Officer rescues woman in Billerica

[The West Newton Kid]

local cop wrote:

<quoted text>
what a cop makes on a detail has no effect on his pension in any way shape or form. Even Stated auditor Denucci agrees that Flag men will not save any money. How about the fact that Devals secretary of public safety owns a flag man company and is the largest supporter of the bill?

Go reread my post, Einstein. My point is that nearly all of the State Police details out on our highways are totally unnecessary. We do not need to replace the Mass State cops with Flagmen out on our highways. The Flagmen would be doing nothing; which is what most all of the Mass State cops are doing. Again, go reread my post. We can get rid of the Mass State cops sitting on their duffs in their cruisers and doing nothing. And, we do not need to replace them with Flagmen. It is a cost savings, ol' pal. And, there are no if's, and's or but's about it.

And, yes, the Mass State cops DO get time and a half pay with a 4 hour minimum for these frivilous details. Let's stick with the truth. It is easier on the Readers.

Again, you boobs are so concerned with defending these frivolous police details that you make a fool out of yourselves relentlessly and feebly trying to defend them!

[I think not]

The West Newton Kid wrote:

<quoted text>
Go reread my post, Einstein. My point is that nearly all of the State Police details out on our highways are totally unnecessary. We do not need to replace the Mass State cops with Flagmen out on our highways. The Flagmen would be doing nothing; which is what most all of the Mass State cops are doing. Again, go reread my post. We can get rid of the Mass State cops sitting on their duffs in their cruisers and doing nothing. And, we do not need to replace them with Flagmen. It is a cost savings, ol' pal. And, there are no if's, and's or but's about it.
And, yes, the Mass State cops DO get time and a half pay with a 4 hour minimum for these frivilous details. Let's stick with the truth. It is easier on the Readers.
Again, you boobs are so concerned with defending these frivolous police details that you make a fool out of yourselves relentlessly and feebly trying to defend them!

State Police Detail pay is a seperate part of their contract. This money doesn't come out of the State Police Payroll, it's paid by the contractor.

[Be More Informed]

Yeah we can really rely on people to act and call 911! Has anyone ever heard of Kitty Genovese? That alone gives me a lot of faith in people. And how bout that level 3 sex offender that was hired as a flagman working a detail in Boxford. I would surely put my faith in that individual to help me out. Not only did he probably make more than a police officer working that detail, he also tied up police services because the cops had to go door to door and notify everybody about this level 3 diddler. Start doing your research people and what Deval fails to tell you is that he has a state police cruiser sitting in his driveway all the time manning his million dollar home in Richmond, MA. Let the taxing begin, oh wait it has already begun.

[LIEberal]

Deval has a Trooper with him 24 Hrs. a day. This trooper, unlike the troopers doing construction details, gets paid from the State Police Payroll. The Detail Trooper on Construction detail gets paid by the contractor.

Why don't we replace Deval's Trooper with a civilian flagman?

[The West Newton Kid]

I think not wrote:

<quoted text>
State Police Detail pay is a seperate part of their contract. This money doesn't come out of the State Police Payroll, it's paid by the contractor.

And, since our tax dollars go the the Contractors who are repairing and rebuilding our highways; and these Contractors have been forced into paying countless Mass State cops to sit on their butts doing nothing at these construction sites; we all pay for it.

You boobs like to pretend that if it doesn't come out of the police budget; it is somehow a freebie. But, you know as well as I do that this is sheer nonsense. Anyone paying taxes in Mass is paying towards the mandatory requirements of having countless Mass State cops sitting in idling cruisers doing nothing, in order to fatten their wallets.

Again, we all pay for it one way or another. We do not need to replace these freeloading scam artists with a Flagman. The Mass State cop is serving no purpose whatsoever most all of the time. A Flagman is not needed.

[citizen]

wow wrote:

<quoted text>
No. Officers detail pay is NOT figured into their pensions. Absolutly not, although I wish it was:)

Is ovetime figured into their pension?

My opinion is, if details do not figure into their pension and it costs about the same to have flagmen, give the details to the cops. Their base pay is not that high.

I don't think overtime should be figured into their pension. their pension should be on their base pay only.

