Estes Park trustees reverse course, approve EPIC request

Full story: Estes Park Trail-Gazette

The Estes Park board of trustees reversed their Jan. 22 vote on the Estes Park Performance Inc.

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Ol Geezer

Denver, CO

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#1
Feb 27, 2013
 

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It figures. It's obvious our town trustees are wusses. Since Ron Norris and Wendy Koening reversed course, can we file a recall petition against them? Just where does EPIC propose replacing 30 parking spaces in a town that's crying for spaces?
Oh man

Estes Park, CO

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#2
Feb 27, 2013
 

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Ol Geezer. I was so excited to come on here and see how upset you were at this proposal and the new vote. There are options for fixing the parking. The hub at the fairgrounds wasn't one of them though. Yeah performing arts! Lets finally get some concerts and classy acts up here in the winter and summer months. No more geezer parades and supid craft shows!
Yeah

Littleton, CO

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#3
Feb 27, 2013
 
It will be such fun to watch them fall on their faces when they can't raise the money to build the monstrosity. They couldn't raise the money for the center when the town gave them the land at the fairgrounds. Then who is going to pay the utilities in the winter when it sits empty? No one is going to drive up here from the front range. They need to get their heads out of the clouds. Mark my words-----they will petition the town to give them a break on the utilities since they provide such a "great service" to the community. I don't care what venue they bring--I will never step foot in it!
Good

Estes Park, CO

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#4
Feb 27, 2013
 

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That's just one less parking space that needs to be replaced!
ol geezer

Denver, CO

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#5
Feb 27, 2013
 

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Oh man wrote:
Ol Geezer. I was so excited to come on here and see how upset you were at this proposal and the new vote. There are options for fixing the parking. The hub at the fairgrounds wasn't one of them though. Yeah performing arts! Lets finally get some concerts and classy acts up here in the winter and summer months. No more geezer parades and supid craft shows!
I am extatic that you are excited. Keep an eye on your blood pressure. Just be sure that when The Rocky goes under that you come forward and spend YOUR tax money to sustain it. Believe it or not I am not against The Rocky. However a little common sense in picking a location for it should come into consideration. Since you seem to be an expert on parking, where do you propose the people who dine at Orlando's and patronize other businesses in the immediate vicinity park? Also, I wouldn't hesitate to call you out on your assinine comment on parades. The Scottish Fest Parade, The Rooftop Rodeo Parade, The Christmas Parade. Just what do you call these? You are grossly misinformed. And when was the last time you attended The Performing Arts in say Denver? All the Rocky is going to do in its present proposed location is create even more congestion. But you know what? I am not worried, because they won't be able to raise $20 million to build it, yet alone pay all the bills involved in it's upkeep, plus employees, stage hands, ete., etc.
Well

Estes Park, CO

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#6
Feb 27, 2013
 
Let me see. Not only am I willing to fork over my tax dollars but I'm also willing to fork over yours too! Isn't it funny how that works. God bless this beautiful country. Sucks paying for things you dont use or like doesnt it. Like say the hospital or senior center or the school or the rec district. Just saying that you cant use taxes as a argument, everyone pays for things they dont want or dont "use" but some things can be for the good of most and so everyone must pay. I just get a kick out of it because you are so caught up in the poor taxpayers that will get stuck with the bill. Look there are any number of spots in town where parking can be expanded. The town owns numerous parking lots, make a few of them into garages. Preferebly the ones in town, people dont want to park a 2 miles away from where they are shopping cause they dont want to haul all their lame t-shirts and worthless trinkets around that they bought from the other stupid and pointless stores in town.

The crap fest parades are just that. Crap fest events designed to get people in town to spend their money at the wonderful little shops that we have.

I attend performing arts all the time but I dont have to go to Denver. They have them in pretty much every other city and even small mountain towns have them. They all seem to do ok, but no not Estes. We cant have one cause no one will want to come up for a concert or musical or play... BS. People love traveling to shows and having a cool venue in a cool town would bring more people than you think. Time will tell.

Just wait and see I guess. Maybe you will be right about the funding but I bet they can tweak it down to make it work. The main issue was getting through the town and now that that has been accomplished there is little the ol geezers out there can do to stop it. Game over man!
Maureen vetter

Grand Island, NE

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#7
Feb 27, 2013
 

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so glad to hear that the town trustees changed their views on the EPIC project for downtown Estes Park! This is great news for the Performing Arts Center going forward now!
I watched the live stream of the city council meeting and I am guessing many others from across the country did the same! Glad to hear the Rocky is a go!
Egg

Littleton, CO

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#8
Feb 27, 2013
 

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on their faces is what the EPIC people will have when they can't raise the money...that will be fun to watch...good luck with the fundraising! Maybe they can sit in their 30 parking places and play their instruments for coins thrown in their hats. And Norris and Koenig can wear their "don't be mad at me" signs while acting like responsible trustees. Good job Phipps and Blackhurst!!!
You mad

