Coal-fired power proposal attacked

Coal-fired power proposal attacked

There are 30 comments on the Buffalo News story from Mar 23, 2012, titled Coal-fired power proposal attacked. In it, Buffalo News reports that:

A coalition of environmental, energy and health groups Wednesday came out against a provision in the State Senate's budget bill that would call on the New York Power Authority to buy the electricity generated by Western New York's struggling coal-fired power plants.

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Since: Mar 08

Buffalo, NY

#1 Mar 23, 2012
I deem it appropriate to engage a coal-ition to address issues regarding coal.
OTB

Dunkirk, NY

#2 Mar 23, 2012
Your Name Here wrote:
I deem it appropriate to engage a coal-ition to address issues regarding coal.
Do any of these people live here in Dunkirk or the County?
what

Dunkirk, NY

#3 Mar 24, 2012
These people who fight for the environmental cause never ever take into consideration the financial impact on society during their quest, its all about nature at any cost. America is struggling, we cant afford the premium that must be paid for unreliable alternative energy. The US has a stockpile of coal, plants like NRG Dunkirk and AES Somerset have invested big in clean coal technology,I cant understand why as a society would we not want a diversified energy source? If we focus all of our efforts in one direction, it'll bite us. Unfortunately greenies are short sighted and can only think one way, and they're relentless in their cause.
Country Boy

Batavia, NY

#4 Mar 24, 2012
The tree huggers will protest anything that comes into their ectasy twisted skull before they hop into their SUVs and motor to their air conditioned homes.
Solarman

Yucca Valley, CA

#5 Mar 24, 2012
what wrote:
These people who fight for the environmental cause never ever take into consideration the financial impact on society during their quest, its all about nature at any cost. America is struggling, we cant afford the premium that must be paid for unreliable alternative energy. The US has a stockpile of coal, plants like NRG Dunkirk and AES Somerset have invested big in clean coal technology,I cant understand why as a society would we not want a diversified energy source? If we focus all of our efforts in one direction, it'll bite us. Unfortunately greenies are short sighted and can only think one way, and they're relentless in their cause.
Almost 51% fo this country's electricity is being generated by coal fired power plants. We do not have a very diversified power grid right now. The power grid is at least 50 years old and needs severe upgrading NOW! One of the things that is needed is power storage along the grid, either by huge battery banks in the MWh capacity, flow batteries, pumped hydro storage or even using a source of water like treated waste water to hydrolyze into H2 to store for later use in either a fuel cell or burn in a turbine to generate power. If you have grid storage infrastructure in place, you can do without a lot of coal fired plants or even natural gas fired (peaker) plants online as spinning capacity or baseload capacity. With power storage, you can then use intermittant generation sources like wind and solar PV. As for "clean coal" that is a prime example of an oxymoron. Remember a couple of years ago when the sludge ponds at a TVA coal plant spilled and ruined the land around the ponds for miles? I'm thinking, no one wants to even examine what the spill will do to the local ground water. This risk is just part of doing business with coal fired power plants, clean technology or not. You think this so called "green" energy is at a premium cost? The state in which the national grid is in right now, it will soon be cheaper to pay it forward and install your own solar PV, wind or micro-hydro system at your home than the next 20 years of electricity price increases. Here try this: www.dsireusa.org and see what programs are available to help protect you from future price increases.
what

Dunkirk, NY

#6 Mar 24, 2012
Solarman you live in a fantasy world!! We cant keep highways, bridges or water supplys adequate let alone do the things you dream of.
what

Dunkirk, NY

#7 Mar 24, 2012
I also find it funny you mention the ash and groundwater. So overhyped to support the cause people like you push. In the snowbelt we use it on our roads in the winter and you might be surprised to know that when mixed in with your garden soil it grows amazing tomatoes.
BTU

United States

#8 Mar 24, 2012
what wrote:
I also find it funny you mention the ash and groundwater. So overhyped to support the cause people like you push. In the snowbelt we use it on our roads in the winter and you might be surprised to know that when mixed in with your garden soil it grows amazing tomatoes.
A lot depends on the actual content of certain materials like mercury. That varies. Some people have found their gardens dangerously contaminated when they over-did it. Much like radioactive material, not much of a problem if properly contained. It can't be disregarded or carelessly disposed of, though.
koch bro