[I think not]

The West Newton Kid wrote:

<quoted text>
And, since our tax dollars go the the Contractors who are repairing and rebuilding our highways; and these Contractors have been forced into paying countless Mass State cops to sit on their butts doing nothing at these construction sites; we all pay for it.
You boobs like to pretend that if it doesn't come out of the police budget; it is somehow a freebie. But, you know as well as I do that this is sheer nonsense. Anyone paying taxes in Mass is paying towards the mandatory requirements of having countless Mass State cops sitting in idling cruisers doing nothing, in order to fatten their wallets.
Again, we all pay for it one way or another. We do not need to replace these freeloading scam artists with a Flagman. The Mass State cop is serving no purpose whatsoever most all of the time. A Flagman is not needed.

Can you post without calling people names when they disagree with you? Your approach is quite childish and is evident of a lack of intellect.

You said,

"the Mass State cops DO get time and a half pay with a 4 hour minimum for these frivilous details. Let's stick with the truth. It is easier on the Readers."

Well, You are wrong and you should practice what you preach and "Stick with the truth" They don't get paid Time and a half at a 4 hour minimum. Because, it doesn't even come out of the payroll. We "Boobs" don't have to pretend that it doesn't come out of the Police Budget because it doesn't. They get paid by the Contractors, not the Police Department. They get paid a set rate per hour and if they are on the detail for more that 8 hours, they don't get that rate + half either. The rate stays the same.

Regardless of what your opinion is on their value, I was saved by a Trooper on a highway detail when my Tie Rod broke on 93 and a Detail Trooper watched my car flip over the guard rail. If he wasn't there to pull me out of my car, I would have burned to death. Instead, I came out of it with a broken shoulder and a concussion. Thanks to Massachusetts Finest being on a detail. So, there's nothing that you can say to me that will convince me that there's no value in detail officers - on the highway or otherwise.

[The West Newton Kid]

I think not wrote:

<quoted text>
Can you post without calling people names when they disagree with you? Your approach is quite childish and is evident of a lack of intellect.
You said,
"the Mass State cops DO get time and a half pay with a 4 hour minimum for these frivilous details. Let's stick with the truth. It is easier on the Readers."
Well, You are wrong and you should practice what you preach and "Stick with the truth" They don't get paid Time and a half at a 4 hour minimum. Because, it doesn't even come out of the payroll. We "Boobs" don't have to pretend that it doesn't come out of the Police Budget because it doesn't. They get paid by the Contractors, not the Police Department. They get paid a set rate per hour and if they are on the detail for more that 8 hours, they don't get that rate + half either. The rate stays the same.
Regardless of what your opinion is on their value, I was saved by a Trooper on a highway detail when my Tie Rod broke on 93 and a Detail Trooper watched my car flip over the guard rail. If he wasn't there to pull me out of my car, I would have burned to death. Instead, I came out of it with a broken shoulder and a concussion. Thanks to Massachusetts Finest being on a detail. So, there's nothing that you can say to me that will convince me that there's no value in detail officers - on the highway or otherwise.

Wow, you don't say! What a coincidence; I was saved by a Flagman once!

A large herd of angry bulls escaped from a stockyard. And, they were headed straight towards me. Needless to say, I was panick sticken. I knew that I was a deadman. There was no place to run and no place to hide. Luckily for me; there was road construction going on nearby; in a state were they used Flagmen instead of cops for road details. They Flagman jumped in at the last second; and started to wave his large orange flag at the stampeding bulls! And, they took a sudden detour and my life was spared! I'll never forget it. The bravery of that Flagman was beyond reproach. Thank the Lord that he was in the area; or I wouldn't be here today.......

[The West Newton Kid]

I think not wrote:

<quoted text>
We "Boobs" don't have to pretend that it doesn't come out of the Police Budget because it doesn't. They get paid by the Contractors, not the Police Department.

Hey Boob; how's it going?

Obviously, reading comprehension was never one of your strong points. Go back and reread my post. I made a point of saying that the Contractors have been forced into paying our Mass State cops to sit on their duffs doing nothing whatsover on highway jobs. And, I made a point of saying that our tax dollars are paying these Contractors; so we all pay our Mass State cops for doing nothing at these highway details. I know that it it not coming out of the police budget; but that does not mean that we are not stuck paying for it.

Don't ignore the obvious for the sake of your weak argument!

[Be More Informed]

Hey West Newton Child I don't know if you are up to date on your flagman legislation or even aware that Deval is in bed with the state police. The new legislation only hurts the local police departments. If you read the legislation it states that detail cops are mandatory on state roads with a posted speed limit of 45 mph and above. Which means that you will continue to see state police officers on the highways and roads with speed limits at 45 and above.

