xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#18822 May 26, 2013
American wrote:
I don't call reducing school staff so that there are 32+ kids in a classroom a success. Kasich has taken away a lot of preschool programs. Should we support a governor that balanced(?) the budget on the backs of Ohio's preschool and school-aged children? The answer is no.
What is it about the word "broke" that you on the left don't understand? Let me explain what broke means: broke means no money. Broke means you are likely in debt. Broke means failure. Why would you choose failure over success?

Sorry, but studies already show that class size is irrelevant to student accomplishment. I went to a private school as a child, and our class size was 35 children. In fact, most all of the grades in that school had classes that size. And I would have put any of our students against public school kids with much smaller classes any day of the week.

Okay, so why do the teachers and unions make such a big deal about class size? Because the smaller the classes, the more teachers that are needed. The more teachers that are needed, the more union dues collected.

In a perfect world, that would be fine. But the fact is government is draining us dry. My city of Maple Heights lost a million dollars a year in state funds. We got by. Our locals had to cut here and cut there. Our city Council took a pay reduction. They laid off city employees that were obviously not needed. You can do it if you really have to.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#18823 May 26, 2013
DON W SOUTH wrote:
<quoted text>Libs believe that the answer to solving a problem is to keep on doing what is not working.
It's the "gimme" mentality. Give me what I want, and I don't care how it's paid for. It's not my problem.

Certainly we all like to support our party and politicians. But when we on the right have a bad apple, we turn our backs on them. And if there is a politician on the other side of the fence doing a descent job, then why change that?

You won't find many kind words about Bob Taft from people on the right. He was a terrible Governor. He was a well educated man particularly in politics, but just because he was a Republican doesn't mean he was success. He was a clown. I didn't vote for him for his second term.

The gimme mentality is why we reelected a failed President. I got my food stamps, I got my government cell phone, I got my HUD home in the suburbs, vote for the guy that gave me all this. Now we are approaching 17 trillion dollars in debt, and the gimme people could give two ships less. It's not their problem. Half of the people in this country depend either partially or entirely on a government check. Almost half the people in this country pay NO income tax at all. Other taxes? Yes they do, but not income taxes, and that's where all the funding for this free stuff comes from.

What we are experiencing in this country now is the cart theory. When everybody is pulling an empty car, the cart flies down the road. As people quit pulling the cart and instead, jump inside of the cart, the cart slows down. When more than half of the people quit pulling the cart and jump in the cart instead, the cart stops. That's where we are currently at today.
American

United States

#18824 May 26, 2013
This information is from the Fair School Funding Coalition.

Research on Class Size Benefits

There have been three largest studies done on comparing smaller to larger class sizes. These were the STAR study in Tennessee, the SAGE studies in Wisconsin and the CSR studies in California. All three studies reached the same conclusion, that smaller class sizes result in significant gains in student achievement which endure to graduation and beyond. Because brain development occurs at a much faster rate early in life, investing in small class sizes in elementary school has shown the greatest benefits for children. These benefits are not merely in terms of academic benefits measured on achievement tests. But they also include social benefits including better verbal skills, better social skills and better coping skills for overcome challenges and problems as well as improved self esteem. However, smaller class sizes have also been shown to benefit middle school and high school students by increasing both test scores and graduation rates.
I Agree

United States

#18825 May 26, 2013
American wrote:
I don't call reducing school staff so that there are 32+ kids in a classroom a success. Kasich has taken away a lot of preschool programs. Should we support a governor that balanced(?) the budget on the backs of Ohio's preschool and school-aged children? The answer is no.
Republican leaders don't care who they step on to get their agenda through. I bet Kasich's kids don't go to a school where they are in a class of over 30. I am looking forward to life after Kasich.
woo-boy

Waverly, OH

#18826 May 26, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
What is it about the word "broke" that you on the left don't understand? Let me explain what broke means: broke means no money. Broke means you are likely in debt. Broke means failure. Why would you choose failure over success?
Sorry, but studies already show that class size is irrelevant to student accomplishment. I went to a private school as a child, and our class size was 35 children. In fact, most all of the grades in that school had classes that size. And I would have put any of our students against public school kids with much smaller classes any day of the week.
Okay, so why do the teachers and unions make such a big deal about class size? Because the smaller the classes, the more teachers that are needed. The more teachers that are needed, the more union dues collected.
In a perfect world, that would be fine. But the fact is government is draining us dry. My city of Maple Heights lost a million dollars a year in state funds. We got by. Our locals had to cut here and cut there. Our city Council took a pay reduction. They laid off city employees that were obviously not needed. You can do it if you really have to.
Tax dollars should not be spent on private religious schools that don't have to take every child, but rather can cherry pick students and leave the rest to the state to worry about. And tax dollars should not be spent on for-profit and non-profit charters either. There's no evidence they are doing a better job than public schools and in too many instances they have done a worse job and wasted millions of tax dollars.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#18827 May 26, 2013
woo-boy wrote:
<quoted text>Tax dollars should not be spent on private religious schools that don't have to take every child, but rather can cherry pick students and leave the rest to the state to worry about. And tax dollars should not be spent on for-profit and non-profit charters either. There's no evidence they are doing a better job than public schools and in too many instances they have done a worse job and wasted millions of tax dollars.
I don't think the public should be funding any school including public schools. You want kids? Then you feed them, you clothe them, you watch them, you educate them.

