Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#62 Nov 8, 2012
How come so many people are upset that people receive food stamps when the oil companies receive twice as much?
The oil companies make billions and we still give them 280 billion a year in subsidies.
Welfare and food stamps go into the economy and are not that expensive when you compare what we give the oil companies for nothing. Food stamps cost about 142 billion half as much as we give big oil
Where is the outrage?

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#63 Nov 8, 2012
Uncle Wayne wrote:
<quoted text>
Here are the numbers, The oil companies received 280 billion in subsidies between 2008 and 2010 during the same time food stamps cost 142 billion.
The 142 billion went straight into the economy. Where did the 280 billion go?
Welfare aint the problem until it goes to Oil companies. They have a monopoly on the economy. We have to develop the technology to move people without oil.
According to the information at:

http://www.usfederalbudget.us/welfare_budget_...

total Welfare spending for the last 2 years has been in the half-trillion dollar range so your estimate on food stamps seems fair.

As to the subsidies/tax exemptions that gets returned to companies...most of this usually goes back into their capital accounts that is used for new investment in technology, manufacturing and such. Kind of the same idea of if/when I get a decent tax return...I might choose to save it, make some upgrades to my home or do some discretionary spending on appliances, clothes or general home repair.

I know that there is the perception that large corporations do things different than "average Joes" like me...but in reality...the people working at those companies know that they have to be just as fiscally responsible as they are at home...or the doors are going to close. Granted, this is an over-simplification because the tax code for corporations is larger than it is for me...but the general principles are still basically the same.

By extension, if that same mind-set were applied in principle to the Federal Gov't, we would not have a $16 TRILLION debt payment hanging over our heads. Most Americans, including myself, just has a hard time grasping the repercussions of that kind of debt. It's kind of like having a credit card at age 20 maxed out with $100,000 debt at 40% interest and you earn $40K per year. You will never see the light of day for the rest of your life and if you live to be 100, you will still be in debt. That is what a $16 TRILLION debt payment feels like.

I also readily agree with your comment that we need to decrease our dependency on oil -- foreign or domestic. As long as this dependency exists, we are at the whim of any situation that occurs in the Middle East or any domestic interruptions on the home front. It kind of makes you sick when you see a country like Venezuela have gas prices of 18 cents per gallon.......
independent

Johnson City, TN

#64 Nov 8, 2012
How many of you voted for Obama?
He got the black vote--well you know why.
He got the Hispanic vote--because he will give them amnesty and allow them to keep coming.
He got the white vote that is getting handouts--because they want it to keep coming.
The working people who have a job and are paying the bills voted for Romney because we want help paying the bills and are tired of people that do not work living better than us.
I do not agree with the oil subsidies, but to make money you must invest money. All those people working in the oil industry are paying taxes and taking care of their families.
The people working at Walmart, selling Chinese goods are themselves eligible for food stamps.
We need industrial jobs. We need a tariff on imported goods that makes it profitable to bring those jobs back to this country.
huh

Jonesborough, TN

#65 Nov 8, 2012
ThinkinMan wrote:
<quoted text>
No, they do not pay for the programs, however; they do provide the oil for those programs at a reduced price....ergo, the tax exemption. Ask any Democrat if they want the exemption to go away...and you will get a resounding NO...Why? Because a lot of people benefit from these exemptions...and the oil industry is not the only one. Most major corporations are given tax exemptions for providing goods/services at a reduced price to the private sector if there is a gov't program enticing them to do so. People enjoying those reduced rates are on both sides of the aisle...and it will take a major overhaul in the tax code to eliminate these subsidies (see John Boehner's comments in yesterday's news). The Dems and Repubs both know that without subsidies to private companies...gov't entitlement programs come to a screeching halt.
I'm still not sure how you figure providing oil at a reduced price is a tax exemption. If I'm in business and my cost on an item is $50 and I sell it retail for $100 then I make $50 on each sale. If I sell it to the government for $80 then I still make $30 each. It's a better deal but that's not a tax exemption and I would assume who we buy the oil from to keep the SOR supplies has some type of competitive bidding mechanism built in to get the best price. If you're saying we give them a tax exemption for the privilege of buying their product when they're already making a profit then someone needs to be taken out and hanged for coming up with that one.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#66 Nov 8, 2012
Uncle Wayne wrote:
How come so many people are upset that people receive food stamps when the oil companies receive twice as much?
The oil companies make billions and we still give them 280 billion a year in subsidies.
Welfare and food stamps go into the economy and are not that expensive when you compare what we give the oil companies for nothing. Food stamps cost about 142 billion half as much as we give big oil
Where is the outrage?
Please understand, I am not saying that I agree with the subsidies/tax exemptions that are allotted to oil companies or other corporations. However; that is part of the current tax code and until that is reformed by Congress and the President...this practice will continue. The issue at hand is what exemptions are we willing to allow corporations and individuals to exercise when they file their taxes. Yep, that is going to be a big can of worms to open up and let loose.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#67 Nov 8, 2012
independent wrote:
......The working people who have a job and are paying the bills voted for Romney because we want help paying the bills and are tired of people that do not work living better than us.
I do not agree with the oil subsidies, but to make money you must invest money. All those people working in the oil industry are paying taxes and taking care of their families.
The people working at Walmart, selling Chinese goods are themselves eligible for food stamps.
We need industrial jobs. We need a tariff on imported goods that makes it profitable to bring those jobs back to this country.
I agree with you "independent". Working people need jobs, careers, wages and salaries at a level that keeps them from having to apply for food stamps and such. Talk about a kick in the face...but when your paycheck gets stretched in today's economic mess...what is a family provider to do.
No More

