Church of the First Born....Cult and ...
WildCard

Tulsa, OK

#1712 Apr 23, 2013
I hope these two get some seriously hard time for the crime they've done. Apparently something is wrong with this picture as well as their presumpteous relationship with God.

2nd child of Pa. couple dies after only praying
http://news.yahoo.com/2nd-child-pa-couple-die...

PHILADELPHIA (AP)— A couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another son has died.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating. Four years ago, another son died from bacterial pneumonia.
member

Ashland, NE

#1713 Apr 23, 2013
One Upset Mother wrote:
I'm so glad that I amaze you... you go dig up your own information. I had to.
I'm not here to fight... it started out a place to vent, but now it's because I'm trying to figure out why certain people do the things that they do.
And still yet, my LOGICAL question still goes unanswered: "Answer me this, if you can. Why do certain individuals have the special talent and knowledge that God placed in them to be doctors? If He did not intend for doctors to treat and help people, not cure them, then why did He give that ability to them? I cannot get one person from this belief to answer that question."
simple: free will. god gave us free will to do as we please. yes god gave us brains to use some chose to stop.having faith and try to heal themselves with that gift. Just as free will allows others to deny god even exists or to live in sin. just because we have the ability to do something does not make it right by god. If someone goes out and shoots a person does that mean that god is ok with it? God gave us free will that we may serve and believe in.him on our own and not because we are forced by his hand to believe.
WildCard

Sallisaw, OK

#1714 Apr 24, 2013
member wrote:
<quoted text>
simple: free will. god gave us free will to do as we please. yes god gave us brains to use some chose to stop.having faith and try to heal themselves with that gift. Just as free will allows others to deny god even exists or to live in sin. just because we have the ability to do something does not make it right by god. If someone goes out and shoots a person does that mean that god is ok with it? God gave us free will that we may serve and believe in.him on our own and not because we are forced by his hand to believe.
And some chose to try and exercise "faith" for healing when they didn't have other things right with him according to his commandment.

And some chose to think they should follow the herd,(their church doctrine) like a robot. And then their 2 kids died because they were religious idiots. BTW, I am a believer, but I get angry at such MEAN STUPIDITY.
WildCard

Sallisaw, OK

#1715 Apr 24, 2013
D_Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Luke was not a physician in the normal sense of the word. He was in the same sense Jesus was. The mere mentioning of the occupation in the scripture does not constitute a divine stamp of approval for it.
http://suzanneshumaker.blogspot.com/2012/04/d...
That's NOT what the bible says. You are twisting the words of scripture and applying your own definition....just like you do everything else about this cult's doctrines.
WarForOil

Grapevine, TX

#1716 Apr 26, 2013
member wrote:
<quoted text>
simple: free will. god gave us free will to do as we please. yes god gave us brains to use .
Apparently God didn't give you enough brains
to learn grammar and punctuation.

Beware, each time the state takes your picture for
your driver's license, they steal a little more of
your soul. Jesus wouldn't allow his picture to be
taken you shouldn't either or eat potatoes.
Every one is a critic

Avon, CO

#1717 Apr 29, 2013
Why the interest in this? I do not think: that this group even makes up a statistic of 0.1% of the United States. I do not see the logic in wanting to punish people, their families, etc, for their religious beliefs that do not harm other people in any way. Christians of any denomination should favor peace above all else.
I say simply when I disagree with a religion: count me off of the fan club.
Brother Ron

Atlanta, GA

#1718 Apr 29, 2013
You guys should keep Praying for Our Heavenly Father's Will to be done.

If people are not doing HIS Will, they will be Judged Accordingly!

But there are other things happening right before your eyes that you might not be aware of!

The False Flags (9/11/others, even the Boston Marathon attack).

** Did you know that they were running Bomb Drills on the Same Day, Same Location, Same Event?
** Did you know that "The Craft International" was there (Hired Mercenaries). Also that the Matching Backpack that Blew up doesn't match the Two brothers, but matches a Craft Mercenary's Backpack (the one with the White Square on it).

Did you know that the President signed the NDAA Bill on New Years Eve while everyone was partying?
** Do you even know what that is? Well, you should because it takes "your" rights away! It takes Due Process (right to a Trial, or a Lawyer) away!