[Flaggers Make Sense]

Independent Analysis: http://www.beaconhill.org/PoliceDetails/BHIPo...
In 2004, the Boston-based Beacon Hill Institute studied the cost of police details to the public. Let's review some actual data points.
From their Executive Summary:
"Using regression analysis on data provided by 103
police departments around the state, we have estimated the cost of police details for Massachusetts and assessed the argument that police details increase public safety. We find that the police details are unnecessarily costly and that there is no evidence that public safety benefits from the unnecessary costs that they impose."
Cost:
"Police officers in Massachusetts cities and towns earned an estimated $141.4 million working off-duty details in 2003. Of this amount, officers working traffic assignments received approximately
$93.3 million. This estimate applies to local police only. It excludes detail pay earned by state
police officers.
· The users of police details include public utilities, local government, real estate developers and entertainment venues such as Six Flags New England.
Police details usually provide either security or traffic control services. Both services could be provided more cheaply by civilian personnel.
We limit our attention here to police details hired to control traffic in work zones other than highway work zones. The use of civilian flaggers
in these work zones would have saved Massachusetts businesses and taxpayers $36.5 to $66.5 million last year."
Safety:
In Massachusetts, cities and towns generally require police details to control traffic in work zones on local roads. The other 49 states allow civilian flaggers, rather than uniformed police officers, to handle much of this traffic. If police details increase traffic safety, it should be possible to find supporting evidence in traffic-accident data. Massachusetts should be a safer place to drive, as measured by data relating to accident rates.
To the end of determining whether this is in fact true, we examined data on property damage and bodily injury claims resulting from automobile accidents for the 50 states and for 16 metropolitan areas, including Boston.
These data show that by two measures, Massachusetts
is not safer than other states but is, in fact, the least safe state in which to drive. Specifically:
· Massachusetts has the worst accident rate in the nation, as measured by accidents causing property damage.
· It has the second worst accident rate in the nation, as measured by accidents causing bodily injury.
· Accident rates are higher in Boston than in 15 comparable metropolitan areas that do not ordinarily use police details in work zones.
These findings are all statistically significant.
On the basis of all the available evidence, we must conclude that police details, used in work zones on local roads, do not improve traffic safety but do add substantially to construction
costs and other costs."

[The West Newton Kid]

Excellent post! Thanks for the info!

Obviously, the police are getting scared that their free ride will come to an end. And, that is why they relentlessly try to defend these frivolous police details.

The cops watched in horror as the Quinn Bill was finally ended. The Taxpayers knew that the Quinn Bill was a total sham; and it's only purpose was to fatten the wallets of our lawmen.

And, the cops watched in disbelief as the Voters of Massachusetts decided that possession of one ounze or less of marijuana was no longer a criminal offense.

The cops have seen the power of the Voters of Massachusetts. And, they do not want the free ride to end with these horsesh#t police details. The last thing the cops want is the Voters of Massachusetts deciding whether or not to continue to pay cops for doing virtually nothing at police details. So, the cops and their unions are scrambling to attempt to add some sort of credibility to these police details. Just look at the effort that they have put into this story.

The problem for the cops; when it comes to these police details is this: Actions speak louder than words. And, inaction also speaks louder than words. All of us have witnessed an endless barrage of both local and state police working at these details and doing nothing whatsoever. Again, we have all seen it. So, no matter what kind of nonsense that the cops and their unions try to pass off here on Topix Forum; we can all see straight through it. It is nothing more than a well planned effort to attempt to add credibility to something that has no value.

[I think not]

The West Newton Kid wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey Boob; how's it going?
Obviously, reading comprehension was never one of your strong points. Go back and reread my post. I made a point of saying that the Contractors have been forced into paying our Mass State cops to sit on their duffs doing nothing whatsover on highway jobs. And, I made a point of saying that our tax dollars are paying these Contractors; so we all pay our Mass State cops for doing nothing at these highway details. I know that it it not coming out of the police budget; but that does not mean that we are not stuck paying for it.
Don't ignore the obvious for the sake of your weak argument!

You are dismissed for being childish. If you can't debate like an adult, then your points are pointless.

[karen]

I would like to actually make a comment on the story itself.Nice job to the officer. I would hope if my daughter was in need someone like you would be around to help !!

[The West Newton Kid]

In post number 32 above, I mispelled ounce. I spelled it ounze. So, before the Typo Police rip me apart; I confess to the mistake.......

[The West Newton Kid]

karen wrote:

I would hope if my daughter was in need someone like you would be around to help !!

I would hope for the same thing. But, I wouldn't want to be paying the cop any Detail Pay when he jumped in to help. I would want him to get involved while he was performing his job. The job that we pay him to perform.

