School septic system problem symptom ...

School septic system problem symptom of bigger issue?

There are 54 comments on the WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan story from Mar 21, 2008, titled School septic system problem symptom of bigger issue?. In it, WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan reports that:

There are no children on the playground at Dorr Elementary School this week. Instead, an orange snow fence blocks off the area above the school's tile field, part of the precautions taken after sewage seeped to ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan.

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Charles

Baldwinsville, NY

#1 Mar 21, 2008
Short sighted people.
The investment would be easily realized in increased property value.
The State should step in and force it.
obama

Grand Rapids, MI

#2 Mar 21, 2008
WHEN I BECOME PRESIDENT I WILL CHANGE DORR I WILL NOT HAVE ELEMENTARY KIDS WITH DOOKIE ON THEIR SHOES
Jim

Youngstown, OH

#3 Mar 21, 2008
There are many homes, housing developments and bussinesses along the 142nd Avenue corridore that in time will suffer severely because when they were built, the State didn't require parcel sizes to support two drain fields. The owners of these parcels should really re-evaluate their stance on this program. If they find themselves in the same situation as Dorr Elementary, they may find their homes condemned and their property worthless. Then, they won't have enough time or money to fix the problem. I'm sure that Dorr Elementary can fix their problem. Others living on small lots should do the same.
GRRArea

Golden, CO

#4 Mar 21, 2008
One should really take the cost of the project in the entire are affected, and based on 'usage' have that property owner pay the fair share...as an example:

Home Owner with 4 individuals ($200 each person) would be $800 shared cost...

Home Owner with 7 individuals ($200 each person) would be $1400 shared cost...

Dorr Elementary with 300 students and 50 adults ($200 each person) would be $70,000 shared cost.

City of Dorr: 50% of entir cost...

Now, these $$$ amounts are examples only, but for all property owners to pay the same, and some having as few as 1 person living in that dwelling, is not fair. The burden should be put to the city, state and federal agencies that desire and require such actions, that is what we have paid property taxes for over sooooo many years. Sure, make us pay for the improvement then bill us every month or quarter on top of it and there is where the wheel begins to really roll and there are no brakes...if you all get my drift! Homeowners that have septic systems are better off keeping them if they fail, it can be as little as $3500 to repair, and as high as $12,000 for a total replacement, and that will last another 50-60 years! One cant say that about sewer/drain lines...you would be lucky to get 30 years out of those lines!

Governments answer is and always has been...we'll get it from the home/property owner! As the saying goes,'Just Say No'!
Martin

Ionia, MI

#5 Mar 21, 2008
The school has more than enough room for a new septic system and perhaps this time they will maintain it and even plan for future growth rather than figure on more taxpayer spending to bail them out. The proposed sewer couldn't even be built for 2 years. The cost for running the line under 142nd and up Hickory street is by far more than the cost for a new septic system. It is not the only answer and will only lead to more bills as water will also need to be installed and maintained, all at taxpayer expense. Lack of planning on the part of the school is the real crime here. The residents can not and should not finance poorly planned and executed public policy in Wayland Union Public School District. They have closed the school in Moline and asked for 39 million more dollars in the school district for improvements that will burden the residents until 2028 but what will they do when they need more money before 2028?? Mortgage our childrens future until 2050 and beyond?? They need to think about closing the Dorr elementary building and reopen the one in Moline that already has sewer. This project doesn't end, ever. The numbers don't lie the sewer lines and improvements are not the most effective solution to the problem. As more homes are foreclosed on, raising taxes for upgrades is insane. District leaders need to do what real people do and balance their budget and find solutions you can afford instead of asking for more money we don't have for projects we don't need. Why didn't any news organization cover the petition drive? We were forced to organize when our township board acted on it's own to try to spend 12 million dollars it didn't have to force residents to accept sewer costs including hookup and filling unused drainfields that amounted to about 15-20 percent of the average home cost here. Not all those costs can be financed over time and $5000.00 would be the homeowners first year expense to hookup and close existing drainfields. Consider what you would do when they come to your home and tell you, not ask you, to pay for this. The first plan did not only pay for new sewer but also upgrades that developers would be happy to come in and take full advantage of once we paid for it. I don't think I will see that recovered when I sell my home not to mention the new monthly bill and expense of maintaining the system once they build it. This issue isn't about the children and isn't simple.
Dorr Resident

