Let Birth Mothers Keep Anonymity

Let Birth Mothers Keep Anonymity

There are 77 comments on the Hartford Courant story from May 31, 2007, titled Let Birth Mothers Keep Anonymity. In it, Hartford Courant reports that:

I am horrified by the proposal of state Sens. Bill Finch and Ed Meyer regarding adoption records in Connecticut [Page 1, May 30, "Unlocking The Past"]. I was adopted as an infant in the early 1970s, and I ...

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BSharp

Lock Haven, PA

#61 Jun 7, 2007
CTMom wrote:
<quoted text>
Adoptees have the right to apply and pay for an ammended birth certificate and a regular birth certificate. Doesn't mean they'll get both. I have a right to work and apply for work, doesn't mean I'll get the job. If states and federal gov't recognizes ammended bc, then for all intents and purposes the rights of adoptees have been met. States and federal gov't can't possibly recognize both an ammended certificate and an initial birth certificate, for the same person, because the official information on both is inherrently different (parentage).
Sorry, CTMom, you just don't get it. Here, I'll shout it for you: THE AMENDED BIRTH CERTIFICATES ARE ALL LIES!

Is that clear enough? They state that this person was born on this day to this mother. Not true. In a shocking number of cases, even the birth date and place were deliberately falsified. How would you like if you found out that all of the facts of your very existence had been obliterated and lies installed in their stead?
No Burfmuggle Am I

Lumberton, TX

#62 Jun 7, 2007
""You are not helping the cause of open records by bringing in a debate over insider language ""

Mac..the only one starting a debate and/or ruckus here about 'insider language' is you! Give it a rest already.. You can be anything you want to be...it is your right as a human being.

Since: Jun 07

Omaha, NE

#63 Jun 7, 2007
CTMom wrote:
<quoted text>
For some people, the conditions around the conception, pregnancy or birth are very painful and they don't want to relive it. These people gave up their rights of parentage effectively releasing them from any obligations to these adult children, and should be given the respect to continue living their lives as they chose. Interestingly, nobody is arguing for THEIR sides..
Ummmm, CTMom - I think you're missing something very fundamental here. First you comment that "these people" (meaning natural mothers, I presume) gave up their rights of parentage. And then you say that you find it interesting that nobody is argueing for THEIR side.

Aren't you reading everything? The majority of posters are are like myself - women who lost our children to adoption not usually because we wanted to, but because we were young and encouraged or even forced to do so without support. No mother forgets that she has a child out there somewhere even if the experience was painful. And in every single case, the natural mothers posting here are supporting adoptees right to their original bc -not the amended one with the lies.

May I ask why you are ignoring all of the moms here posting to say that we did not ask for confidentiality? That it was imposed upon us against our will?

Are you perhaps an adoptive mother? With all due respect, unless you are a natural mother who lost your child to adoption or an adoptee, I'm not sure why it's so important to you to deny adopted people and natural mothers information about each other.
No Burfmuggle Am I

Lumberton, TX

#64 Jun 7, 2007
""for the same person, because the official information on both is inherrently different (parentage).""

CTmom...The 'Official' information you speak of is 'inherently' different parentage?? The Original BC is The Truth of one's family of origin, the Amended BC is a Legalized Lie! Adoptive parents do not give birth to the children they adopt, yet the ABC says exactly that. Just because it is 'official' in your eyes, does not make it the truth. It is an 'official' lie. So are you saying that the Amended BC is correct and truth-telling? To whom? And since when does one equate a birth certificate to applying for a job? Your logic mystifies me!
No Burfmuggle Am I

Lumberton, TX

#65 Jun 7, 2007
CTMom said...""For some people, the conditions around the conception, pregnancy or birth are very painful and they don't want to relive it""

And you know this how??? Are you a mother who has lost a baby to adoption? Unless you have experienced same.. you are only stating your own opinion, not fact. Sooooo... what what are you? Adopted person, natural mother, adoptive parent or just one of the general public who is weighing in on the subject of Open Records???
a Voice

Harmonsburg, PA

#66 Jun 7, 2007
CTMom said,
"As for agencies lying- why would someone not believe them? "

Oh pleeze.... as if the only time agencies are deemed capable of lying is when one of it's customers aren't satisfied with their purchase.

