Church of the First Born....Cult and Apostate

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Tammy

Boise City, OK

#2 Apr 1, 2008
I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and always will but this belief is sadistic and just plain horrible. I personally have had an insite into this religion as I have inlaws with 6 children and would have been seven children had they not chose to allow healing hands and a midwife attemp to deliver their seventh child who died at birth. I also am married and my husband has recently began going to this church. My profession is a Registered Nurse, so I do not need to tell you how many problems this has stirred in our relationship. Just yesterday our nephew broke his arm and the brethren set and casted his arm...Is this not medical attention???? And may I state , medical attention practiced by a unlicensed lay person which I feel is illegal by all terms of the word. I just wish that someone , somewhere would pass a law to protect our young children who do not have the ability to make informed decisions regarding their care!!!!
Anti-Cult

Piketon, OH

#3 Apr 2, 2008
Tammy wrote:
I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and always will but this belief is sadistic and just plain horrible. I personally have had an insite into this religion as I have inlaws with 6 children and would have been seven children had they not chose to allow healing hands and a midwife attemp to deliver their seventh child who died at birth. I also am married and my husband has recently began going to this church. My profession is a Registered Nurse, so I do not need to tell you how many problems this has stirred in our relationship. Just yesterday our nephew broke his arm and the brethren set and casted his arm...Is this not medical attention???? And may I state , medical attention practiced by a unlicensed lay person which I feel is illegal by all terms of the word. I just wish that someone , somewhere would pass a law to protect our young children who do not have the ability to make informed decisions regarding their care!!!!
Tammy, please check another thread on this forum about this spiritually abusive cult that suddenly popped up again last night shortly after your post and also caught my attention.

There are more people involved in this "church" around the country and even here in Oklahoma than is generally recognized, and their spiritually abusive tract record is dismal to say the least.

And you are correct in your assessment that this cult's practices are dangerous and satanic, as evidenced by the treatment given your nephew. If the "church" had such faith in the healing of your nephew, why didn't they just pray instead of having to resort to having a medically unlicensed member set his broken arm manually? See what I'm getting at? No, they are playing God, and it's doubtful that God is pleased with this sort of twisting of his Holy Word.

I do believe there are laws against such practices. There are many cases of members of this cult, The Assembly of the First Born, being taken to court and charged with various crimes, including practicing medicine without a license, to mention one of the lesser charges.

I would urge you to contact Child Protective Services branch of DHS as well as your State Board and see what can be done, pressing charges, if possible, irregardless of the consequences to your already shaky marital relationship. Your duty is to obey God first in the interest of protecting a child and/or children who may have no other advocate to turn to for help.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/g03.html

Jesus himself said this in the Gospel of Matthew;
( people can take it how they want to, but I am suggesting that people had better be very careful how they treat little children).

9 And if thine eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is good for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire.

10 See that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 18
Sarah

Baltimore, MD

#4 Apr 2, 2008
thats my sister in law that bled to death in her bed. I HATE THIS CHURCH.

Since: Feb 08

Del City, OK

#5 Apr 3, 2008
I don't know about anyone else here but the God I believe in doesn't help those who do not help themselves. Reminds me of a story someone told me:

A man is in his home in the country, his nearest neighbor is miles away. A rain-driven flash flood drives him to his roof for saftey. Soon a boat comes along and motions him to get in. The man turns the boat away, assured that God will look after and protect him from the raging flood below. As the flood water raises higher another boat comes along, he turns this one away as well. Now the flood water is covering most of his house and the rain shows no sign of relenting. A helicopter approaches overhead and lowers a rescue line. The man pushes it away and waves them off. Soon after the flood waters crest over the man's home and he drowns. At the pearly gates the man asks God why he didn't save him. To which God responds "What more do you want? I sent two boats and a helicopter."

Morale of the story, we have the things we have and can do the things we do not by chance and medicine is no exception. If it's your time then the entire cast of ER couldn't save you but if it isn't you'll live on.