Stevensville, MI

#6 Mar 22, 2008
I live in the corridor where they were going to be putting in the sewer. They were putting it in only in the old neighborhoods, not the new neighborhoods. If they were to do it, everywhere should have to do it down here. They were picking and choosing. For a lot of people a $12,000 lean on their homes plus another $2500- $5000 to come up with to hook up out of pocket is a lot to ask in this economy. Maybe it was wrong, but to say the state should enforce it is wrong too. Take a look around, everyone is struggling and what you said is wrong.
ShortSitedOne

Montague, MI

#7 Mar 22, 2008
Thank you Charles for your wonderful observation from Holland. You say that the sewer would increase property values and that the people of Dorr are short sited and that the State should step in and force the Township to do this. Well I am from Dorr and I have an even better idea! How about if the State forces you to pay for this whole project out of your pocket, then when the property values rise from this great investment you will be forced to make by the State, you would be reimbursed for your investment when we short sited people sell out homes? Sound good?
Or if that is not acceptable to you, maybe if Saddam Hussein was still alive, he could make you his Secrectary of public works, because he was very well known for forcing his people to do things they opposed! Thats why he is now gone!
Wake up! This is America and we are a republic where the people make decisions that affect them, through a majority vote. We have spoken and expect our elected officials to listen to us.
Byron Center Residen

Broomfield, CO

#8 Mar 22, 2008
We recently purchased a new home in Byron Center and the first question we asked was whether it had city sewer and water.
I would never invest in a home with a septic system or well water.
ShortSitedOne

Montague, MI

#9 Mar 22, 2008
Thats wonderful that you decided to not purchase a home without sewer or city water, that is your choice. But remember, if you ever loose your job because of outsourcing or any other circumstance and can't afford to pay for your home like so many people are right now, with forclosures sky rocketing, please remember not ask the federal government to bail you out! You make your choice to live in luxury and that is your right, but I for one do not want to pay to bail you out because you live beyond your means if jobs move out of this country and you cant make your $3,000 per month or more house payments! This is all part of long term planning, to live within your budget, even if the unforseen happens. But Im happy that you are happy with sewer and city water, which taste like your drinking chemicals, but thats your choice. I like drinking my water from my well, which is tested and is good!
concerned in hamilton

United States

#10 Mar 22, 2008
i would rather take my chances with my well and septic than drink recycled water, that already came from someone elses body as waste and then was "cleaned" and put back in the system!! Yuck, how can anyone think that is sanitary!! It's no wonder everyone is sick all the time. let's drink the same water over and over again, it was bleached so it's safe!!
Burnip Bachelor

Hudsonville, MI

#11 Mar 22, 2008
Well It looks like typical liberal thinking- Force a sewer project when the people of Dorr has spoken by signing the petition to stop it! Then they wonder why no one invests in Michigan when one has to worry if by owning land you will be FORCED into paying for new lines to haul someone elses crap away. see link-
http://www.dorrtownship.net/index1.html

The people of Dorr has SPOKEN!
I have a better idea. Tax the parents of those who use Dorr Elementary and all future people to enroll there kids in school there. If they leave then then would have to own up to what they agreed to pay. Why is it, that those who do not use a particular service are forced to shell out for those who do. If the Moline school is empty and they have sewer there. Would it not make sense to use that school. Or is it not good enough for a Dorr kids to use a Moline School.

Did not the Maintenance people not properly care for the septic system that it failed already.
strong woman

Hudsonville, MI

#12 Mar 22, 2008
Martin wrote:
The residents can not and should not finance poorly planned and executed public policy in Wayland Union Public School District. They have closed the school in Moline and asked for 39 million more dollars in the school district for improvements that will burden the residents until 2028 but what will they do when they need more money before 2028??
The bond issue does not ask for any more taxes than the ones you are already paying for.