CTMom said,
"And why would any reasonable
person, capable of respecting someone else's wishes, decide to go against
what these agencies said and find the info out anyways?"

* A 'reasonable' person would understand babies weren't waiting at the agencies at the time adopters contracted with them for a baby, a healthy baby.
* A 'reasonable' person would understand these agencies are in the business to successfully separate babies from their momma's because paying customers are waiting.
* A 'reasonable' person would understand these agencies receive thousands of dollars in exchange for a healthy baby.
* A 'reasonable' person would understand these agencies are in it for their own interests and will protect it at any and all costs, and that includes lying.
* A 'reasonable' person would understand
to "go against what these agencies said" because they clearly understand exactly what these agencies really do:
separate babies from their momma's for money.
a Voice

Harmonsburg, PA

#67 Jun 7, 2007
CTMom said,
"The ties are severed."

The ties between a mother and child can never be severed. It can only be intruded upon.
a Voice

Harmonsburg, PA

#68 Jun 7, 2007
A mother tells the agency to give information to her child should he ask.
The adult child goes to the agency throughout the course of his life asking for information and each time the agency lies to him.

Along comes someone like CTMom who says, "Surely, your adult son couldn't have used the "but I know she would have wanted it this way" argument because he didn't know you at all- he just decided he knew better and his wants trumped whatever else he was told. Just like the supportive groups that helped Finch."

CTMom: No adopted person or mother should accept what is "told" by a third party. Especially when that third party's vested interest is keeping a mother and child separated. Nor is it any third party's place to infer with sealed records.
He is my son and I am his mother. We were from the beginning and will always be. No one ever had the right to intrude upon us in the first place and now they never will again.
Only in the human trafficking world of
adoption does someone think a separated mother and child should be a dead and buried mother and child. What an utterly ugly crime against humanity.
No Burfmuggle Am I

Lumberton, TX

#69 Jun 9, 2007
""So adoptees have a "right" to birth certificates- yet adoptees are often renamed and the birth parents have no way or "right" to obtaining that information. Nor do they have a right to school records, or juvenile records, or medical records, etc. The ties are severed. Why should adoptees be given a right to their birth parents' information, but the vice versa is not true. ""

On this count you are absolutely correct. Surrendering mothers are entitled to nothing under the law, NOTHING, in regards to their children lost to adoption. I cannot say for sure what paperwork surrendering mothers of today are entitled to. But most of the Mothers from the Closed Era were denied everything, every scrap of paper that our own names appeared on and of our own children PRIOR to surrender. Many of us have had to literally fight to obtain some non-identifying info and for the greatest majority, the OBC that has our name on it, that was created BEFORE the surrender, is still denied to us mothers. That OBC should have been a given to us mothers, as this legal document was created when our children were still 'lawfully' our own children. We cannot obtain a copy of the ABC, we cannot have the medical records of our children nor their school records, nada. The majority of us mothers from the Closed Era never even knew the people who would be deemed more worthy to raise our children. That includes even their names. Even when mothers and now adult children are in reunion, the agencies, etc. will still deny us anything from our files, which YES! are still held at the adoption agency level. Even 30, 40 years after the fact. These Files have our names plastered all over them, yet we are denied even a peep into those 'files' still stored in file cabinets. Open Records should be Equal Access for both adult adopted person and the mother as well. I surrendered my parental rights, not my Human or Civil Rights...or did I?
No Burfmuggle Am I

Lumberton, TX

#70 Jun 9, 2007
Please read the entire article at this link. I thought it interesting and thought provoking.

http://adoptionneed toread.blogspot. com/2005/ 03/degenerative- policy-design- examination. html

About Open Records and The Debate for and against.
Excerpt.......