While not really following any organized faith personally (I'm more agnostic than anything) I do recongnize that miracles are not overt, atleast not in the modern day. Prayer is all well and good, but if you are sick or hurt go to the hospital. God does not help those who do not make the effort to help themselves.
anon

AOL

#6 Apr 4, 2008
It amazes me that anyone would still even visit or have anything to do with Church of the First Born. Back in the '80's they made headlines for allowing a child to die from a burst appendix. If it is your child, would you choose a surgeon or laying on of hands? This church, the elders or whatever governing board they have should be held responsible for their actions. They brainwash people and it causes harm (sometimes leading to death). Call it conspiracy to commit negligent manslaughter or whatever can be done to legally stop this practice.
Darren from Maricopa

Phoenix, AZ

#7 Apr 10, 2008
Kevin from Del City wrote:
I don't know about anyone else here but the God I believe in doesn't help those who do not help themselves. Reminds me of a story someone told me:
A man is in his home in the country, his nearest neighbor is miles away. A rain-driven flash flood drives him to his roof for saftey. Soon a boat comes along and motions him to get in. The man turns the boat away, assured that God will look after and protect him from the raging flood below. As the flood water raises higher another boat comes along, he turns this one away as well. Now the flood water is covering most of his house and the rain shows no sign of relenting. A helicopter approaches overhead and lowers a rescue line. The man pushes it away and waves them off. Soon after the flood waters crest over the man's home and he drowns. At the pearly gates the man asks God why he didn't save him. To which God responds "What more do you want? I sent two boats and a helicopter."
Morale of the story, we have the things we have and can do the things we do not by chance and medicine is no exception. If it's your time then the entire cast of ER couldn't save you but if it isn't you'll live on.
While not really following any organized faith personally (I'm more agnostic than anything) I do recongnize that miracles are not overt, atleast not in the modern day. Prayer is all well and good, but if you are sick or hurt go to the hospital. God does not help those who do not make the effort to help themselves.
Hmm...this story is neat but you have missed the true point Kevin...HE MADE IT TO HEAVEN!!

Since: Feb 08

Del City, OK

#8 Apr 11, 2008
Apparently you missed the point I was making. But I'll not waste my time trying to explain it, again.
Anti-Cult

Piketon, OH

#9 Apr 11, 2008
Kevin from Del City wrote:
I don't know about anyone else here but the God I believe in doesn't help those who do not help themselves. Reminds me of a story someone told me:
A man is in his home in the country, his nearest neighbor is miles away. A rain-driven flash flood drives him to his roof for saftey. Soon a boat comes along and motions him to get in. The man turns the boat away, assured that God will look after and protect him from the raging flood below. As the flood water raises higher another boat comes along, he turns this one away as well. Now the flood water is covering most of his house and the rain shows no sign of relenting. A helicopter approaches overhead and lowers a rescue line. The man pushes it away and waves them off. Soon after the flood waters crest over the man's home and he drowns. At the pearly gates the man asks God why he didn't save him. To which God responds "What more do you want? I sent two boats and a helicopter."
Morale of the story, we have the things we have and can do the things we do not by chance and medicine is no exception. If it's your time then the entire cast of ER couldn't save you but if it isn't you'll live on.
While not really following any organized faith personally (I'm more agnostic than anything) I do recongnize that miracles are not overt, atleast not in the modern day. Prayer is all well and good, but if you are sick or hurt go to the hospital. God does not help those who do not make the effort to help themselves.
People in this cult, The General Assembly of the First Born........or their kids, might make it to heaven prematurely as some already have.

God did say, "My people perish for lack of knowledge".
Not a cult

Union City, OK

#10 Jun 22, 2008
The only reason most people don't like the church is because worldly people like to pick and choose the parts of The Bible that THEY want to withhold. You have to live the faith to your fullest and obey every rule given to us by the one who created us. We don't believe that you will go to Hell if you don't believe like us, as a matter of fact we believe what The BIBLE says. i.e. If you are good and withhold what you believe there is a place in heaven for you. You're being unfair by attacking us for practicing what we believe. Our ancestors came here for freedom of religion and these days it seems like they came in vain. I don't believe they did but thats how the world makes it seem to be. P.S. We have nothing against doctors, and we respect them, we just have enough faith in God that we don't need help from man. If we die then that means it was time and if we are afraid of death then evidentaly we don't think we were good enough to go to heaven. I'm not afraid to die because I have lived my life the best I can and i believe I will go to heaven. In fact I'd rather be in heaven right now than on earth, but my work isn't done, there are still things I have to do for God before I go. God bless you all. P.S. i would appreciate if you would all stop calling my faith a cult, it is very insulting and if you have no faith of your own you can quit critisizing people who actually make and effort to make a difference.
Say What