Buffalo, NY

#9 Mar 24, 2012
Nat gas prices have made the coal generation plants unprofitable. simple economics its also reduced the number of new wells.
Solarman

Yucca Valley, CA

#10 Mar 24, 2012
what wrote:
I also find it funny you mention the ash and groundwater. So overhyped to support the cause people like you push. In the snowbelt we use it on our roads in the winter and you might be surprised to know that when mixed in with your garden soil it grows amazing tomatoes.
The Fantasy world is all YOURS, What? You can find some amazing tomatoes growing in sewage ponds, I wouldn't eat those either. But people like YOU might enjoy them, go right ahead. What? I mentioned the breach of a coal plant's slurry dike that flooded the surrounding area. Can YOU answer if the ash used as a soil amendment is treated or not? What? There's nothing funny about your wrote institutionalized 'answer'. You are part of the problem not part of the solution. What?

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#11 Mar 25, 2012
Last I heard something like 2/3s of power produced in the usa is wasted because we don't have batteries to store excess energy produced.

Then we also have old technology delivery systems which compound the problem.
what

Dunkirk, NY

#12 Mar 25, 2012
Solarman, this is my last post simply because my grandpa once told me, "never argue with an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience". But just as an FYI, Ive spent decades working in the electric industry in both transmission and generation, I know what works, what doesnt and what can be done today. You need to stop reading popular science and face the reality of what you claim necessary to "fix" the problem. Tell me whats the environmental impact of those giganic battery banks? Batteries and capacitors can smooth out small dips and rises in the system voltage but there needs to be amperage capacity in the thousands of amps and the ability to maintain it for long periods. How do you propose these battery, capacitor, pumped water storage and small H2 driven turbine upgrades handle leading and lagging VAR support when system load is dragging down transmission voltage and those demands last for days or weeks...not hours? Thats why we need spinning reserve!!

See heres the problem with people like you, you're feeding society promising information of alternatives, painting a vision of grandeur in order to support your cause and never once mention the price our society will pay in dollars. Why? because dollars dont matter to you, its the environment at ANY cost. The reality is what you greenies lobby for isnt feasable near term both reaistically or financially, but its great material to use in order to sway public opinion and clean the air at any cost. The the uneducated public buys it hook line and sinker.
Dunkirk Native

Dunkirk, NY

#13 Mar 25, 2012
I suppose when you live in a town where the median yearly household income is under $30K you would rather fight for the good paying employer and majority tax payer instead of a windmill and 10 acres of batteries. The people who want to argue the environmental cause need to better pick their audience.
joe white

Fredonia, NY

#14 Mar 25, 2012
what wrote:
Solarman, this is my last post simply because my grandpa once told me, "never argue with an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience". But just as an FYI, Ive spent decades working in the electric industry in both transmission and generation, I know what works, what doesnt and what can be done today. You need to stop reading popular science and face the reality of what you claim necessary to "fix" the problem. Tell me whats the environmental impact of those giganic battery banks? Batteries and capacitors can smooth out small dips and rises in the system voltage but there needs to be amperage capacity in the thousands of amps and the ability to maintain it for long periods. How do you propose these battery, capacitor, pumped water storage and small H2 driven turbine upgrades handle leading and lagging VAR support when system load is dragging down transmission voltage and those demands last for days or weeks...not hours? Thats why we need spinning reserve!!
See heres the problem with people like you, you're feeding society promising information of alternatives, painting a vision of grandeur in order to support your cause and never once mention the price our society will pay in dollars. Why? because dollars dont matter to you, its the environment at ANY cost. The reality is what you greenies lobby for isnt feasable near term both reaistically or financially, but its great material to use in order to sway public opinion and clean the air at any cost. The the uneducated public buys it hook line and sinker.
please don't go away,it's really great to hear from someone with an independent brain and intelligence!
Vet