Over half of my property taxes goes to fund schools that I (nor my tenants) have children in. How did it become my responsibility to educate other people's kids? How did it become my responsibility to feed them, provide them busses to get to school, and provide a football stadium?
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#18828 May 26, 2013
American wrote:
This information is from the Fair School Funding Coalition.
Research on Class Size Benefits
There have been three largest studies done on comparing smaller to larger class sizes. These were the STAR study in Tennessee, the SAGE studies in Wisconsin and the CSR studies in California. All three studies reached the same conclusion, that smaller class sizes result in significant gains in student achievement which endure to graduation and beyond. Because brain development occurs at a much faster rate early in life, investing in small class sizes in elementary school has shown the greatest benefits for children. These benefits are not merely in terms of academic benefits measured on achievement tests. But they also include social benefits including better verbal skills, better social skills and better coping skills for overcome challenges and problems as well as improved self esteem. However, smaller class sizes have also been shown to benefit middle school and high school students by increasing both test scores and graduation rates.
"But there is a substantial body of research to suggest that kids in small classes don’t necessarily learn more. In the range of things that schools can do to improve outcomes for your child, reducing class size may rank a distant fourth behind solid teacher training, a clear and well-sequenced curriculum, and a staff that is well supported and regularly evaluated. For decades, class size was largely a function of a community’s population. A lot of kids born in a particular year? The local school found a way to cram them into classrooms. In the 1970s, though, as the discussion of the achievement gap sharpened and schools began to be seen as an instrument of racial oppression,“overcrowding” became a catch-all concept for the inequities between poor and middle-class kids in public education. Writers like liberal activist Jonathan Kozol decried the antiquated, crumbling, and overcrowded classrooms where poor children had their dreams denied.“The overcrowded classroom” was associated with poor performance, high truancy, and high rates of juvenile crime.

Does class size matter? For some interesting reasons, it’s hard for researchers to come up with a definitive answer. A group of analysts followed children over time and correlated the size of the class they were assigned to with how much they learned. Ordinarily, these would be juicy studies, but how kids ended up in classes with small teacher-student ratios created some confounding factors. Children who attended elementary school in affluent Wilmette, Illinois, for example, may have been educated in classes that had fifteen kids and one teacher and showed huge gains in their academic achievement compared to kids in larger classes in nearby inner-city Chicago. But was it the class size or the opportunities that went along with privilege that made the difference?"

http://www.salon.com/2011/08/06/good_school_e...
Old Guy

New Carlisle, OH

#18829 May 26, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>

Sorry, but studies already show that class size is irrelevant to student accomplishment.
"Research, for the most part, tends to support the belief in the benefits of small classes. While not all studies on the subject have shown that students learn more in smaller settings—and some are still ongoing—most have linked smaller classes to improvements in achievement.

The biggest and most credible of those studies, Tennessee’s statewide Student/Teacher Achievement Ratio, or STAR, project, begun in the late 1970s, found that the learning gains students made in classes of 13 to 17 students persisted long after the students moved back into average-size classes (HEROS, 2011). What’s more, the Tennessee researchers found, poor and African-American students appeared to reap the greatest learning gains in smaller classes. After kindergarten, the gains black students made in smaller classes were typically twice as large as those for whites. Follow-up studies through the years have found the students who had been in small classes in their early years had better academic and personal outcomes throughout their school years and beyond (Krueger, 2001; Sparks, 2011).

