachers, but I would also redirect much of the public money being spent on sports stadiums, huge architectural master pieces called schools, and concentrate on education. I would also direct money toward families to help them take part in raising their children before sending them to school. Cutting budget money to schools is not the discussion here. How to make education work is the discussion. Being a parent and grandparent, I know personally what it takes to help children get an education. My wife and I were always involved in tutoring, supporting teachers, helping under-priviliged kids, coaching, and donating to school projects. We felt that having children and educating them was our obligation and not just something that happened and was someone else's responsibility.
Get real

Lubbock, TX

#11 Apr 25, 2011
time traveler wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Clark, what you are seeing today are hard working Americans who are fortunate enough to still have a job which likely includes the workers protesting in WI who are being shafted by their radical Governor who is out to destroy their rights as workers in support of the far-right GOP agenda - many are teachers of our future leaders. Unfortunately, we Americans place less value on education and chose to worship at the altar of wealth, because very few Americans are capable of connecting the dots that start with a good education which in-turn leads one to the opportunity of securing a good paying job - like you for example. The teaching profession has received very little respect from most Americans and that is reflected in the salaries paid to out educators, attitudes towards teachers, and the belief that Government can strip away their rights as working professionals. This popular attitude gives China and India the opportunity to take the lead in the world for science, math, and engineering by leveraging off their respect for a good education and using education to benefit their countries and their people. Unless the United States begins to place more value on educating our young, we will continue to see a decline within our country and other industrialized nations will begin turning to China and India for entrepreneurial leadership. How's this working for you and your family..?
Your are right. We need to be like India & China. Only problem is India pays their teachers less than $400.00 USD = 17,795.99 INR . And a typical crappy flat in Mumbai rents for $8000.00 INR per month.

There are more applicants for teaching positions than spots available in almost every school in America. How can that be? If their pay is so low, there should be thousands of open positions. Add in the very generous benefits & 3 months off that no private employer can provide, the teaching salaries are where they need to be.

You can't blame the current state of education in America on teacher salaries, that is a worn out screech.
Teacher

Mescalero, NM

#12 Apr 25, 2011
Teachers only average around 2 months off annually, but you cannot find that with any private sector job. That is a major draw for people considering entering the field. The argument about teacher's salaries usually stems from a teacher's return on their education investment. In most states teachers are required to have a master's degree and have a starting salary of around $32k.This all depends on the district in which you are employed, some are higher, some are lower. Just like anything, it is based on the applicant pool. More desirable cities to live in can offer lower wages because they have a larger applicant pool. The private sector usually pays considerably more for someone with a master's degree.
http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/average-maste...

Benefits also depend on the school in which you teach, my school offers a 401k but does not offer any contribution match, all that goes into it is what I put in myself. NM teacher salaries do need a review. NM salaries are base on education level, experience, and Professional Development Dossier. The dossier has 3 levels Tier I, II, & III.
http://teachnm.org/programs/professional-deve...

I personally feel this system is flawed. It is relatively easy to advance in levels with no real emphasis on additional education. Teachers in NM are not required to have any continuing education credits, so you have Tier III teachers that have been teaching for a long time that haven't been in class since they completed their degree which in some cases can be 20 years ago. But most teachers teach because they love it; there is no better feeling than the one you get when you see that little expression a child makes when they get the lesson you are teaching. The wages are not a draw, if that were the case I would be an accountant bringing in $90k a year.

But please parents become involved; it does make all the difference in the world. I am not asking everyone to join the PTA, but just show you child you are interested. Ask them what they did today, make sure they do their homework, and express to them how important YOU think their education is. You children look up to you more than you think. You are their role models, we are just teachers.
Clark

Fort Worth, TX

#13 Apr 25, 2011
Teacher wrote:
Teachers only average around 2 months off annually, but you cannot find that with any private sector job. That is a major draw for people considering entering the field. The argument about teacher's salaries usually stems from a teacher's return on their education investment. In most states teachers are required to have a master's degree and have a starting salary of around $32k.This all depends on the district in which you are employed, some are higher, some are lower. Just like anything, it is based on the applicant pool. More desirable cities to live in can offer lower wages because they have a larger applicant pool. The private sector usually pays considerably more for someone with a master's degree.
http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/average-maste...
Benefits also depend on the school in which you teach, my school offers a 401k but does not offer any contribution match, all that goes into it is what I put in myself. NM teacher salaries do need a review. NM salaries are base on education level, experience, and Professional Development Dossier. The dossier has 3 levels Tier I, II, & III.
http://teachnm.org/programs/professional-deve...
I personally feel this system is flawed. It is relatively easy to advance in levels with no real emphasis on additional education. Teachers in NM are not required to have any continuing education credits, so you have Tier III teachers that have been teaching for a long time that haven't been in class since they completed their degree which in some cases can be 20 years ago. But most teachers teach because they love it; there is no better feeling than the one you get when you see that little expression a child makes when they get the lesson you are teaching. The wages are not a draw, if that were the case I would be an accountant bringing in $90k a year.
But please parents become involved; it does make all the difference in the world. I am not asking everyone to join the PTA, but just show you child you are interested. Ask them what they did today, make sure they do their homework, and express to them how important YOU think their education is. You children look up to you more than you think. You are their role models, we are just teachers.
Yes, you're just a teacher, only a teacher, a person who has dedicated your life to the children of people you don't even know. You put up with verbal abuse from pupils sent for you to raise and then put up with verbal abuse from the parents of these pupils when you try to discipline them. With all of that you are expected to educate these kids along with those who actually want to learn. I have known many of you, worked with many of you, and I claim many of you as friends. My hat is off to you for doing what you do.