The district needs some upgrades...poop on shoes should be a clear indicator of that already.
Martin

Ionia, MI

#13 Mar 22, 2008
strong woman wrote:
<quoted text>
The bond issue does not ask for any more taxes than the ones you are already paying for.
The district needs some upgrades...poop on shoes should be a clear indicator of that already.
You need to check the math, dear. If I extend your house payment for a few years don't ya think the total paid would be more money??? The point being the extension is until 2028 and leaves 20 years in between that will need to be paid for as well so an increase is coming either by total payments or by need when this money is spent before 2028.
strong woman

Hudsonville, MI

#14 Mar 22, 2008
Martin wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to check the math, dear. If I extend your house payment for a few years don't ya think the total paid would be more money??? The point being the extension is until 2028 and leaves 20 years in between that will need to be paid for as well so an increase is coming either by total payments or by need when this money is spent before 2028.
Your taxes will not go up though. Extended for four years, yes, but they will not increase. Check the literature on the bond.
Martin

Ionia, MI

#15 Mar 22, 2008
And I forgot to mention the bond and sewer issues are seperate and will both have to be paid by me. The 39 million doesn't include this problem. It is just an indication of the spending of tomorrow's revenue today that will only make thing's worse because tomorrow will brind it's own bill's that will need to be paid.
Martin

Ionia, MI

#16 Mar 22, 2008
oops edit brind=bring
Martin

Ionia, MI

#17 Mar 22, 2008
I'm sorry but your not making your point very well. If you extend the payments you increase the total paid and neglect that the years in between will also need to be paid for which will have to come from somewhere. The bond isn't going to cover expenses for 20 years.

“Taz say Hi”

Since: Jan 08

Holland,MI

#18 Mar 22, 2008
strong woman wrote:
<quoted text>
Your taxes will not go up though. Extended for four years, yes, but they will not increase. Check the literature on the bond.
It's a pretty good bet that your taxes will go up. A sewer hookup will increase the value of your home which will, in turn, eventually lead to higher property taxes.
strong woman

Hudsonville, MI

#19 Mar 22, 2008
Martin wrote:
I'm sorry but your not making your point very well. If you extend the payments you increase the total paid and neglect that the years in between will also need to be paid for which will have to come from somewhere. The bond isn't going to cover expenses for 20 years.
I just believe it is a start. And things need to be done.

I don't expect to change your mind. I don't think that anyone's mind is ever really changed from a forum...

I would just never turn down money for schools.

People seem to want schools to work miracles, but they don't seem to want to fund them.
ShortSitedOne

Montague, MI

#20 Mar 22, 2008
To: Strong Women
On the front of the literature that the school sent to everyone it says "Funding: NO INCREASE in debt millage" That is correct, but they don't tell you that your payments will increase each year as your taxable value increases, which it will every year. Your taxable value on your home will increase every year, and you can take that to the bank. Call Don Kaczanowski and ask him, if you don't believe this?
Check your tax form you just paid. You will find school debt at 3.5 mils Take your property taxable value and multiply that by the mils, which would be .0035 x (your taxable value, put your figure here(I will use $50,000 for this example).0035 x $50,000 =$175 and that is what you will pay for that year. Now next year when your taxable value on your home goes up 3% or more, depending on inflation and other factors, we will use the 3% increase that the assessor used this year and now your at .0035 x $51,500 taxable value (this $51,500 is the $50,000 from last year with an increase of 3%, so your taxable value is now $51,500 instead of the orginal $50,000. Now do this over 20 years, and tell me it will not cost you more?
I will even work it out for you for the next 5 years to show you what I mean:
mils taxable V cost you each year for 20 years incrementally
.0035 x $50,000=$175 first year
.0035 x $51,500=$180 second year
.0035 x $53,045=$185 third year
.0035 x $54,636=$191 4th year
.0035 x $56,275=$197 5th year
Just keep working this figure to see what you will end up paying, that is how they word it so people who do not understand it, will think, WOW, it won't cost me anymore! Wrong! Yes it will cost you, but the 3.5 mils will not change, they change the other numbers so you will PAY! They do this, because most people do not understand this and this is their way of getting people to give them more money, but some people are to smart for their conniving games. NO TO SCHOOL BOND $39,000,000 PROPOSAL!

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