Likewise, a 2001 evaluation of the Student Achievement Guarantee in Education, or SAGE, class size reduction program by researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee found that a five-year-old program of class-size reduction in Wisconsin resulted in higher achievement for children living in poverty. Research from Columbia University Teachers College in New York showed the context of class-size reduction can affect its success in improving student achievement (Ready, 2008). Similarly, Charles M. Achilles, one of the original principal researchers on the STAR study, has said researchers and policymakers will have difficulty replicating the improvements seen in the STAR study without including key elements of that program, such as early intervention and small class sizes of three years or more (Achilles, 2008).

http://www.edweek.org/ew/issues/class-size/
Old Guy

New Carlisle, OH

#18830 May 26, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think the public should be funding any school including public schools. You want kids? Then you feed them, you clothe them, you watch them, you educate them.
Do you support eliminating deductions for children from our tax code? Most conservatives seem to like those deductions, even though they are quite willing to slash funding to public schools.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#18831 May 26, 2013
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you support eliminating deductions for children from our tax code? Most conservatives seem to like those deductions, even though they are quite willing to slash funding to public schools.
Yes, I have no problem getting rid of write-offs for kids. Perhaps it was a good idea when families were one income. Today it's not really needed for two income families.

I think I would keep them for people who send their children to private school and those who provide schooling at home. My sister paid a lot of property tax where she lives which most went to support the public schools, and then had to take loans to send her kids to private school. So those folks could use any help they get.

But I think that if everybody has to support the public school system, at the very least, parents should provide much more funding than those of us with no kids in school. When the schools get a bug up their azz, they put out levies to rebuild new schools, give teachers raises, buy news busses or whatever. Of course those of us with no kids in the system vote no while parents vote yes. The yes's usually win. In that sense, what they are really voting for is to take money out of my wallet to give to their children. I see nothing fair about that system. Especially when you consider I may be paying more for that school than the parents that vote for the bill because I have a larger property, and therefor pay higher taxes anyway.
LorenEberly

Andover, OH

#18832 May 26, 2013
Veterans:
The majority of Us the Government of this Representative Republic that vote and the nonvoters that sit on their dead hands and whine; insist on electing and reelecting Obnoxious President, Vice President, Governor, Representatives of US the Government, County Commissioners, Township Trustees, Mayors, City Council, School Administrators and Board Members.
That defies USA Labor Law, The Constitution, and demands of Natural Law: what Mother Nature, God, or Whatever Power decreed to be the reality of the real world, democracy, capitalism, the US Constitution, and free, fair, and affordable commerce and common sense demands.
Demanding every Business Owner and their Stockholders, corporation, farmer, business, outsourcer sweatshop, and nonprofit, tax-exempt, organization and Church; markets the cost in the wholesale and retail price of his or her product and service; of every veteran, worker, consumer, and taxpayer's wages (union contract), healthcare, pension, investment and independent business profit.
This enables every veteran, worker, consumer, and taxpayer to pay healthcare insurance premium or pay healthcare provider. Pay ALL taxes and pay for every product and service they use for life. With money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.
And enables every parent and veteran to educate, love, nurse, nurture, discipline, protect, and provide; for every child (job) they conceive. And fund schools, infrastructure, local and national security, government services, and etc.; with money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.
And holds Veterans, Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and America’s grandchildren’s children, Government employees, Parents, Teachers, Police, Firemen, and Fathers disqualified for affirmative action with white skin, Representatives deny Collective Bargaining Rights accountable.
To fund Illegal drug users and Illegal Immigrants, lottery, casino, and keno losers, unemployed Union workers replaced with nonunion workers, Human Traffickers, waitresses that pander for life for $2.00 per hour, slaves in tax abated enterprise zones, low-income child labor, consumers, and taxpayers, volunteers without wages, and nonunion workers willing to work for fewer wages than they can afford life. That pays with welfare checks, food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid.
Pay income tax, Social Security, and road tax Amish evade paying 10% of their income to nonprofit, tax exempt, Amish Church.
Pay sales tax on the more stock dividends (money) OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders (money marketers) market quarterly. In the wholesale and retail price of every product and service Human Beings use for life. And School Boards and Government needs to build, maintain and operate schools, infrastructure, and provide local and national security, and Government services. Vendors collect without compensation.
Needed to measure and maintain the strength and growth of this UNAFFORDABLE economy and distribute money Human Beings cannot digest, burn in internal combustion engines, or burn to heat and cool their American Dream. Into OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders portfolios.
This Makes free, fair, and affordable commerce IMPOSSIBLE; Makes funding schools IMPOSSIBLE; Makes balancing every budget IMPOSSIBLE; Makes Veterans, Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and Americas grandchildren's children life UNAFFORDABLE; and created Ohio’s $1.35 trillion budget deficit, the $40 trillion social security and the $16 trillion national debt. America’s grandchildren’s children are responsible to pay Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders interest with this debt until they are 18 years old.
America’s grandchildren’s children cannot pay this debt in a hundred million years.
Old Guy