Chatsworth, GA

#68 Nov 8, 2012
If you are a working man and voted for romey. More power to ya cause he ain't goin to help you he is going to help his kind, and that ain't the working man.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#69 Nov 8, 2012
huh wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm still not sure how you figure providing oil at a reduced price is a tax exemption. If I'm in business and my cost on an item is $50 and I sell it retail for $100 then I make $50 on each sale. If I sell it to the government for $80 then I still make $30 each....
From a NY Post article in April 2012:

....Obama and the Democrats talk about huge “subsidies”— as if taxpayers are signing billion-dollar checks to oil and gas companies. But oil companies don’t get subsidies. Rather, like every other business, they’re allowed to take tax deductions for the expenses they incur.

A tax deduction and a government subsidy aren’t the same. When politicians use the terms interchangeably, it misleads many Americans.

Oil-company tax deductions aren’t special favors. They are the standard relief afforded manufacturers, mining companies and other businesses to help recognize the costs of operations. Oil companies can deduct their expenses for things like equipment purchases and rig-technicians’ salaries. The point of these deductions — as for any other industry or individual — is to ensure taxes are only levied on income after expenses.

Oil companies can also deduct expenses related to exploration or development. The idea there is to provide an incentive to take on the often substantial risk of seeking new energy sources. When these efforts succeed, the energy market expands, prices drop and America moves that much closer to energy independence.

But even these deductions aren’t unique to energy companies. Many provisions in the tax code seek to encourage certain kinds of behavior. Mortgage deductions reward home ownership. Special tax benefits promote savings in individual retirement accounts or 401(k)s.

Overall, the oil and natural-gas industries claim about $2.8 billion a year in tax deductions. Yet that’s a tiny price to pay for the huge benefits the sector generates for the economy.

Over the last five years, through the thick of the recession, the oil and natural-gas industries have added 160,000 jobs. These firms now employ more than 9 million people. And 2011 saw higher domestic oil production for the third year in a row.

Now, some energy-sector players DO get federal subsidies, and they’re MASSIVE. They’re the “alternative-energy” companies the White House is so fond of. The wind and solar sectors alone take in $12.5 billion annually in direct subsidies.

Initially, this vast government support was justified on the grounds that “clean tech” was an infant industry that needed help to start competing with traditional energy sources. But we’re now years into shelling out tens of billions in taxpayer dollars — in return for little in innovation or self-sustaining jobs.

Bottom line: Oil and natural gas companies aren’t subsidized — they’re merely benefiting from the same, reasonable cost-of-operation deductions afforded to all kinds of industries.

The real subsidies — and the real scandal — are to be found in “renewable” energy, which has taken in tens of billions in direct government payments over the last few years but has little to show for it.
what tha

Jonesville, SC

#70 Nov 8, 2012
I think the mentality many have nowadays, the "keeping up with the Jones'".......there are several ways to make that paycheck stretch. Try a year with only necessities, see how much you're able to save. Noone NEEDS. cable, internet, latest cell phone, newest car, try buying off brands, clothing outlets rather than the mall, there are things WE can do in our homes to NOT put US in the food stamp line. NOT AN ARGUMENT JUST THROWING IT OUT THERE....FOOF FOR THOUGHT ONLY.
what tha

Jonesville, SC

#71 Nov 8, 2012
*FOOD*... sorry for the typo

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#72 Nov 8, 2012
ThinkinMan wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the information at:
http://www.usfederalbudget.us/welfare_budget_...
total Welfare spending for the last 2 years has been in the half-trillion dollar range so your estimate on food stamps seems fair.
As to the subsidies/tax exemptions that gets returned to companies...most of this usually goes back into their capital accounts that is used for new investment in technology, manufacturing and such. Kind of the same idea of if/when I get a decent tax return...I might choose to save it, make some upgrades to my home or do some discretionary spending on appliances, clothes or general home repair.