Did you know that the President signed the "Monsanto Protection Act" ? Putting that Company Above the Law!

Did you know that the President has a Kill List that includes American Citizens; in-fact, he has already okay'd the Assassinations of 3 American Citizens without even charging them! It's true, look it up! One was a 16 year old boy that was born in Colorado!

Did you know that they are trying to Pass "CISPA". Don't know what that is? It's Internet Censorship! Trying to Control the Real News (as you don't get it from CNN & FOX, they air footage that's okay'd from the highest bidder). Don't believe it?
- Why weren't told that The CRAFT (Bush's Blackwater Mercenaries) were onsite, having matching Black Backpacks, or that they were running Bomb Drill the same day at the same event???
***** It was an INSIDE JOB to test MARTIAL LAW on the East Coast; they had already tested it on the West Coast with the Chris Dorner scenario.
*** People, pay attention!

There is so much more that most miss, simply because you are trusting the Mainstream Media for the Truth, when that is mistake number 1.

Why can't anyone see any photo's of the legs that were blown off of the guy at the marathon? Surely if they were blown off, they had to have landed somewhere, right? Did you know that FEMA hires CRISIS ACTORS? Look it up!

Did you know that Building 7 Fell on 9/11, and No Plane Hit it! It was a Controlled Demolition, just like Buildings 1 & 2. Look it up! And start paying Attention!

Regarding this church stuff... Most of the members here don't even follow the Scriptures! If you did, you would realize that The Sabbath deals with Creation of the Heaven, Earth, Sea and all that is within. You would STOP Disregarding What Came Out of HIS (Our Heavenly Father's) Mouth, that we are supposed to be living by!(Matthew 4:4/Exodus 20:1/20:11, etc.)

Start paying attention! That's the best Start! ;-)
Anonymous

Nampa, ID

#1719 May 26, 2013
Say What wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, so go ahead and let your babies and children die without medical help, that don't have a choice and can't speak for themselves and make their own decisions to die like you do. You've got a great head start already on being a DEATH CULT you self righteous twit.
This is horrible who are you to judge. I know many people in this church and they are the sweetest most loving people you will ever meet. They aren't a cult. Cults don't want people to leave, that's quite opposite of this church if you don't want to go to church there anymore no one hunts you down and forces you to come back that's yourchoice. every church has something they believe that others don't, they are trying so serve God and make heaven their home why would you want to attack anyone for that? Only God can judge, not you!focus on yourselves instead of others. And there has been death but there will be death even if people do go to the hospitals. You hear a few of the bad stories but you haven't heard the millions and millions of miracles that God has worked and saved people's lives because of these people's faith. Why can't people just love. Your post along with many others is so hateful it's sad what this world has become.
Anonymous

Nampa, ID

#1720 May 26, 2013
The church isn't a cult many people who go to this church go to the hospital too. And for the ones that don't they have so much faith that God's will will be done. God says when people die and when they don't if it's someone's time to die God will take them whether they are at home praying or whether they are in a hospital. Instead of judging and attacking people's beliefs why not just focus on yourselves? What would feel better focusing on yourself and trying to be the best person you can be and just love everyone even your enemy or attack and hate people for believing differently then you??
Jonny

