Expert says rock walls did not cause ...

Expert says rock walls did not cause erosion -- Newsday

There are 16 comments on the Newsday story from Apr 1, 2008, titled Expert says rock walls did not cause erosion -- Newsday. In it, Newsday reports that:

A beach erosion dispute that has escalated to a federal court case continued Tuesday with an expert representing Suffolk County testifying that rock ocean walls built by the county did not cause shoreline ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

brenda

Denver, CO

#1 Apr 1, 2008
All one needs to do is do a search on any map program like google earth or yahoo, check the satellite imagery, and focus on the south shore of Long Island.

Then take an even cursory look at which side of the groins have the most beach buildup. It will be on the 'right side' of the groins, which shows a west-to-east direction of sand movement due to the currents.

The 'expert' is wrong that there is both eastbound and westbound movement of sand along the south shore. The only place in that area that has multi-directional sand movement is within the NY Bight area, where both East and Hudson Rivers (southward direction) flow into the harbor, where the northward currents along the Jersey shore and the WESTWARD direction of the currents along the south shore all blend into one mess of currents.

It's called Littoral Drift. Perhaps the Expert missed that course.
CoastalSedimento logy

Sea Cliff, NY

#2 Apr 1, 2008
I earned a Masters Degree on this. Littoral sand drift along the Barrier Island of Long Island is East to West. Period. This is not in dispute.

Geologists know that the beach there accretes in the summertime, and recedes in the wintertime. The hurricanes worsen the situation with overwashes, etc. The current proximity of the Montauk Lighthouse to the ocean, compared to where it was originally first sited by none other than G. Washington, is a dramatic example of coastal erosion on LI. The sediments eroded off those bluffs moves westward at and near shore. Further offshore, there is a shallower ocean current to the northest, but it does not move beach sand.

lol

United States

#3 Apr 1, 2008
As someone with some knowledge then, what is your opinion of building homes on the barrier beach, such as Westhampton Dunes?
Litter Box

Farmingdale, NY

#4 Apr 1, 2008
When we continue to allow homes to be built on the shoreline such as Dune Road we are literally shoveling sh**t against the tide.  The rich sue until Suffolk County and the Federal Government fills in the gaps.  So yearafter we start all over again renewing the beach and filling in the gaps so the rich can have their waterfront homes.

Why?
Marine geologist

Albany, NY

#5 Apr 1, 2008
brenda wrote:
All one needs to do is do a search on any map program like google earth or yahoo, check the satellite imagery, and focus on the south shore of Long Island.
Then take an even cursory look at which side of the groins have the most beach buildup. It will be on the 'right side' of the groins, which shows a west-to-east direction of sand movement due to the currents.
The 'expert' is wrong that there is both eastbound and westbound movement of sand along the south shore. The only place in that area that has multi-directional sand movement is within the NY Bight area, where both East and Hudson Rivers (southward direction) flow into the harbor, where the northward currents along the Jersey shore and the WESTWARD direction of the currents along the south shore all blend into one mess of currents.
It's called Littoral Drift. Perhaps the Expert missed that course.
You're correct Brenda. If you go to Google Earth and look at the three groins just seaward of Georgica Pond, the effect of the westward movement of sand (littoral drift) is clear. However, we don't now exactly where the house in question is in relation to the groin field. Aubrey is from WHOI, so he's got the credentials. This will be an interesting case.
mister hard driver

Huntington, NY

#6 Apr 1, 2008
brenda wrote:
All one needs to do is do a search on any map program like google earth or yahoo, check the satellite imagery, and focus on the south shore of Long Island.
Then take an even cursory look at which side of the groins have the most beach buildup. It will be on the 'right side' of the groins, which shows a west-to-east direction of sand movement due to the currents.
The 'expert' is wrong that there is both eastbound and westbound movement of sand along the south shore. The only place in that area that has multi-directional sand movement is within the NY Bight area, where both East and Hudson Rivers (southward direction) flow into the harbor, where the northward currents along the Jersey shore and the WESTWARD direction of the currents along the south shore all blend into one mess of currents.
It's called Littoral Drift. Perhaps the Expert missed that course.
[[It will be on the 'right side' of the groins, which shows a west-to-east direction of sand movement due to the currents.]]

you meant east-to-west movement, didn't you?
Teddy R

Burke, VA

#7 Apr 1, 2008
The next Cat 3 or higher storm will decide the case conclusively.

An idiot with more money than sense paying idiotic sums to some shylock to argue over land that probably won't be there 10 years from now.

They all deserve each other. My money's on the ocean.
Teddy R

Burke, VA

#8 Apr 1, 2008
So the work
s h y l o c k
gets bleeped by the Snoozday nanny now?

How revealing...
Teddy R

Burke, VA

#9 Apr 1, 2008
*word
Teddy R

Burke, VA

#10 Apr 1, 2008
The next Cat 3 or higher storm will decide the case conclusively.

An idiot with more money than sense paying idiotic sums to some s h y l o c k to argue over land that probably won't be there 10 years from now.

They all deserve each other. My money's on the ocean.
Duh

New York, NY

#11 Apr 1, 2008
Just remove the groins and the liability issue is gone. You want sand in front of your beach house, YOU pay for it to be pumped/trucked in. Your house gets washed away - end of discussion, its taken as undevelopable park land and you get compensated at the lower land cost.
Teddy R

Burke, VA

#12 Apr 1, 2008
Duh wrote:
Just remove the groins and the liability issue is gone. You want sand in front of your beach house, YOU pay for it to be pumped/trucked in. Your house gets washed away - end of discussion, its taken as undevelopable park land and you get compensated at the lower land cost.
I vote Duh to take over Shelly Silver and Joe Bruno's job. Immediately, if not sooner.

Right on, bro.
sHORT bUS bOB

Bronx, NY

#15 Apr 2, 2008
I lived on Kismet Beach Fire Island for over 20 years. After the Storms of the early 1990's when Houses were dropping into the Ocean for weeks and weeks during their aftermath, the "Newbies" there panicked and started calling for Beach Scraping and Dredging projects to bring the Beach back to it's "original" condition. The Old Timers tried to tell them that it was a waste of time and money and to be patient. The Beaches would replenish on their own in due time.

Well the Newbies know better because they have all of this New Money which makes them smarter than the People who have watched the Beach come and go all of their lives right? Granted, Kismet is far from the Groins of the Hamptons but true to the Old Timers words the Beaches have naturally replenished. You can fight Mother Nature all you want but in the end you will lose. That's why the Residents who built on Fire Island 50 and 60 years ago built far back from the Oceanfront. But don't try to tell that to the Rich people who build Homes 200 feet from the crashing Waves of an Ocean. Their money makes them smarter than us experienced Old Timers.

They will take your Tax money to help rebuild the Beach. But don't expect them to repay the favor by letting you come there to enjoy it. That's "their Beach".
Castlesinthesand

Sea Cliff, NY

#16 Apr 2, 2008
Beaches move. They have to. Barrier Islands move, they have to.

Jim Hendrix: "Castles made of sand, slip into the sea, eventually....and the wind cries Mary"

The Corps of Engineers stupidly built the groin field, let them remove it. but not on my nickel.
JOHN W BUGLER

Milford, CT

#17 Aug 15, 2008
Please go to EROSION.COM

You will be glad you did.

With every good wish.

John W. Bugler
Bugler.Org
wounded eagle

Milford, CT

#18 Oct 8, 2009
john w. bugler listen to him. he is right when he tell us to go to
site ---erosion.com

also listen to wisdom of one who goes by the name of bus bob.

wounded eagle has spoken.

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