AOL

#11 Jun 23, 2008
Not a cult wrote:
The only reason most people don't like the church is because worldly people like to pick and choose the parts of The Bible that THEY want to withhold. You have to live the faith to your fullest and obey every rule given to us by the one who created us. We don't believe that you will go to Hell if you don't believe like us, as a matter of fact we believe what The BIBLE says. i.e. If you are good and withhold what you believe there is a place in heaven for you. You're being unfair by attacking us for practicing what we believe. Our ancestors came here for freedom of religion and these days it seems like they came in vain. I don't believe they did but thats how the world makes it seem to be. P.S. We have nothing against doctors, and we respect them, we just have enough faith in God that we don't need help from man. If we die then that means it was time and if we are afraid of death then evidentaly we don't think we were good enough to go to heaven. I'm not afraid to die because I have lived my life the best I can and i believe I will go to heaven. In fact I'd rather be in heaven right now than on earth, but my work isn't done, there are still things I have to do for God before I go. God bless you all. P.S. i would appreciate if you would all stop calling my faith a cult, it is very insulting and if you have no faith of your own you can quit critisizing people who actually make and effort to make a difference.
Ok, so go ahead and let your babies and children die without medical help, that don't have a choice and can't speak for themselves and make their own decisions to die like you do. You've got a great head start already on being a DEATH CULT you self righteous twit.
Jack

United States

#12 Jun 23, 2008
This is very interesting, guess what I grew up southern Baptist and I married a woman that is a part of this church. Now for her to marry outside the faith was wrong according to the church but this happens a lot. All the other religions of the world have their downfalls also. How many Baptist do you know that go out and drink, curse, and raise hell on Saturday night and then go to church on Sunday morning? I know a lot. I won't even go into the Catholics or any other religion for that matter. I guess what I am saying is that this church of Christianity is a lot like the others and everybody interprets the bible in a different way. When my kids were born I gave my wife the option of having them at home or at a hospital. I told her that for me to have an ambulance and doctor standing by was going to cost me a lot though. We had both of our kids at a hospital. The thing is that God would not have given us the knowledge to heal if we weren't supposed to use it. On another note if it is your time and God is ready to take you it doesn't matter where you’re at or WHO is taking care of you it is time. Before you bash a persons religion you should study just what they believe and why because you might believe the same. Everything this church practices is in the Bible and if read and understood be interped the way the church believes. Should there be laws protecting children? Sure, but is it abuse for you to raise you child how you see fit? I don't know all I do know is that I will get my children help when available and if it is going against the word of God I will ask for his mercy. We all have our sins and in the end is when you will know what was right and what was wrong. For the family of the dececease I pray for you and hope that you see it is not our place for vengeances or to judge and I am sorry it is so hard on you It would be hard on me as well. Under the definition of a Cult all religions can be consider a cult but as far as the General Assembly and Church of the First Born they are no worse than any other religions out there they are just picked on because they are not followers they are leaders. By the way I am not a member of the faith and probably never will be because I don't agree with all their teachings but I don't agree with the teaching of any other Christian religion either but I am a Christian I do believe in God our Father and our savior Jesus Christ and have had my sin washed away and now I pray for anymore sin committed daily to be forgiven.

Love is the Key
Jack

United States

#13 Jun 23, 2008
Folks, this is dangerous "religion", just another case of spiritually ignorant people buying into a false and wicked doctrine that some church "leadership" has set up directly opposing the loving and life-giving truths of Jesus.
If these people would only diligently study the Word of God for themselves, instead of listening to what some "preacher" tells them, they just might come to know the truth that Jesus said would set them free.

these people do just exactly what you said and are free and that why they chose how they do.

we are all free to worship how we want you don't have to agree with it but if they do then thats their choice and as for the lady that died if she was okay right after the baby was born then got worse later thats kinda of fishy but that is what she chose to be in and hopefully she was right with the Lord.
Frisco