The group advocating to maintain sealed records are, for the most part, members of the “advantaged” class—affluent adoptive parents. As members of this group they carry a positive social construct and are thought to be deserving. They are solidly a part of the middle to upper class. Their inability to have biological children evokes empathy and there decision to adopt is viewed as commendable. On this issue they have demonstrated their ability to organize and influence policy decisions. The most effective strategy for the closed records advocates it to continue to frame the issue as their protecting birthparents rights to privacy. This is one, if not the only, justification to oppose the adult adoptees' claim of rights to their birth records. This group must also continue to assert their claim that closed records are good for society and that their position protects children from the conflicts between adults. Adoption is a popular political issue and the advocates of sealed records will do well to promote their position as promoting family values.
The advocates of open records and their activities can best be understood by viewing them as an emergent contending group whose power lies mainly in their legal, ethical, and moral claims for equality and justice (Schneider & Ingram, 1997). In the legislative arena this group is no match for the elite advantaged group. While they may continue the policy battle in the legislatures it is most likely that the courts are their best avenue for opening birth records. As these groups continue their advocacy with the backing of the professional groups and positive portrayal in the media, their power and ability to impact the policy debate will improve. Their cause will best be served by continuing to frame open records as a justice issue and their birth records as their rights. The advocacy groups have been successful in moving the public perception of adult adoptees from a status of dependency to a status of emerging contender. Their challenge is to continue their progress toward being seeing as deserving of their rights and refuting claims that this is being done at the expense of adoptive parents are birthparents.
Their most effective role in the policy debate is to dispute the claims of the sealed records advocates that they are protecting the privacy rights of birthparents, a right which studies have shown is not wanted by almost 95% of birthparents.(Samuels, 2001)"
Cath

Leicester, UK

#71 Jun 11, 2007
Mr. Barry Westcott, you do not speak for me! I am a reunited natural mother. I was NEVER promised anonymity from my son. I don't want it, I don't need and I don't want ill-informed people like you telling me what I want when it is very clear to all that you don't. Just read all the comments from ALL the mothers here if you don't believe me. Furthermore, haven laws do not work - the same number of babies still get abandoned each year. If closed adoptions are so good, why are more people demanding open ones - because they WANT to be known to their sons and daughters. The abortion rate actually goes down because of this. I suggest you do your homework and stop pretending you know what I want because you clearly do not.
Cath

Leicester, UK

#72 Jun 11, 2007
One other thing - adoption agencies lie to adoptive parents about the health of the adoptee so that the adoptee does not get returned back to them!! It's true.

If I had not found my son, he could have died from this (blacking out from very low blood pressure). He blacked out when he was skiing and it almost killed him when he crashed into a tree. I have taught him how to cope with it as no one was told about this nor did they realise that there were certain measures to take to prevent it from occurring.

I suggest that ALL adoptees do what my adopted friends did in Canada - sue the government for with-holding their medical information! Losing money is about the ONLY thing the government understands. They soon opened the records there! Ontario will be opening the records in Sept for this very reason.
Cath

Leicester, UK

#73 Jun 11, 2007
CTMom wrote:
Dr. Westcott's comments make sense. What good is a birth certificate? It is the medical history which is truly important.
News Flash for you - it DOES matter about the birth certificate because it matters where you were born!
The place where you were born could have serious health implications (I sure would want to know if I was born in Chenobol as the cancer risk would be very high!).

The very fact that the place of birth can be changed on the amended certificate is a serious matter. Some amended certificates even go so far as to change the nationality of the adoptee. This in itself has caused problems for those US adoptees of Sister Mary Henry of PEI Canada who are now stateless as the paperwork is worthless.

http://www.laborlawtalk.com/archive/index.php...