Fredonia, NY

#15 Mar 25, 2012
Solarman seems to be stuck on "slurry ponds". FYI not all coal fired plants use them on that big of a scale. Dunkirk does not use this method.
Solarman

Yucca Valley, CA

#16 Mar 25, 2012
what wrote:
Solarman, this is my last post simply because my grandpa once told me, "never argue with an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience". But just as an FYI, Ive spent decades working in the electric industry in both transmission and generation, I know what works, what doesnt and what can be done today. You need to stop reading popular science and face the reality of what you claim necessary to "fix" the problem. Tell me whats the environmental impact of those giganic battery banks? Batteries and capacitors can smooth out small dips and rises in the system voltage but there needs to be amperage capacity in the thousands of amps and the ability to maintain it for long periods. How do you propose these battery, capacitor, pumped water storage and small H2 driven turbine upgrades handle leading and lagging VAR support when system load is dragging down transmission voltage and those demands last for days or weeks...not hours? Thats why we need spinning reserve!!
See heres the problem with people like you, you're feeding society promising information of alternatives, painting a vision of grandeur in order to support your cause and never once mention the price our society will pay in dollars. Why? because dollars dont matter to you, its the environment at ANY cost. The reality is what you greenies lobby for isnt feasable near term both reaistically or financially, but its great material to use in order to sway public opinion and clean the air at any cost. The the uneducated public buys it hook line and sinker.
Your Grandpa sounds very wise. Did he also tell you , "you can't pick family"? People like YOU would be the culls of the family unit. For someone who CLAIMS to be in the energy industry, you know very little (VAR)? Are you an Electrical Engineer? Then you don't have the chops to tell anyone what works or what doesn't. You paint a picture of dire abandon if anyone comes up with something out of YOUR purview. Fairbanks Alaska uses a very large battery storage facility to help keep the grid up when ice storms take down the transmission lines. There is also a cost for staying with the old coal technology, there is a cost for going with more nuclear. That's all good, you can cling to your old technology as it sinks like the Titanic and with the toxic waste left over, you can drown in your own S$%#. Your Grandpa would be proud, Right?
Solarman

Yucca Valley, CA

#17 Mar 25, 2012
Vet wrote:
Solarman seems to be stuck on "slurry ponds". FYI not all coal fired plants use them on that big of a scale. Dunkirk does not use this method.
How big of a scale do YOU need to be concerned? Perhaps that is the problem. Coal fired plants create waste, so what does YOUR plant do with it?
Solarman

Yucca Valley, CA

#18 Mar 25, 2012
Dunkirk Native wrote:
I suppose when you live in a town where the median yearly household income is under $30K you would rather fight for the good paying employer and majority tax payer instead of a windmill and 10 acres of batteries. The people who want to argue the environmental cause need to better pick their audience.
Dude, two different issues. The "10 acres of batteries" will take excess energy from the transmission grid regardless of the generation source. Well, windmills you will always have maintenance issues, with old technology you have gear trains, with newer technology you have straight drive of the generator. These units require placement in areas usually remote which are always difficult to secure. With copper going for about $3.85 a pound, "copper cowboys" will always be on the lookout for a large sized windmill to wrangle. There are some local windmills around here, copper cowboys got around $5K worth of copper over a long weekend, it cost the windturbine operators $50K to replace the wiring and repair the turbines vandalized. 10 to 1 doesn't sound like a good deal to me either. As for folks that average 30K a year, try www.dsireusa.org and see what programs are available to you in your state of the union. What? says, it's people like ME that are screwing things up. I say it is people like you that all of this tax money and fees on every electric bill is designed to help them put energy efficiency devices and upgrades in their homes to help them keep some more of that 30K a year. It's YOUR tax money, use it or lose it.
joe white

Fredonia, NY

#19 Mar 25, 2012
well if coal is so bad why did i get a lump in my stocking a couple of christmas's? explain that solarman?
Solarman

Yucca Valley, CA

#20 Mar 25, 2012
joe white wrote:
well if coal is so bad why did i get a lump in my stocking a couple of christmas's? explain that solarman?
Could it be because You're such a STAND UP guy? What?

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