I know that there is the perception that large corporations do things different than "average Joes" like me...but in reality...the people working at those companies know that they have to be just as fiscally responsible as they are at home...or the doors are going to close. Granted, this is an over-simplification because the tax code for corporations is larger than it is for me...but the general principles are still basically the same.
By extension, if that same mind-set were applied in principle to the Federal Gov't, we would not have a $16 TRILLION debt payment hanging over our heads. Most Americans, including myself, just has a hard time grasping the repercussions of that kind of debt. It's kind of like having a credit card at age 20 maxed out with $100,000 debt at 40% interest and you earn $40K per year. You will never see the light of day for the rest of your life and if you live to be 100, you will still be in debt. That is what a $16 TRILLION debt payment feels like.
I also readily agree with your comment that we need to decrease our dependency on oil -- foreign or domestic. As long as this dependency exists, we are at the whim of any situation that occurs in the Middle East or any domestic interruptions on the home front. It kind of makes you sick when you see a country like Venezuela have gas prices of 18 cents per gallon.......
You sir will do the reposible thing like home repairs, clothes and such. I just cant see how we justify subsidies for a corporation who keeps posting record profits over and over again.
Even after a disaster like B.P. had in the gulf which cost them at least 20 billion dollars made record profits.
I also can't comprehend a trillion dollars, I think that a billion is just one tenth of one percent of a trillion, it's way over my head that's why I don't think welfare is the place to start.
I do know one way to spend a lot of money......War!!!!!
ccnative

Johnson City, TN

#73 Nov 8, 2012
No More wrote:
If you are a working man and voted for romey. More power to ya cause he ain't goin to help you he is going to help his kind, and that ain't the working man.
When you are a successful businessman you support the economy with jobs. You build up the country. When you give hands outs to people you cripple them. When there are no jobs to get, people lose pride and self reliance. If war comes, the quote," You have awakened a sleeping giant." would not apply. Instead the enemy could just march in. They would say "I ain't fightn'for no rich folks."
Common sense tells a person that if you have a baseball size hole in the bottom of a bucket and a straw running in the top, the bucket will empty FAST. Well obama is emptying it as fast as is possible. People taking handouts and not Demanding jobs are helping. Giving handouts for votes is not legal. So if you voted because you were afraid to lose your government check then you sold your vote and your country.
huh

Jonesborough, TN

#74 Nov 8, 2012
ThinkinMan wrote:
<quoted text>
From a NY Post article in April 2012:
....Obama and the Democrats talk about huge “subsidies”— as if taxpayers are signing billion-dollar checks to oil and gas companies. But oil companies don’t get subsidies. Rather, like every other business, they’re allowed to take tax deductions for the expenses they incur.
A tax deduction and a government subsidy aren’t the same. When politicians use the terms interchangeably, it misleads many Americans.
Clearly, oil companies DO get subsidies, as is outlined from the extremely conservative heritage.org website:

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011...

I find it interesting the story you presented came from the NY Post, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch's Newscorp. And it even more interesting Murdoch has heavy investments in oil corporations...see the connection?
CCHS

Johnson City, TN

#75 Nov 8, 2012
Did you actually look at the results of the election? apparently not. The largest welfare receipent states, Mississippi, Kentucky and Tennessee all voted for Romney....ROMNEY; with over 60%. The demographic that voted for Obama was college educated women, young adults and minorities. How do you explain the states that receive the most money in welfare relief are the southern states that voted overwhelmingly for Romney? You really need to wake up because the republican agenda will not fly with educated women. Social issues do matter. Obama care is Romney care in Mass. and is working very well. Get over it....move on, the country spoke in a loud voice. STOP watching FOX news and believing everything they say! They are wrong and you will have many more years complaining and trying to place blame where it doesn't exist. The reality is the republicans ideologies are so far off base from what people can vote for. Women are the largest percent of voters and they came out in droves. The election is over....move on and spread the lies and bs elsewhere. By the way, I am a white college educated woman and my vote was wasted here in Tennessee but thankfully other educated white women voted too!!!!
another point