Yes, the original birth certificate matters - it has the truth of where a person was born which as explained earlier could have devastating implications if the adoptee is unaware of them.
joan

United States

#74 Jun 11, 2007
Hi, Kansas is open. So is Alaska. All an adoptee has to do is ask. Since the parent gave away their rights
then whose rights are the gov't protecting.
Most people don't want to be where they aren't wanted.
Joan
CTMom wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you read the article? Finch stated he wanted medical history information to be able to give his childrens' pediatricians. So yes, that is what he was after. I'm not presuming- it's right there in black and white.
As for agencies lying- why would someone not believe them? They do give out information all the time, when agreed to. And why would any reasonable person, capable of respecting someone else's wishes, decide to go against what these agencies said and find the info out anyways? Surely, your adult son couldn't have used the "but I know she would have wanted it this way" argument because he didn't know you at all- he just decided he knew better and his wants trumped whatever else he was told. Just like the supportive groups that helped Finch.
I think people, like yourself, can't see that not everyone wants to be reunited with their birth children. For some people, the conditions around the conception, pregnancy or birth are very painful and they don't want to relive it. These people gave up their rights of parentage effectively releasing them from any obligations to these adult children, and should be given the respect to continue living their lives as they chose. Interestingly, nobody is arguing for THEIR sides. So adoptees have a "right" to birth certificates- yet adoptees are often renamed and the birth parents have no way or "right" to obtaining that information. Nor do they have a right to school records, or juvenile records, or medical records, etc. The ties are severed. Why should adoptees be given a right to their birth parents' information, but the vice versa is not true.
buckeye

Kenly, NC

#75 Jun 13, 2007
At least half the children in America are living in families with "step," absent or unrelated parents and millions have died in abortions. I don't know why some of you adoptees have this idea that your situation is so unusual or special, considering. Everyone in my family fits one of those descriptions or another. You are lucky you were given birth, the mother risks her life during pregnancy and could easily have chosen otherwise. Comments like "she deserves nothing and should have kept her legs shut" sounds very abusive. It's also stupid, considering you would never have been born if she did. Bad things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people, it's your CHOICE what kind you are going to be. Get real and grow up. If you care so much, adopt some children of your own like my family did. The birth mothers of these kids are nothing to write home about, but the children do have access if they want it. They don't. Life goes on... some of us embrace it and do the best we can and some choose anger, revenge, self pity and any number of loser mentalities. You didn't see Dave Thomas, the founder of Wendy's, acting that way. He was adopted, too.

Since: Jun 07

Omaha, NE

#76 Jun 13, 2007
buckeye wrote:
. You didn't see Dave Thomas, the founder of Wendy's, acting that way. He was adopted, too.
I think you are totally missing the point. Adopted people are not whining because they are asking to have information about their birth - it is a reasonable and appropriate response to a terrible flaw in our legal system, buckeye. Just because your adopted children have access to their natural family if they want it, that does not mean all adopted people have that luxury. Your condescending and scolding manner is offensive to me and I am not even adopted. Instead I am the natural/first mother of someone who was adopted and i can assure you that I AM something to write home about. Don't be so dismissive about an issue that doesn't affect you personally.

And by the way, Dave Thomas's children have publicly admitted that he had many emotional issues due to his having been adopted. Are you aware that Ted Bundy, Sam Berkowitz and several others of that *ilk* are also adopted?
Cath

Leicester, UK

#77 Jun 13, 2007
Carol - I agree with you.

Let's not forget those adoptive parents who have killed our children!

Or those adoptive parents in Toronto that kept children in CAGES for 13 years!!

They're nothing to write home about either!

No community is without its criminals - not even the adopters one!

I am a fit mother but I did not give my consent. When my son's father and I complained about my ex stalking and abusing me, did the police arrest him - Oh no!

They took our son from us instead!!

That is like saying that the victim of a mugging is to blame for the crime. That how it was 30 years ago.

I have reunited with my son - and he thinks I am worth writing home about - which he has actually done!
(happily reunited for 4 years now).

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