Let's not let the cops fool us into thinking that we are all safer when cops are performing a detail. The countless millions of dollars that are wasted on police details are not justified by one or two of these happy ending stories per year!

[Head Honcho]

I think he did a GREAT job! imagine if that was your sister or mom being held against her will.. what would you do?

[The West Newton Kid]

Head Honcho wrote:

I think he did a GREAT job! imagine if that was your sister or mom being held against her will.. what would you do?

You know; it's funny. If any of you have a mom or a sister who are either married to a lawman, or are in a relationship with a lawman; you should be concerned for their well being. The chances of them being held against their will; or of them being a victim of domestic violence, if they are involved with a lawman, is 4 times as likely to happen than if they were involved with a non cop. Studies show that domestic violence happens in law enforcement families 4 times as often than it does in the general public. Roughly 40% of law enforcement families have experienced domestic violence; versus 10% for the general public. And, that is a fact!

[Concerned Resident]

wow wrote:

<quoted text>
The only thing you "failed" to mention was that Flagmen get "billed" out at $56 per hour. Sure they make about $38, but the company they work for bills the state at $56 per hour. I know it's a little hard for some of your simple minds to grasp, but a Flagman at $56 per hour Vs a Police Officer at $40. See any major cost savings here? Sure the Police get "paid" more, but the Police Department charges the state only what the Officers get paid. I know you might get a headache from this but it is what it is.
The 2-4-8 hours that Flagmen have is very similar to the Police 4-8 hrs. If a Flagman shows up and the company contracted by the state does not show up, the Flagman gets 2 hrs. of pay as opposed to the Police Officer who would get 4 hrs. pay. If the Flagmen steps out on the road, he gets 4 hrs. pay just like the Police Officer would. Still don't see any saving considering that if a company hired by the state doesn't show up to work then there is an issue with the management. I can tell you that this doesn't happen. I have never seen a company not show up for work on city or state contracts. It just doesn't happen.
You can say whatever you want about the cops on details, but the bottom line is that Flagmen will actually cost more then Police Officers.
And please don't start with the B.S. of Flagmen not getting billed out at $56 per hour. It is what the signal companies charge the state for each Flagmen per hour. Gov. Patrick did not tell anyone about this, but if you don't believe it, check for yourself.
BTW flagmen do not perform "other" duties when assigned to road construction sites.

I am sorry to interject but I have several friends that are police officers in towns in Massachusetts and they make much, much more that 40$ per hour. I can say this because they brag about how much they make. Not all is what it seems on paper and what the unions put on paper should not always be trusted. I have been at details in many states and I can say from experiences that I have had flag men seem to pay more attention to their duties. With all the police details going on here what I have noticed is police on cell phones chatting away or chatting with workers holding a cup of coffee & not paying attention to the traffic they are put there to direct. I feel police should be paid well BUT for policing the town they work for not details.

[Meep]

waste of money wrote:

<quoted text>
I can't stand Deval and wish he would go away, but are the other 49, yes all other 49 states, wrong as well?
Here's the data from the Massachusetts Office of Transportation and Public Works. I think they may have some idea of the costs. Please have someone read it to you.
http://www.eot.state.ma.us/downloads/PoliceDe...
Since you are probably too lazy (and it doesn't suit your position), let me provide a few of the summary statistics from the analysis. Sorry to use so many big words on you - maybe if you take your time you won't get a headache, but here goes:
•Current police hourly rates are on average 13.01% higher than current road flagger rates (Table 2.1);
•Police collective bargaining agreements typically have 4 (or 4-8) hour minimum reporting time requirements; Laborer collective bargaining agreements have 2-4-8 minimums and allow road flaggers to perform additional functions on a work site when not performing required traffic control duties (See Part III.B);
•The revised traffic management plates, regulations, and use of alternative personnel provide for more efficient placement and use of details, resulting in a projected 28.76% savings over current practice (See Table 5 and Attachment H);
This is a draft and will be revisited, but it sure seems to be pointing towards the use of flaggers as a much better alternative.
I love the name calling at the end of your post. Typical of a person with no facts or intelligent thoughts to support their argument. You're probably some mid-to-low IQ individual who squeaked through high school (if even) and now look to the union to cover for your mid-to-low achievement at work.

Have you driven to NH lately. Awful lot of NH state police cruiser working details on the highway. Now I'll admit I havent traveled to all 49 states, but if there are details in NH there are details in a lot of other places. So you really need to give up the old "only in Ma argument."