Gay couple 'angry' at Boy Scout decision

Gay couple 'angry' at Boy Scout decision

There are 598 comments on the Barre-Montpelier Times-Argus story from Dec 30, 2009, titled Gay couple 'angry' at Boy Scout decision. In it, Barre-Montpelier Times-Argus reports that:

Cate Wirth said Tuesday she was "taken aback" recently when she and her longtime civil union partner, Elizabeth Wirth, were turned down as Cub Scout leaders because of their sexual orientation.

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“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#788 Jan 18, 2010
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's mandatory that morals be a group thing. We live in a society, not on individual islands. All the laws in this country are a "group" thing. You just don't want that because you know that what your after will fall under the catagory of immoral.
laws aren't based upon moral values. they're based upon commmon sense and consensus. that's why there's 'crime'.

laws are mandatory... moral values are pretty universal over a broad spectrum of societies... they have nothing to do with laws.

“"2 roads diverged in a yellow ”

Since: Aug 09

wood. & I tuk d 1 < traveled."

#790 Jan 21, 2010
dances with weebles wrote:
<quoted text>
actually there's only one type of marriage in the u.s... civil. a 'religious' church marriage holds absolutely no value without all the legal documents being filled out and signed. the church official is only acting as a representative of the state when he or she performs a wedding.
Well then, why are all of these people out there screaming about the sanctity of marriage? When I say that there is legal marriage and then there is religious marriage, I indicate that there are some folks who are married / united according to the ways of their faiths but not by law and that there are folks married according to law but not the ways of any faith. I personally can cite examples of both in folks I know.
As for me? My view has been shown. Let's make it LEGAL civilly, but let faiths object as they will. They will do what they want anyway. And for anyone who wants to prevent the "damnation" of the masses...I'm gonna put this as civilly and bluntly as is possible...deal with your own matters before you concern yourself with the salvation of the masses. If each of us would practice this in our own lives, maybe things would be better. IMO right now.

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#791 Jan 21, 2010
Katmandu Child wrote:
<quoted text>
Well then, why are all of these people out there screaming about the sanctity of marriage? When I say that there is legal marriage and then there is religious marriage, I indicate that there are some folks who are married / united according to the ways of their faiths but not by law and that there are folks married according to law but not the ways of any faith. I personally can cite examples of both in folks I know.
As for me? My view has been shown. Let's make it LEGAL civilly, but let faiths object as they will. They will do what they want anyway. And for anyone who wants to prevent the "damnation" of the masses...I'm gonna put this as civilly and bluntly as is possible...deal with your own matters before you concern yourself with the salvation of the masses. If each of us would practice this in our own lives, maybe things would be better. IMO right now.
i'm not arguing the fact that there are 'church weddings'. i know for a fact that it happens because i've performed many of them, both in the u.s. and here. what i'm saying is that in the u.s., if i perform a wedding ceremony i'm acting as a representative of the state... not of the church and i must sign all the legal doccuments. here in brasil, when a couple marries in the church, they must also have a second, civil wedding officiated by a gov't. employee or the 'marriage' has no legal standing. basically, the whole shtick of going through the bit in church is jsut for show.

the ironic thing is that a 'common law' marriage in brasil holds more value than a church wedding. if you wish all marriage rites in brasil all you have to really do is to go to a notary and sign a document saying that you're living together as husband and wife and that you'd like to change your name to reflect that... also, the man can legally change his name to the woman's if he chooses.then the notary stamps it and you're married.
Get Real

Grand Rapids, MI

#794 Jan 21, 2010
dances with weebles wrote:
<quoted text>
laws aren't based upon moral values. they're based upon commmon sense and consensus. that's why there's 'crime'.
laws are mandatory... moral values are pretty universal over a broad spectrum of societies... they have nothing to do with laws.
Conservatism is based on common sense, laws are based on the majority of the people saying this is immoral, or just plain "wrong". Liberals can't even agree there is a "right and wrong".
Get Real

Grand Rapids, MI

#795 Jan 21, 2010
dances with weebles wrote:
<quoted text>
you're wrong. very wrong.
you not only have any idea what i think or want, but you have no idea what the will of the people in 31 states happens to be.
and you're wrong about morals... it's impossible for a value system to be a 'group' thing.
The only option is for values to be an indivdual thing, and that would mean caos and pure selfish behavior. Look at the class warfare that liberals have ginned up so the last several years, and I've worked with poverty people.