Dallas, TX

#15 Jul 14, 2008
Sarah wrote:
thats my sister in law that bled to death in her bed. I HATE THIS CHURCH.
I got a call today taht my great uncle, who is a elder in this church passed away yesterday. Of course we will never know what he died of because none of them seek medical attention. For me on this side of my family there will be no medical history for me or my children.
So sorry for your loss. I understand your hatred. I am a Christian and will never understand the teachings of this church.
One Upset Mother

United States

#16 Aug 24, 2008
I am so pis*ed at this "religion"... CULT.
There has to be a law passed nation wide, not just a state to state law, that has to state that any unborn child and children under the age of 18 must receive medical attention. You people who claim that "God will heal us" are more than welcome to do as you damn well please, but these babies and kids do not know any better and they need protection from YOU.
As for you "not a cult" piss off. It is a cult, otherwise you wouldn't have to brain wash those who know the real God and his word to join in. You people take bits and pieces of the Bible and make it work to fit your lives. ALL church of the firstborn are hypocritical! Here's an example of your fu*ked up stuff: My child, who was born a Baptist but now in your sh*t because my child married into it, tried telling me that the Ten Commandments were made in the New Testament. Bullsh*t!!! Anyone who has read the Bible knows that they were made in the First Testament.
You people make me sick. Each and every one of you must be held liable for your actions and do prison time or be executed for any deaths that occur due to lack of medical treatment. And more than 4 months, as it was done to a couple from your cult here in Oklahoma where their 4 month old child died from pneumonia.
Tell me this - if God did not want there to be physicians, why did he give some of us the intelligence to be medical people? He gives us the ability to be who and what we are. Not YOU or the cult.
If a person is not of your cult when they marry into a family of the cult, then they are shunned or the cult member becomes shunned. That is not how religion works. That is not how God works. He loves and accepts everyone who accepts Him. It doesn't matter what color they are, what they do for a living, or what religion they belong to. As long as you believe and accept Jesus Christ, that's good enough for Him.
Oh and on a closing note - do a google search for religions. Your cult will not show up as a religion. Take that one and shove it up your a*s!
razorback

AOL

#17 Oct 3, 2008
one question? How many babies have died at the hand of a doctor? If you do your research you will find that it is almost as many as have died at home. check it out.
One Upset Mother

United States

#18 Oct 6, 2008
razorback wrote:
one question? How many babies have died at the hand of a doctor? If you do your research you will find that it is almost as many as have died at home. check it out.
True, babies and children do die at the hands of the doctors... BUT, more than 1/2 of those that have died while under doctor care came from the "Church" of the Firstborn. For whatever reason, the members of this "church" keep their babies/children home until they get scared and the baby/child is almost dead then rush them to the hospital or to a doctor's office and then get all pissy and high n' mighty because the doctor didn't save your child. Maybe if the parents had gotten the baby/child there sooner, with God's help, the doctors could have helped out more.

The end result is that it is all in God's hands. Good or bad.

It does not take much to figure out that God helps those that help themselves.

Answer me this, if you can. Why do certain individuals have the special talent and knowledge that God placed in them to be doctors? If He did not intend for doctors to treat and help people, not cure them, then why did He give that ability to them? I cannot get one person from this belief to answer that question.

Just a thought.

Far From Perfect

El Reno, OK

#19 Oct 13, 2008
I'm sorry but I have to say one more thing One Upset Mother, you amuse me. I really really want to see where your statistics came from that state that half of all babies/children that have died in hospitals have come from this church. That is not even hard to understand, but totally unbelievable and impossible.
Far From Perfect

El Reno, OK

#20 Oct 15, 2008
It's wonderful too how no one can get an answer across politely when it makes perfect sense because someone moderates and doesn't want a logical answer served forth. Wow. Way to go world. Two steps back again.
One Upset Mother

United States

#21 Oct 26, 2008
I'm so glad that I amaze you... you go dig up your own information. I had to.

I'm not here to fight... it started out a place to vent, but now it's because I'm trying to figure out why certain people do the things that they do.

And still yet, my LOGICAL question still goes unanswered: "Answer me this, if you can. Why do certain individuals have the special talent and knowledge that God placed in them to be doctors? If He did not intend for doctors to treat and help people, not cure them, then why did He give that ability to them? I cannot get one person from this belief to answer that question."
One Upset Mother

United States

#22 Oct 26, 2008
My mistake... not amaze, but amuse you. How comical is that?

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