My only point in all of this is that you cannot do your job without the support of the parents, and we need to reward those of you who have higher (or more) education which is required to do the good job you perform. As in the private sector, people should be paid for excellence and not just because they occupy a position.
time traveler

Seattle, WA

#14 Apr 25, 2011
The importance of a parent's involvement in the education of their children should not be diminished in this blog, but it should extend beyond grade school, junior high and high school. There are many young people who with their GOD-given-talent, intelligence and some limited financial support could be positive contributors to our US society, world leadership, and ingenuity; therefore, I support Pell Grants, student loans and scholarship programs. I believe there are families in NM where parents work, but not all of them earn six-figure salaries thereby making a college education a family financial hardship. However, they may also have a child with a talent for science, math, medicine and teaching. Talent is not limited by skin color, ethnicity, a parent's job or what neighborhood a family lives in. I believe very few if any will become a medical doctor/surgeon, an aerospace engineer, scientist or teacher without the opportunity to continue learning beyond high school. In fact, I believe learning is a life-long journey. If the US is to continue to hold its role as a world leader in science, engineering, etc., and have the ability to compete with China and India, we need to educate our young adults as they will one day soon be running this country. Personally, I prefer them to be well educated and well rounded adults.
Cope

Phoenix, AZ

#15 Apr 25, 2011
You have to watch what people say,One person would say investing in education,another would say throwing tax dollars at.I have enough education to read between the lines and recognize the talking points when I see them.Clark is talking about the horrible teachers, parents ,students as if that were the norm instead the exception .I am not that worried about China,Let`s see they pollute their soil and air and water.they sell me poison dog food lead covered toys,they manipulate their money they use child and slave labor.That means our laws are not keeping up not our schools.If you ask any teacher who has taught in China they will tell you there is rampant cheating and nothing happens when they are found out.What happened to being unhappy about human rights in China.It`s a morals and legal problem no tan education problem,Oh wait I forgot about counterfeit goods and copyright violations.
time traveler

United States

#16 Apr 26, 2011
The point about China and India is that US companies have moved their manufacturing to those companies for cheap labor. Plus, these countries send their best and brightest to US universities then yank them back home after graduation. Then we have Bill Gates claiming that he has to bring foreigners to the US to work for Microsoft because he cannot find/hire educated US citizens! The US is now a "Consumer nation" and all other countries are manufacturing countries (where the jobs are), so how does a US citizen make a living if he/she is only consuming products? We need well educated people who are innovative from which grows new market products that are produced here (likely by small companies) and not overseas since "we" would have the technology. Our young people will be required to compete with other young people half a world away. Greed, mega-millions paid to CEOs and corporate profits sustain the move overseas resulting in the loss of US jobs, that is unless you are willing to work in China or India.
Cope

Malibu, CA

#17 Apr 26, 2011
time traveler wrote:
The point about China and India is that US companies have moved their manufacturing to those companies for cheap labor. Plus, these countries send their best and brightest to US universities then yank them back home after graduation. Then we have Bill Gates claiming that he has to bring foreigners to the US to work for Microsoft because he cannot find/hire educated US citizens! The US is now a "Consumer nation" and all other countries are manufacturing countries (where the jobs are), so how does a US citizen make a living if he/she is only consuming products? We need well educated people who are innovative from which grows new market products that are produced here (likely by small companies) and not overseas since "we" would have the technology. Our young people will be required to compete with other young people half a world away. Greed, mega-millions paid to CEOs and corporate profits sustain the move overseas resulting in the loss of US jobs, that is unless you are willing to work in China or India.
Ok I get your point,I thought you were saying that the Chinese were better or smarter than us.Iunderstand your point now when you put it that way.
time traveler

United States

#18 Apr 27, 2011
I probably should have explained my thoughts and beliefs more clearly in earlier posts. Our young people are facing quite a challenge and they will be successful with parental support, a good education, and our politicians getting beyond bickering and petty trash talk in order to solve big problems!
Clark

Fort Worth, TX

#19 Apr 28, 2011
Rather than get into any separate discussions on this subject of parent involvement in the education of their children any further (and I did not say all teachers, parents, and students were horrible as Cope says), please look up the article and comments made by posters on the KOBTV website as to what is happening with one teacher in Albuquerque. The article is entitled "Teacher worries she's the target of angry parents". Here in the Houston area, article's like these are becoming more and more frequent.
time traveler

United States

#20 Apr 28, 2011
You fail to address the big problem of school shootings where students have killed teachers and fellow students. And recently, Texas has passed its approval for college students to carry loaded guns on college campuses in order to defend themselves. May look like a shoot-out at OK Corral on a campus near you. So where are your grown children going to attend college? The GOP and NRA want "guns for everyone" from Columbine High School to Virginia Tech..! That's it - "Guns for Everyone" so they say!

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