There could very easily be a moral code that says, the poor can steal from the rich, but the rich can't steal from the poor. There is your individual moralism. And yes, I realize this scenario already exist through taxation.

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#796 Jan 21, 2010
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Conservatism is based on common sense, laws are based on the majority of the people saying this is immoral, or just plain "wrong". Liberals can't even agree there is a "right and wrong".
you do realise, however, that same sex marriage is being pushed harder by the political conservatives than it is by the liberals, right?

i'm beginning to have serious doubts that you really know the difference between liberal conservative, but simply parrot what you've heard on talk radio.

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#797 Jan 21, 2010
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
The only option is for values to be an indivdual thing, and that would mean caos and pure selfish behavior. Look at the class warfare that liberals have ginned up so the last several years, and I've worked with poverty people.
There could very easily be a moral code that says, the poor can steal from the rich, but the rich can't steal from the poor. There is your individual moralism. And yes, I realize this scenario already exist through taxation.
you have just named it exactly it is... the poor rob from the rich so that they can simply survive.

and yes, moralistic views are individual. it's only through coincidence and common sense that they are, for the most part, alike. and no, it doesn't mean that it would all end in chaos... it, for the most part hasn't yet, anyway.

and i've never said a word either for, nor against taxation.
Get Real

Grand Rapids, MI

#798 Jan 21, 2010
dances with weebles wrote:
<quoted text>
you have just named it exactly it is... the poor rob from the rich so that they can simply survive.
and yes, moralistic views are individual. it's only through coincidence and common sense that they are, for the most part, alike. and no, it doesn't mean that it would all end in chaos... it, for the most part hasn't yet, anyway.
and i've never said a word either for, nor against taxation.
It's not up to the wealthy to have the poor survive, I've seen their survival, it's getting a government check on the 1st of each month, spend it by the second on everything but their children, and stock up on booze until their next check comes. No desire to work and in fact seeing the suggestion of work as an insult.

This is (or until obama came along)the richest country in the world, theres enough here for everyone. If their poor then thats a self inflicted wound. Work hard, make smart decisions, and you will do well here.

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#799 Jan 21, 2010
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not up to the wealthy to have the poor survive, I've seen their survival, it's getting a government check on the 1st of each month, spend it by the second on everything but their children, and stock up on booze until their next check comes. No desire to work and in fact seeing the suggestion of work as an insult.
This is (or until obama came along)the richest country in the world, theres enough here for everyone. If their poor then thats a self inflicted wound. Work hard, make smart decisions, and you will do well here.
the u.s. hasn't been the richest country in ages... they're completely bankrupt and have been borrowing money from other countries for a long time... most recently china.

your 'great american ego' is showing.

also, my first wife was a new york state welfare case worker for several years... what you have expressed here is patently false.

according to the bible it IS not only the responsibility, but the duty of the rich to take care of the poor.

did you know that there is no welfare system in brasil? the u.s. isn't the only place in the world, you know.
Get Real

Grand Rapids, MI

#800 Jan 21, 2010
dances with weebles wrote:
<quoted text>
the u.s. hasn't been the richest country in ages... they're completely bankrupt and have been borrowing money from other countries for a long time... most recently china.
your 'great american ego' is showing.
also, my first wife was a new york state welfare case worker for several years... what you have expressed here is patently false.
according to the bible it IS not only the responsibility, but the duty of the rich to take care of the poor.
did you know that there is no welfare system in brasil? the u.s. isn't the only place in the world, you know.
Our dollar (for the time being) is the standard for the world, we are the richest country there is. Don't tell me what I said was patently false, I deal with poverty stricken areas every day, it's my job, and it is their own attitudes and bigotry that has them, and keeps them, exactly where they are. If your wife is one of the exceptions fine, but don't fool yourself into believing that our government welfare money is being well spent.