United States

#1721 May 26, 2013
Brother Ron wrote:
You guys should keep Praying for Our Heavenly Father's Will to be done.
If people are not doing HIS Will, they will be Judged Accordingly!
But there are other things happening right before your eyes that you might not be aware of!
The False Flags (9/11/others, even the Boston Marathon attack).
** Did you know that they were running Bomb Drills on the Same Day, Same Location, Same Event?
** Did you know that "The Craft International" was there (Hired Mercenaries). Also that the Matching Backpack that Blew up doesn't match the Two brothers, but matches a Craft Mercenary's Backpack (the one with the White Square on it).
Did you know that the President signed the NDAA Bill on New Years Eve while everyone was partying?
** Do you even know what that is? Well, you should because it takes "your" rights away! It takes Due Process (right to a Trial, or a Lawyer) away!
Did you know that the President signed the "Monsanto Protection Act" ? Putting that Company Above the Law!
Did you know that the President has a Kill List that includes American Citizens; in-fact, he has already okay'd the Assassinations of 3 American Citizens without even charging them! It's true, look it up! One was a 16 year old boy that was born in Colorado!
Did you know that they are trying to Pass "CISPA". Don't know what that is? It's Internet Censorship! Trying to Control the Real News (as you don't get it from CNN & FOX, they air footage that's okay'd from the highest bidder). Don't believe it?
- Why weren't told that The CRAFT (Bush's Blackwater Mercenaries) were onsite, having matching Black Backpacks, or that they were running Bomb Drill the same day at the same event???
***** It was an INSIDE JOB to test MARTIAL LAW on the East Coast; they had already tested it on the West Coast with the Chris Dorner scenario.
*** People, pay attention!
There is so much more that most miss, simply because you are trusting the Mainstream Media for the Truth, when that is mistake number 1.
Why can't anyone see any photo's of the legs that were blown off of the guy at the marathon? Surely if they were blown off, they had to have landed somewhere, right? Did you know that FEMA hires CRISIS ACTORS? Look it up!
Did you know that Building 7 Fell on 9/11, and No Plane Hit it! It was a Controlled Demolition, just like Buildings 1 & 2. Look it up! And start paying Attention!
Regarding this church stuff... Most of the members here don't even follow the Scriptures! If you did, you would realize that The Sabbath deals with Creation of the Heaven, Earth, Sea and all that is within. You would STOP Disregarding What Came Out of HIS (Our Heavenly Father's) Mouth, that we are supposed to be living by!(Matthew 4:4/Exodus 20:1/20:11, etc.)
Start paying attention! That's the best Start! ;-)
And your sources are who and please give a link?

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#1722 Jun 14, 2013
Every one is a critic wrote:
Why the interest in this? I do not think: that this group even makes up a statistic of 0.1% of the United States. I do not see the logic in wanting to punish people, their families, etc, for their religious beliefs that do not harm other people in any way. Christians of any denomination should favor peace above all else.
I say simply when I disagree with a religion: count me off of the fan club.
Children die when they do not have to because of the belief against doctors in this church. Wanting to punish people because they refuse to care for their helpless children and children suffer is quite logical. It is strange you cannot see the logic.

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#1723 Jun 14, 2013
Anonymous wrote:
The church isn't a cult many people who go to this church go to the hospital too. And for the ones that don't they have so much faith that God's will will be done. God says when people die and when they don't if it's someone's time to die God will take them whether they are at home praying or whether they are in a hospital. Instead of judging and attacking people's beliefs why not just focus on yourselves? What would feel better focusing on yourself and trying to be the best person you can be and just love everyone even your enemy or attack and hate people for believing differently then you??
Nobody is judging members of this church for their beliefs. The members are being judged because they refuse to take care of their children and the children suffer. You should care if a child suffers because a parent does not take care of them. You quoted God but that is not in the bible. Stop quoting God if you do not know what you are talking about.

Your advice to focus on yourself is quite selfish. People everywhere should focus, care about and try to eliminate child abuse such as refusing medical care for children. Some members of your church do not believe they are required to follow the law as can be seen by the numerous criminal convictions.

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#1724 Jun 14, 2013
D_Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Luke was not a physician in the normal sense of the word. He was in the same sense Jesus was. The mere mentioning of the occupation in the scripture does not constitute a divine stamp of approval for it.
http://suzanneshumaker.blogspot.com/2012/04/d...
Darren do you believe that children should not be taken to a doctor ever? Some people in your church do.
Every one is a critic

Avon, CO

#1725 Jun 15, 2013
member019 wrote:
"Children die when they do not have to because of the belief against doctors in this church. Wanting to punish people because they refuse to care for their helpless children and children suffer is quite logical. It is strange you cannot see the logic."