Estes Park, CO

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#9
Feb 27, 2013
 
bro?
Ol Geezer

Denver, CO

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#10
Feb 27, 2013
 
Well wrote:
Let me see. Not only am I willing to fork over my tax dollars but I'm also willing to fork over yours too! Isn't it funny how that works. God bless this beautiful country. Sucks paying for things you dont use or like doesnt it. Like say the hospital or senior center or the school or the rec district. Just saying that you cant use taxes as a argument, everyone pays for things they dont want or dont "use" but some things can be for the good of most and so everyone must pay. I just get a kick out of it because you are so caught up in the poor taxpayers that will get stuck with the bill. Look there are any number of spots in town where parking can be expanded. The town owns numerous parking lots, make a few of them into garages. Preferebly the ones in town, people dont want to park a 2 miles away from where they are shopping cause they dont want to haul all their lame t-shirts and worthless trinkets around that they bought from the other stupid and pointless stores in town.
The crap fest parades are just that. Crap fest events designed to get people in town to spend their money at the wonderful little shops that we have.

I attend performing arts all the time but I dont have to go to Denver. They have them in pretty much every other city and even small mountain towns have them. They all seem to do ok, but no not Estes. We cant have one cause no one will want to come up for a concert or musical or play... BS. People love traveling to shows and having a cool venue in a cool town would bring more people than you think. Time will tell.
Just wait and see I guess. Maybe you will be right about the funding but I bet they can tweak it down to make it work. The main issue was getting through the town and now that that has been accomplished there is little the ol geezers out there can do to stop it. Game over man!
WRONG! Apparently you are ignorant to the fact that The Rocky is contingent on Raising $20 Million by a given date, and this is I believe the second or maybe third time around. They couldn't do it when they had the fair grounds, so what makes them or you for that matter think they can do it now? Yes, we will wait and see won't we. And as for your self described Crap Fest Parades, they do exactly what you advocate the Rocky will do. Maybe we can do away with them and pray like hell The Rocky will make it. I would like to see The Rocky but in a different location, such as the fairgrounds co-existing with the MPEC. We all need to get together and pursue what's best for Estes Park, whatever that may be.
Touche

Estes Park, CO

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#11
Feb 27, 2013
 
You make some very valid points. I guess it just depends on what foot the shoe is one. Comments withdrawn ol geezer. Comments withdrawn.
Ted

Denver, CO

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#12
Feb 27, 2013
 

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I own a biz right next to this out of place eyesore will be and if EPIC thinks I am going out of my way to help with parking there can go ...off. I watched online and the 2 flip floppers comments were idiotic. I am sure something under the table was going on. Wendy seems more concern about bumber stickers than and trying to make a joke out of this. This town is going down the toilet. I hope they open Rustic Mtn Charm part 2 in there and then we will se how happy people are. All downtown bizs get hammered. Property taxes going up and patrons going down. Thankfully we are moving out of town, and county. We are not holier than thou like some think they are in this town.
Yes

Denver, CO

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#13
Feb 27, 2013
 
Good point above, there are only 3 types of stores in town, T-shirts, Rustic home decor and Ice Cream/Taffy. All these new stores will be nipping into their bottom line. Plus don't people remember half the spots in the park theater mall were EMPTY!! Indoor malls don't go well in Colorado. How is Foothills Mall in Ft Collins and Twin Peaks mall in Longmont doing!?
Ol Geezer

Denver, CO

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#14
Feb 27, 2013
 
Touche wrote:
You make some very valid points. I guess it just depends on what foot the shoe is one. Comments withdrawn ol geezer. Comments withdrawn.
Thanks Touche. It's always good to see two sides and different views of a touchy subject. I think we both accomplished that. Have a great day!
SunshineX2

Estes Park, CO

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#15
Feb 28, 2013
 
There's an old saying,"Something smells dead in the woods." Hint, it's going to be the 800 pound BLIVIT right downtown, no woods needed. Eight hundred pounds of 'BS' shoved into a five pound space is no better than 'lipstick on a pig'.

IMO: If the approving trustees only saw a parking problem with this location......it's time for some 'sanity checks'.

Alas, I can see it now, eventually the resurrection of the "Beretania Follies".
SunshineX2

Estes Park, CO

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#16
Feb 28, 2013
 

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An afterthought. Not seen here is the issue of practical safety. I presume such a project will be built to all the latest building codes; process and materials. However, unless they clear a 100 foot space/zone around it. This performance theatre will sit smack dab, crammed in amongst much higher risk fire buildings, built by older codes, materials.

I'd imagine to make this building truly safe for use and exiting for emergencies. The immediate area/buildings will incur unintended consequences(then again they may be intended)......I think it reasonable speculation that even old asbestos use would become an issue....How long before the Fire Marshall see's need to take issue with the immediate surrounding buildings/area?
EPVirtualNative

Estes Park, CO

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#17
Feb 28, 2013
 
Before either side counts any of their yet to be hatched chickens, take a look at what actually happened in passing the ordinance on Tuesday.