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#801 Jan 21, 2010
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Our dollar (for the time being) is the standard for the world, we are the richest country there is. Don't tell me what I said was patently false, I deal with poverty stricken areas every day, it's my job, and it is their own attitudes and bigotry that has them, and keeps them, exactly where they are. If your wife is one of the exceptions fine, but don't fool yourself into believing that our government welfare money is being well spent.
if it's the richest country, they why are there poverty stricken areas?

i did speak in error, however. the dollar is, in fact, the standard, but experts believe that it will soon be overtaken by the chinese.

and no... the dollar is no longer the standard.

“Skeptic, Challenging Belief”

Since: Dec 09

Columbus, OH

#802 Jan 21, 2010
We're also not the richest country. GDP per capita ranks 8th in the world. How did this get so derailed?

I also like the "This is (or until obama came along)the richest country in the world" bullcrap. Because when Bush was in office, we were thriving, right? 2 years ago TODAY was the biggest stock market crash in recent history.

“"2 roads diverged in a yellow ”

Since: Aug 09

wood. & I tuk d 1 < traveled."

#803 Jan 21, 2010
dances with weebles wrote:
<quoted text>
i'm not arguing the fact that there are 'church weddings'. i know for a fact that it happens because i've performed many of them, both in the u.s. and here. what i'm saying is that in the u.s., if i perform a wedding ceremony i'm acting as a representative of the state... not of the church and i must sign all the legal doccuments. here in brasil, when a couple marries in the church, they must also have a second, civil wedding officiated by a gov't. employee or the 'marriage' has no legal standing. basically, the whole shtick of going through the bit in church is jsut for show.
the ironic thing is that a 'common law' marriage in brasil holds more value than a church wedding. if you wish all marriage rites in brasil all you have to really do is to go to a notary and sign a document saying that you're living together as husband and wife and that you'd like to change your name to reflect that... also, the man can legally change his name to the woman's if he chooses.then the notary stamps it and you're married.
That's neat. See, my experience of married couples is of observation. I've seen folks who just went to the local courthouse, paid the fees, and signed the documents. Then, I've seen folks who had a ceremony in accordance with their faith but who never signed any legal documents. That's how I formed my idea of the two different sorts of unions that both fall under the term of "marriage".

“"2 roads diverged in a yellow ”

Since: Aug 09

wood. & I tuk d 1 < traveled."

#804 Jan 21, 2010
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not up to the wealthy to have the poor survive, I've seen their survival, it's getting a government check on the 1st of each month, spend it by the second on everything but their children, and stock up on booze until their next check comes. No desire to work and in fact seeing the suggestion of work as an insult.
This is (or until obama came along)the richest country in the world, theres enough here for everyone. If their poor then thats a self inflicted wound. Work hard, make smart decisions, and you will do well here.

I am a person who once survived off of welfare. I worked then. I work now. I have co-workers who work to supplement their welfare. I did not at any time that I lived on the welfare even TOUCH alcohol.
Of course, there are some out in the public that would say that social security and medicare / medicaid are forms of welfare. Welfare, in a simple form, is when a society pools together it's resources to take care of those who can not take care of themselves. That may be oversimplifying it, but it's a bare-bones definition. I mean no disrespect to a person who is on social security or any other socially-supported aide program.
dances with weebles wrote:
<quoted text>
the u.s. hasn't been the richest country in ages... they're completely bankrupt and have been borrowing money from other countries for a long time... most recently china.
your 'great american ego' is showing.
also, my first wife was a new york state welfare case worker for several years... what you have expressed here is patently false.
according to the bible it IS not only the responsibility, but the duty of the rich to take care of the poor.
did you know that there is no welfare system in brasil? the u.s. isn't the only place in the world, you know.
I want to know, how does Brazil tend to it's elderly and infirm? Do families step up and help them? Villages? Or do they just go off and die when they know they're about to over-burden their society?
Curteese