New Carlisle, OH

#18833 May 26, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I have no problem getting rid of write-offs for kids.
Wow, I'm impressed. That shows that you are being logically consistent, and not just acting from naked self interest.
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I would keep them for people who send their children to private school and those who provide schooling at home.
Ah, that's more the response I was expecting from you! So, you like the income tax deductions for kids, but only for folks like you?
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I would keep them for people who send their children to private school and those who provide schooling at home. My sister paid a lot of property tax where she lives which most went to support the public schools, and then had to take loans to send her kids to private school.
Of course, there are no child deductions for property taxes, only for income taxes.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#18834 May 27, 2013
As I pointed out, I don't think schooling is the responsibility of anybody else but the parents. But since it is, that's why I could see a write-off. In my sisters case, she was paying heavily to have other people's children educated through property tax, and she was paying out the nose to have her kids educated. She and her husband took on the responsibility to educate their own children. Why shouldn't she get a tax break?

The same holds true for home school parents. They take on the responsibility of educating their own children while paying good money to educate the children of others. The only way to accomplish that is to sacrifice a full time income.

I have a friend who went that route. He wanted to raise his family of five. His wife was a certified respiratory therapist. But they elected for her to give up her career to home school. He has two jobs: one with the company I work for, and another with the county. He's been working seven days a week for the last 22 years non-stop.

Sure people like that should get a tax break. At the national average cost of $12,000 per year per pupil in public school, think of the money they save the city, county and state every year.
Old Guy

New Carlisle, OH

#18835 May 27, 2013
Xxxrayted, you seem to be in a difficult spot. You want to justify the deductions for children on federal income taxes, but the only way you can do it is by trying to shift the argument to local property taxes (which don't have tax deductions for children.)

But, if you rather talk about property taxes, how do you feel about churches being exempt from them? Many churches own large tracts of land, but pay no property taxes (even though they use the services those taxes support.)

Just as you complain about paying property taxes for schools that you don't use, why should people that do not attend church be forced to subsidize those that do through tax exemptions for church property?
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#18836 May 27, 2013
Old Guy wrote:
Xxxrayted, you seem to be in a difficult spot. You want to justify the deductions for children on federal income taxes, but the only way you can do it is by trying to shift the argument to local property taxes (which don't have tax deductions for children.)
But, if you rather talk about property taxes, how do you feel about churches being exempt from them? Many churches own large tracts of land, but pay no property taxes (even though they use the services those taxes support.)
Just as you complain about paying property taxes for schools that you don't use, why should people that do not attend church be forced to subsidize those that do through tax exemptions for church property?
I'm not crazy about churches paying no taxes. But on the other hand, what could happen if they were not exempt from taxes?

That would allow the church to preach about anything they desire. Religion is still influential with a lot of people. They could be telling their parishioners that the Democrats party is the party of demons since they promote the murder of babies and strive to take God out of society outside of church and home. They may target Republicans who don't believe in government helping out the poor, or that Republicans are evil because they support wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Who knows?

Whatever political agenda the church decides on could mean serious problems for politicians and/or parties. Of course anybody taking away such tax exemptions would be looked at as attacking religion, so you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.
Old Guy

New Carlisle, OH

#18837 May 27, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not crazy about churches paying no taxes. But on the other hand, what could happen if they were not exempt from taxes?
That would allow the church to preach about anything they desire.
Oh, you mean that the churches would then actively promote political candidates, and instruct their faithful to vote for them?

"The meeting offered no public discussion of an April sermon by Illinois Bishop Daniel Jenky...

After asserting that Obama, "with his radical, pro-abortion and extreme secularist agenda" seemed to be on an anti-Catholic path similar to Hitler and Stalin, Jenky exhorted all Catholics to "vote their Catholic consciences" this fall."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/21/us-...
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#18838 May 27, 2013
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, you mean that the churches would then actively promote political candidates, and instruct their faithful to vote for them?
"The meeting offered no public discussion of an April sermon by Illinois Bishop Daniel Jenky...
After asserting that Obama, "with his radical, pro-abortion and extreme secularist agenda" seemed to be on an anti-Catholic path similar to Hitler and Stalin, Jenky exhorted all Catholics to "vote their Catholic consciences" this fall."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/21/us-...
That's exactly what I mean, except picture that tenfold.