Johnson City, TN

#76 Nov 8, 2012
I am an educated white woman and I did not vote for obama. Only history will prove who was right. I hope it is you for the sake of our country. I agree that what our country needs is a leader.
Clogging the polls, threatening blacks who were standing around the polls, media propaganda all worked to shape opinion. Why did we not hear about the horrible handling of Sandy til AFTER the election (Bush did not get such treatment during New Orleans)? Why did we not hear about the physical cliff til after the election?
Now that Mr Obama has got his job--DO IT.
Show us you are qualified to fulfill your promises.
Youth

Kingsport, TN

#77 Nov 8, 2012
The problem with all you Romney voters .....$$$$$ that is why us young voters arent relating to you right winged rep.... That is all you talk about.... Nothing on here about health insurance ,womans rights or the wars really....its all being blamed on welfare.... Wake up old republicans . You need to catch up.... The trickle down method has falled with all the corporate ,wall street greed from years past.... Im young have a great job ,pay my taxes and insurance.... I also support Obama... So the ignorant hypocritical statement that only welfare peeps voted for Obama is false.....Even fox news has been stateing reps lost because they dont relate nor do they wanna change for the younger generations.....Millions of dollars throwen away by republicans could have been given to programs to help the needy ....Instead they thought millions would buy them votes this election ....Republicans got nothing because they deserve nothing. Go! Obama
whaaaat

Jonesborough, TN

#78 Nov 8, 2012
another point wrote:
I am an educated white woman and I did not vote for obama. Only history will prove who was right. I hope it is you for the sake of our country. I agree that what our country needs is a leader.
Clogging the polls, threatening blacks who were standing around the polls, media propaganda all worked to shape opinion. Why did we not hear about the horrible handling of Sandy til AFTER the election (Bush did not get such treatment during New Orleans)? Why did we not hear about the physical cliff til after the election?
Now that Mr Obama has got his job--DO IT.
Show us you are qualified to fulfill your promises.
History will never prove who was right as there is no way to know what would have happened had Romney won. Not sure where you heard of the "horrible" handling of Sandy but the Republican governor of New Jersey was practically endorsing Obama for President due to his actions in response to the storm. And the "physical" cliff (did you mean fiscal?) is not recent news for anyone who is paying attention...it's been discussed for months.
Liberal Hillbilly

Kingsport, TN

#79 Nov 8, 2012
This is the most intelligent discussion I have ever seen on Topix. Well done everybody. You all give me faith, even those of you I disagree with.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#80 Nov 9, 2012
Youth wrote:
.....Millions of dollars throwen away by republicans could have been given to programs to help the needy ....Instead they thought millions would buy them votes this election ....Republicans got nothing because they deserve nothing. Go! Obama
And how much of the $6 Billion spent on this weeks elections was spent by Democrats? Obama and Romney each spent over $1 Billion each. So that leaves over 3.5 Billion for the other offices...and yes...a large portion of that money was spent by Democrats also. So don't go and try to paint the Repubs as the only party spending money...the Dems do just as much if not more.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#81 Nov 9, 2012
Youth wrote:
The problem with all you Romney voters .....$$$$$ that is why us young voters arent relating to you right winged rep.... That is all you talk about.... Nothing on here about health insurance ,womans rights or the wars really....its all being blamed on welfare.... Wake up old republicans . You need to catch up.... The trickle down method has falled with all the corporate ,wall street greed from years past.... Im young have a great job ,pay my taxes and insurance.... I also support Obama...
Perhaps you may be too young to understand the importance of "keeping" the money that you have saved over a lifetime versus the notion of being "kept" by some gov't entitlement program. I have health insurance currently, but due to the passing of ObamaCare and the increase in my premiums in 2010, I have had to choose less coverage, at higher deductibles with increased premiums. Someone has to pay for the increased numbers of people who now have "guaranteed" healthcare...and it sure is not going to be the insurance companies.

As to Wall Street greed, I seem to remember that it was Bill Clinton who signed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. This act had maintained a wall of separation between commercial and investment banking since being enacted in 1933. And of course, it depends upon who you talk to in determining if this repeal aided in any way to the financial meltdown of 2008. Granted, it may not be the sole contributor but it sure paved the way to a possibility.

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