Long Beach, CA

#805 Jan 22, 2010
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not up to the wealthy to have the poor survive, I've seen their survival, it's getting a government check on the 1st of each month, spend it by the second on everything but their children, and stock up on booze until their next check comes. No desire to work and in fact seeing the suggestion of work as an insult.
This is (or until obama came along)the richest country in the world, theres enough here for everyone. If their poor then thats a self inflicted wound. Work hard, make smart decisions, and you will do well here.
You are SO mean it is incredible. There are many many who are now poor due to cut backs and real estate collapse and the whole terrible mess that is going down. As for Obama causing it, you are blaming the fire department for the fire. Has he done enough? No, but he is a mere mortal, not a magician. You see the constant fight he is fighting.
As for your selfish attitude about self inflicted...I know a family whose young mother developed cancer and they have lost their home due to sky high medical bills. She may loose her medical treatmenst and die anyway. I guess that is her fault and she would be doing well if she had NOT made that decision to develop cancer.
You must be the most pampered little hot house flower alive.
Nice Christian attitude, there, pal.

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#806 Jan 22, 2010
Katmandu Child wrote:
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not up to the wealthy to have the poor survive, I've seen their survival, it's getting a government check on the 1st of each month, spend it by the second on everything but their children, and stock up on booze until their next check comes. No desire to work and in fact seeing the suggestion of work as an insult.
This is (or until obama came along)the richest country in the world, theres enough here for everyone. If their poor then thats a self inflicted wound. Work hard, make smart decisions, and you will do well here.
I am a person who once survived off of welfare. I worked then. I work now. I have co-workers who work to supplement their welfare. I did not at any time that I lived on the welfare even TOUCH alcohol.
Of course, there are some out in the public that would say that social security and medicare / medicaid are forms of welfare. Welfare, in a simple form, is when a society pools together it's resources to take care of those who can not take care of themselves. That may be oversimplifying it, but it's a bare-bones definition. I mean no disrespect to a person who is on social security or any other socially-supported aide program.
<quoted text>
I want to know, how does Brazil tend to it's elderly and infirm? Do families step up and help them? Villages? Or do they just go off and die when they know they're about to over-burden their society?
while there are residence nursing facilities available for the elderly and infirm, normally it's up to the families... and they wouldn't have it any other way.

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#807 Jan 22, 2010
Katmandu Child wrote:
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not up to the wealthy to have the poor survive, I've seen their survival, it's getting a government check on the 1st of each month, spend it by the second on everything but their children, and stock up on booze until their next check comes. No desire to work and in fact seeing the suggestion of work as an insult.
This is (or until obama came along)the richest country in the world, theres enough here for everyone. If their poor then thats a self inflicted wound. Work hard, make smart decisions, and you will do well here.
I am a person who once survived off of welfare. I worked then. I work now. I have co-workers who work to supplement their welfare. I did not at any time that I lived on the welfare even TOUCH alcohol.
Of course, there are some out in the public that would say that social security and medicare / medicaid are forms of welfare. Welfare, in a simple form, is when a society pools together it's resources to take care of those who can not take care of themselves. That may be oversimplifying it, but it's a bare-bones definition. I mean no disrespect to a person who is on social security or any other socially-supported aide program.
<quoted text>
I want to know, how does Brazil tend to it's elderly and infirm? Do families step up and help them? Villages? Or do they just go off and die when they know they're about to over-burden their society?
oh yeah... and here in our neighborhood we have many elderly people who live alone or with a sibling... the neighbors all check on them daily and help them attend to their needs.

“YOU KIDS GET OFF OF MY LAWN !”

Since: May 09

San Francisco

#808 Mar 12, 2010
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's mandatory that morals be a group thing. We live in a society, not on individual islands. All the laws in this country are a "group" thing. You just don't want that because you know that what your after will fall under the catagory of immoral.
Muslims are growing rapidly in number in Michigan. It will be interesting when there are enough of them to vote on YOUR rights. "Sharia" anyone? After all....it's what the "group" thinks is right that is right.....right?

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