In my opinion, once you start with the politics stuff, you get your tax exemption pulled no questions asked.
Old Guy

New Carlisle, OH

#18839 May 27, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
In my opinion, once you start with the politics stuff, you get your tax exemption pulled no questions asked.
It's nice to know that we can agree about some things!
Tazzie

UK

#18840 May 27, 2013
They need someone from a place like Greenfield to run
Because none of the idiots that are putting up have nothing in coman with small town rural Ohio and who ever makes it wont make any difference to my life
They spat us out and sold us out years ago
I cant even make ends meet despite having two jobs
And i live in the richest country in the world something wrong ?
LorenEberly

Mount Vernon, OH

#18841 May 27, 2013
Fathers With White Skin Disqualified For Affirmative Action:

The majority of Us the Government of this Representative Republic that vote and the nonvoters that sit on their dead hands and whine; insist on electing Obnoxious President, Vice President, Governor, Representatives of US the Government, County Commissioners, Township Trustees, Mayors, City Council, School Administrators and Board Members with socialist, racist principles and values.

That supports defying USA Labor Law, The Constitution, and demands of Natural Law: what Mother Nature, God, or Whatever Power decreed to be the reality of the real world, democracy, capitalism, the US Constitution, and free, fair, and affordable commerce and common sense demands.

Demanding every Business Owner and their Stockholders, corporation, farmer, business, outsourcer sweatshop, and nonprofit, tax-exempt, organization and Church; markets the cost in the wholesale and retail price of his or her product and service; of every worker, consumer, and taxpayer's wages (union contract), healthcare, pension, investment and independent business profit.

This enables every worker, consumer, and taxpayer to pay healthcare insurance premium or pay healthcare provider. Pay ALL taxes and pay for every product and service they use for life. With money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.

And holds Fathers disqualified for affirmative action with white skin, Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and America’s grandchildren’s children, Government employees, Parents, Teachers, Veterans, Police, Firemen; Representatives deny Collective Bargaining Rights accountable.

To fund Illegal drug users and Illegal Immigrants, lottery, casino, and keno losers, unemployed Union workers replaced with nonunion workers, Human Traffickers, waitresses that pander for life for $2.00 per hour, slaves in tax abated enterprise zones, low-income child labor, consumers, and taxpayers, volunteers without wages, and nonunion workers willing to work for fewer wages than they can afford life. That pays with welfare checks, food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid.

Pay income, social security and road tax Amish evade paying 10% of their income derived from wages, Ponzi credit certificates, and independent business profit to nonprofit, tax exempt, Amish Church.

Pay for all stimulus packages, tax abatements, tax incentives, tax refunds, tax credit, and tax exemptions.

Pay sales tax on the more stock dividends (money) OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders (money marketers) market quarterly. In the wholesale and retail price of every product and service Human Beings use for life. And School Boards and Government needs to build, maintain and operate schools, infrastructure, and provide local and national security, and Government services. That gets only product or service.

Needed to measure and maintain the strength and growth of this UNAFFORDABLE economy and distribute money Human Beings cannot digest, burn in internal combustion engines, or burn to heat and cool their American Dream. Into OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders portfolios.

This Makes free, fair, and affordable commerce IMPOSSIBLE; Makes funding schools IMPOSSIBLE; Makes balancing every budget IMPOSSIBLE; Makes Fathers disqualified for affirmative action with white skin, Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and Americas grandchildren's children life UNAFFORDABLE; and created Ohio’s $1.35 trillion budget deficit, the $40 trillion social security and the $16 trillion national debt. America’s grandchildren’s children are responsible to pay Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders interest with this debt until they are 18 years old.

America’s grandchildren’s children cannot pay this debt in a hundred million years.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Defiance Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Tattoo shop (Jan '12) 10 hr I am Educated 8
Applebutter Fest draws thousands Nov 6 partisan 1
Suspect arrested for murder in cold case Nov 6 partisan 4
Jerry Buti Oct '14 really Joe? 3
False informatio in Putnam County Commissies race Oct '14 diemerbarb 1
Kamryn Gerkin (Oct '09) Sep '14 His landlord 86
Alysha Moran Sep '14 Chasiti speiser 3
Defiance Dating
Find my Match

Defiance People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Defiance News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Defiance

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]

NFL Latest News

Updated 10:17 am PST

Bleacher Report10:17AM
Watt Sends Pizza, Heartfelt Letter to Policemen, Firemen
Bleacher Report12:13 PM
Can Browns Survive Without Gipson?
NBC Sports12:24 PM
Dolphins bring back cornerback R.J. Stanford
NBC Sports12:49 PM
Bengals kicker Nugent perfect since overtime miss - NBC Sports
ESPN12:58 PM
Bengals' Smith (torn triceps) goes on IR