I do not agree with: every belief, or decision, a religion, makes; but I, do believe, religious demands, & requirements, that harm, others in, no way, should be allowed. The government grants religious requirements to many different religions. I believe a religion in return should be willing to work with the government. The Children are subject to their parents (property of their parents)… They are not my kids; (nor are they the kids, of people, that write,“our kids”) I want no responsibility for them, nor do I clam to want it. I do see the logic: in why, church, of the, first born, members would, choose to, form their, kids to, partake, grow up, & believe, in, what they, believe. At an: age of, awareness,(starting at 5 or 6) a kid, that was, taught to, believe in, those things, would most, likely choose, to die, in sickness, before seeing, a doctor. That is: their business, & if, they do, not want, to do, business with, me or, anyone else,(just like: the Japanese, would only, do business, with the, Dutch for, a long, time) I respect, that; I stay, out of, their club, they stay, out mine, & every, normal human, being stays, happy.
Avenger

United States

#1726 Jun 15, 2013
If you believe God can do all things then why don't you believe God can work through a doctor to heal a child's illness or injury?

Are you saying doctors cannot be God's children as well?

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#1727 Jun 15, 2013
member019 wrote:
<quoted text>
Darren do you believe that children should not be taken to a doctor ever? Some people in your church do.
I believe that God heals our children the same as we adults. I do not believe in taking my children to doctors, as I hold no faith in them. I am aware that not all of our congregations feel the same, not every church member believes exactly the same, and that is their prerogative. So I answer for myself, not all others.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#1728 Jun 16, 2013
Avenger wrote:
If you believe God can do all things then why don't you believe God can work through a doctor to heal a child's illness or injury?
Are you saying doctors cannot be God's children as well?
Who said God can not work through a doctor? Of course he can. However a believer has no need to share this experience with a doctor, and God does not share this glory with men.

God also is not the author of confusion, and to any unbeliever, a healing performed by God toward someone under the care of a doctor, is attributed to the physician and his expertise.
Avenger

United States

#1729 Jun 16, 2013
D_Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Who said God can not work through a doctor? Of course he can. However a believer has no need to share this experience with a doctor, and God does not share this glory with men.
God also is not the author of confusion, and to any unbeliever, a healing performed by God toward someone under the care of a doctor, is attributed to the physician and his expertise.
Doctors can be children of God just like you or I and God can work through them in their skill set. Humans give the 'glory' to other humans so that's isn't inherit in the doctor but in joy, relief, and gratitude for a love one helped. There are Christian doctors as well as atheist. My belief has no bearing on the doctor but on myself where the responsibility belongs.

To me this is a no brainer. The Holy Bible says God works in mysterious ways and God can work through a doctor and his skills as well as through me and my skill set.

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#1730 Jun 21, 2013
Every one is a critic wrote:
member019 wrote:
"Children die when they do not have to because of the belief against doctors in this church. Wanting to punish people because they refuse to care for their helpless children and children suffer is quite logical. It is strange you cannot see the logic."
I do not agree with: every belief, or decision, a religion, makes; but I, do believe, religious demands, & requirements, that harm, others in, no way, should be allowed. The government grants religious requirements to many different religions. I believe a religion in return should be willing to work with the government. The Children are subject to their parents (property of their parents)… They are not my kids; (nor are they the kids, of people, that write,“our kids”) I want no responsibility for them, nor do I clam to want it. I do see the logic: in why, church, of the, first born, members would, choose to, form their, kids to, partake, grow up, & believe, in, what they, believe. At an: age of, awareness,(starting at 5 or 6) a kid, that was, taught to, believe in, those things, would most, likely choose, to die, in sickness, before seeing, a doctor. That is: their business, & if, they do, not want, to do, business with, me or, anyone else,(just like: the Japanese, would only, do business, with the, Dutch for, a long, time) I respect, that; I stay, out of, their club, they stay, out mine, & every, normal human, being stays, happy.
By that logic you would have to agree that if a parent wants to throw their child into a volcano to appease god then they should be permitted to.

Sounds like you are heartless to me.

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#1731 Jun 21, 2013
D_Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that God heals our children the same as we adults. I do not believe in taking my children to doctors, as I hold no faith in them. I am aware that not all of our congregations feel the same, not every church member believes exactly the same, and that is their prerogative. So I answer for myself, not all others.
Then you have a dilemma where the law says you must take your child to a doctor if their life is threatened and the bible says you must follow the law. The bible does not say you must avoid doctors.

Darren the belief you espouse here implies that you believe that God's will will not be done if you take your child to the doctor.

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