In defense of the EPIC people, they needed to have some assurances in place before proceeding with any fundraising or hiring of consultants. So securing an option that they have less than 4 years to exercise would appear to be prudent.

The Town Trustees really are not giving anything away. They are granting an OPTION on the property. Read the text of the ordinance. It does include a section about replacement of the parking spaces somewhere in the central business district. There will also be a series of reviews by planners, planning commission and the Board of Trustees. A building of this size will not be rubber stamped through as if it were a detached garage on your property. SunshineX2 makes some valid points about the safety issues that are bound to come up.

One could assume that soil and core samples will be extracted. They may find some of the legends of what lies beneath the mall property to be true. Old vehicles used as fill material is one such story. How this will play out remains to be seen.

Has EPIC stated how much money they have raised? We hear a lot about support(mostly from those with businesses located outside of downtown or from ones who live out of town). How much that verbal support translates into money remains to be seen. And how much will the operating budget be? Do the town officials have the backbone to tell EPIC that the public is NOT going to be on the hook for this risky venture?

The rule of unintended consequences may play a big part in all of this. Town officials appear to be actually talking about the parking issue. Building a parking structure may not be as horrible an idea as some think. There are several spots that lend themselves very well to parking structures. We can not build out without having to purchase someones property and converting it to parking. Building up is a solution. Boulder did it in their downtown area. And now people actually look forward to a trip to Pearl Street. No we aren't Boulder. But they had the right idea when they came up with a solution to their parking problem.

In the meantime, the Town appears ready to move forward with the MPEC at the Fairgrounds. Could a smaller theater building be erected at the same time? We don't hear The Fine Arts Guild and the other local theatre/performance companies being mentioned as vital parts of this EPIC project. If the Guild or a local music ensemble wants to use this facility, can they afford it? EPIC says that some sort of "trust fund" will be maintained to help them and others out. Suppose a a local performance has a calendar conflict with an out of town production? Or what if the cost of them using the building is just too much? Then we are back to square one: no local dedicated venue for the local talent to call home.

Time will tell if EPIC can make this go.
EPVirtualNative

Longmont, CO

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#18
Mar 1, 2013
 
Sorry if this sounds like a repeat. Most of this was posted after the original article. Before either side counts any of their yet to be hatched chickens, take a look at what actually happened in passing the ordinance on Tuesday.

In defense of the EPIC people, they needed to have some assurances in place before proceeding with any fundraising or hiring of consultants. So securing an option that they have less than 4 years to exercise would appear to be prudent.

The Town Trustees really are not giving anything away. They are granting an OPTION on the property. Read the text of the ordinance. It does include a section about replacement of the parking spaces somewhere in the central business district. There will also be a series of reviews by planners, planning commission and the Board of Trustees. A building of this size will not be rubber stamped through as if it were a detached garage on your property. Many hoops need to be jumped through. And any board or commission could say "NO" at any time.

One could assume that soil and core samples will be extracted. They may find some of the legends of what lies beneath the mall property to be true. Old vehicles used as fill material is one such story. How this will play out remains to be seen.

Has EPIC stated how much money they have raised? We hear a lot about support(mostly from those with businesses located outside of downtown or from ones who live out of town). How much that verbal support translates into money remains to be seen. And how much will the operating budget be? Do the town officials have the backbone to tell EPIC that the public is NOT going to be on the hook for this risky venture? The spokesperson claims that no taxpayer money will be needed to make this work. Will they live up to that?

The rule of unintended consequences may play a big part in all of this. Town officials appear to be actually talking about the parking issue. Building a parking structure may not be as horrible an idea as some think. There are several spots that lend themselves very well to parking structures. We can not build out without having to purchase someones property and converting it to parking. Building up is a solution. Boulder did it in their downtown area. And now people actually look forward to a trip to Pearl Street. No we aren't Boulder. But they had the right idea when they came up with a solution to their parking problem.

In the meantime, the Town appears ready to move forward with the MPEC at the Fairgrounds. Could a smaller theater building be erected at the same time? We don't hear The Fine Arts Guild and the other local theatre/performance companies being mentioned as vital parts of this EPIC project. If the Guild or a local music ensemble wants to use this facility, can they afford it? EPIC says that some sort of "trust fund" will be maintained to help them and others out. Suppose a a local performance has a calendar conflict with an out of town production? Or what if the cost of them using the building is just too much? Then we are back to square one: no local dedicated venue for the local talent to call home.

A theater would be nice. Every location proposed had "problems". How well will this proposal sail through the Planning Commission and other reviews? Time will tell if EPIC can make this go.
EPVirtualNative

Estes Park, CO

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#19
Mar 1, 2013
 

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Apologies. The comment above was supposed to post on the updated article.

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