Apes and men: Chromosome 2 in humans and the chimpanzee, pt 1 of 3

There are 20 comments on the Examiner.com story from Nov 14, 2009, titled Apes and men: Chromosome 2 in humans and the chimpanzee, pt 1 of 3. In it, Examiner.com reports that:

Figure 1 : Evolutionary Map of Proposed Ape and Human Descent. Note the chimpanzee and the bonobo or pigmy chimpanzee are grouped together The following article was written by A.P. staff scientist Will Brooks, who holds a Ph.D. in Cell Biology from the University of Alabama at Birmingham "The Evolution of Creationism." No, you did not misread the ...

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“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

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#1 Nov 14, 2009
Oh my God, that's catastrophe! How dare an educated human of PhD degree claimed that the chimp is a cousin of a human. I hope he does not believe in God.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#2 Nov 15, 2009
Divine Alien wrote:
How dare an educated human of PhD degree claimed that the chimp is a cousin of a human.
What choice does he have unless he is willing to ignore the mountain of evidence that supports the idea that humans and chimps are closely related?
Divine Alien wrote:
I hope he does not believe in God.
Why? Most U.S. theists accept that humans and chimps are related.

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#3 Nov 15, 2009
Drew Smith wrote:
What choice does he have unless he is willing to ignore the mountain of evidence that supports the idea that humans and chimps are closely related?
I respect their choice but I like to continue on debating/arguing with them.
Drew Smith wrote:
Why? Most U.S. theists accept that humans and chimps are related.
Let them claim a chimp their cousin but don't include me.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#4 Nov 15, 2009
Divine Alien wrote:
Let them claim a chimp their cousin but don't include me.
Unless you claim to be other than human, you are automatically included. You have no choice in the matter.

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#5 Nov 15, 2009
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless you claim to be other than human, you are automatically included. You have no choice in the matter.
God is my only choice....my divine choice. How could a chimp dares to claim that humans are their cousins!

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#6 Nov 15, 2009
Divine Alien wrote:
God is my only choice....my divine choice.
The majority of those who accept evolution are theists. Therefore, choosing to be a theist does not mean that one must deny evolution.
Divine Alien wrote:
How could a chimp dares to claim that humans are their cousins!
Chimps don't do much claiming. But if they could, they could certainly claim to be cousins of humans, since the DNA evidence fully supports that. How else do you explain it?

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#7 Nov 15, 2009
Drew Smith wrote:
The majority of those who accept evolution are theists. Therefore, choosing to be a theist does not mean that one must deny evolution.
Not in this case that we claim chimps as our cousins. It's OK if a chimp claims that humans are his cousin. But I don't want to claim the chimps as my cousins.
Drew Smith wrote:
Chimps don't do much claiming. But if they could, they could certainly claim to be cousins of humans, since the DNA evidence fully supports that. How else do you explain it?
I don't agree by similarity of DNA. It's just coincidence. How dare we agree to come from the same line as those chimps!

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#8 Nov 15, 2009
I wrote: "The majority of those who accept evolution are theists. Therefore, choosing to be a theist does not mean that one must deny evolution."
Divine Alien wrote:
Not in this case that we claim chimps as our cousins. It's OK if a chimp claims that humans are his cousin. But I don't want to claim the chimps as my cousins.[/QUOTE}

Why not? Why does that idea bother you so much?

***

I wrote: "But if [chimps] could [claim things], they could certainly claim to be cousins of humans, since the DNA evidence fully supports that. How else do you explain it?"

[QUOTE who="Divine Alien"]I don't agree by similarity of DNA. It's just coincidence.
So if two men were to have almost exactly the same DNA, it wouldn't tell you that they were very closely related? It would be merely a coincidence?

***
Divine Alien wrote:
How dare we agree to come from the same line as those chimps!
Again, why does that idea seem to bother you so greatly?

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#9 Nov 15, 2009
Drew Smith wrote:
I wrote: "The majority of those who accept evolution are theists. Therefore, choosing to be a theist does not mean that one must deny evolution."
<quoted text>
So if two men were to have almost exactly the same DNA, it wouldn't tell you that they were very closely related? It would be merely a coincidence?
***
<quoted text>
Again, why does that idea seem to bother you so greatly?
You know, all humans are descendants of Adam except those who claim chimps their cousins. It's not coincidence we have the same DNA coz God was the creator of Adam. Of course God created the chimps first, and he might have copied some features of a chimp to be fit in us. Nevertheless, the chimps are not our cousins.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#10 Nov 16, 2009
Divine Alien wrote:
You know, all humans are descendants of Adam...
Nope, I don't know that, because that's just a story with no evidence to support it.
Divine Alien wrote:
...except those who claim chimps their cousins.
So you're saying that your genealogy is determined merely by belief?
Divine Alien wrote:
It's not coincidence we have the same DNA coz God was the creator of Adam.
We don't have the same DNA. The DNA of each human differs a little bit from the DNA of every other human (except for identical twins). Weren't you aware of that?
Divine Alien wrote:
Nevertheless, the chimps are not our cousins.
The DNA and fossil evidence says otherwise. Why do you ignore the evidence?

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#11 Nov 16, 2009
DA, you *still* are avoiding my question: Why does the idea of humans being related to chimpanzees bother you so much? Obviously, it does. But why?

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#13 Nov 16, 2009
Drew Smith wrote:
Nope, I don't know that, because that's just a story with no evidence to support it.
Hmmm...you are ignorant
Drew Smith wrote:
So you're saying that your genealogy is determined merely by belief?
I don't think Adam is just a belief. He is real.
Drew Smith wrote:
We don't have the same DNA. The DNA of each human differs a little bit from the DNA of every other human (except for identical twins). Weren't you aware of that?
If exactly the same, we will have same face/clone.
Drew Smith wrote:
The DNA and fossil evidence says otherwise. Why do you ignore the evidence?
How could a fossil of a chimp claimed to be an ancestor of a human?

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#14 Nov 16, 2009
Drew Smith wrote:
DA, you *still* are avoiding my question: Why does the idea of humans being related to chimpanzees bother you so much? Obviously, it does. But why?
I thought I have answered you satisfactorily.

I don't believe that a chimp could give birth to a human baby.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#15 Nov 16, 2009
Divine Alien wrote:
Hmmm...you are ignorant
I'm ignorant because I recognize that you have no evidence to support your story?
Divine Alien wrote:
I don't think Adam is just a belief. He is real.
You're avoiding the point. The point was that you were claiming that those who disagreed with your belief in Adam somehow had a different genealogy than those who agreed with you. Why would a *belief* have an effect on one's actual genealogy?
Divine Alien wrote:
If exactly the same, we will have same face/clone.
You said that all humans had the same DNA, didn't you?
Divine Alien wrote:
How could a fossil of a chimp claimed to be an ancestor of a human?
It doesn't. The fossils aren't of chimps. The fossils are of species ancestral to human beings, which are more and more similar to the species that was ancestral to both humans and chimps.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#16 Nov 16, 2009
Divine Alien wrote:
I don't believe that a chimp could give birth to a human baby.
When did anyone here claim that a chimp gave birth to a human baby? Humans and chimps have a *common ancestor*. The *common ancestor* wasn't a human, and it wasn't a chimp.

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#17 Nov 16, 2009
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm ignorant because I recognize that you have no evidence to support your story?
<quoted text>
You're avoiding the point. The point was that you were claiming that those who disagreed with your belief in Adam somehow had a different genealogy than those who agreed with you. Why would a *belief* have an effect on one's actual genealogy?
<quoted text>
You said that all humans had the same DNA, didn't you?
<quoted text>
It doesn't. The fossils aren't of chimps. The fossils are of species ancestral to human beings, which are more and more similar to the species that was ancestral to both humans and chimps.
If they are human fossils, they must not be considered as evolved from a chimp. I know you are also a descendant of a human. If you choose to be a descendant of a chimp, that's your choice. DNA is DNA but certain feature in it differs from human to human.

If the fossils aren't chimp, then, you are right to claim that they are human fossil.

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#18 Nov 16, 2009
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
When did anyone here claim that a chimp gave birth to a human baby? Humans and chimps have a *common ancestor*. The *common ancestor* wasn't a human, and it wasn't a chimp.
Hopefully you don't claim it looks like a chimp.
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#19 Nov 16, 2009
I thought you were going to start writing everything in Malay? You may actually sound of at least average intelligence.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#20 Nov 16, 2009
Divine Alien wrote:
If they are human fossils/QUOTE]

They aren't human fossils. They are fossils of the species that were ancestral to humans.

[QUOTE who="Divine Alien"]If you choose to be a descendant of a chimp...
Again, humans aren't descendants of chimps. They are *cousins* to chimps. And it's not a matter of choice. It's a matter of what the evidence points to. You choose to ignore the evidence. Why is that?
Divine Alien wrote:
If the fossils aren't chimp, then, you are right to claim that they are human fossil.
I didn't claim that they were human fossils. I said that they were fossils of the species that was *ancestral* to humans.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#21 Nov 16, 2009
Divine Alien wrote:
<quoted text>Hopefully you don't claim it looks like a chimp.
It looks like a species that would have been ancestral to both humans and chimps.

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