Make businesses pay for hiring illegals | APP.com | Asbury Park Press

A state lawmaker's proposal to lift the licenses of New Jersey businesses that knowingly hire illegal immigrants could do what the federal government has failed to do: stem the tide of illegals that has taxed local services, depressed wages and taken jobs away from citizens.

[Freehold Ed I Tor]

Is this counter intuitive to Corizine's Blue Ribbon Committee on Immigrants?

[tom baldwin]

of course you know in advance how i feel about this subject.. this is another attempt to starve the undocumented day laborers away from here, the same as was tried without success back in 2003-4.. wilson, and company this "aint gonna happen" i am glad however that mr. schurr revealed his true colors.. intolerance will never succeed..

[Freehold Ed I Tor]

Tom
at what point does employing an illegal undocumented person ok? after 12 illegal immigrants, 120 immigrants, 1,200 immigrants, 12,000 immigrants, 120,000 immigrants, 1,200,000 immigrants, 12,000,000 immigrants.

when criminal actions are on a massive scale, you suggest decriminalisation. most americans will disagree

[tom baldwin]

it would be nice if you folks could ask your ancestors the same question that you asked me.. must i keep saying that all of the european people that came here in the first half of the last century came here for the same reasons are coming now.. what kind of documention did these folks have??? most of these people were poor.. they came here a lot of them prospered..some even became rich, and in turn and hired others, including a lot of americans.. all i am saying that these people are here because they are being employed.. if they were not given employment, then they would not come.. let's live and allow others the chance that your ancestors were given

[Freehold Ed I Tor]

tom baldwin wrote:

it would be nice if you folks could ask your ancestors the same question that you asked me.. must i keep saying that all of the european people that came here in the first half of the last century came here for the same reasons are coming now.. what kind of documention did these folks have??? most of these people were poor.. they came here a lot of them prospered..some even became rich, and in turn and hired others, including a lot of americans.. all i am saying that these people are here because they are being employed.. if they were not given employment, then they would not come.. let's live and allow others the chance that your ancestors were given

Tom- your not serious, Europeans you talking of put their children to work in sweatshops at the age of 8, there was zero social welfare to take advantage of either. The over whelming majority came here with documentation Mr.Baldwin, yes its true, with documentation or they were not allowed off Ellis Island. These Immigrants were subjected to "intelligece" testing, and thorough medical examinations, and 10's of thousands had been turned away after failing this screening process.

The period of time your reference involved people legal immigrants escaping global depression, famine, tyranny, oppression and persecution.

On the contrary, mexico for example is a highly democratic oil producing country with a strong agricultural economy that is heavily subsidized by the US government. The world bank has been very generous with lending 10's of billions to mexico and the US has taken the lead in support of renegotiating lower interest loan repayment's. The Wealth Report brought news of a new titleholder for richest man in the world: Carlos Slim, the Mexican telecom tycoon.

No comparison between 1908 immigration and 2008 illegal immigration. Its all greed and politics. Sorry to inform you, but you have a selective retelling of history. Stop telling 1/2 truths and misleading lies, because you will be proven grossly mistaken every timeb my friend.

[tom baldwin]

who is the one that is lying?? i am not.. i am a student of history and i know for a fact that thousands of europeans came here with no kinds of papers, whatsoever.. what happened in many cases, the railroads would contract for laborers to build the railroads, other contractors hired thousands of laborers to dig the canals and of course you speak of the sweatshops and the child labor and other indignities that your people suffered..all of this is true and should have never happened, but unfortunately it did. dont tell me about medical exams or other ---- like that.. what about all the diseases the europeans brought over here that infected and killed thousands of my people.. it is true that mexico should be considered a very rich country with its natural resources and its agriculture being subsided by the us government.. the problem is because of the corruption that very little of the wealth filters down to the peasants.. there is practically no middle class in mexico.. to me telling a half truth is worse than telling a lie..that is why i try not to do that..there is a shameful history practised on all classes and types of people by the majority.. this is something that has happened all during the history of mankind,,and yet we call ourselves christians.. what hypocrites we are

[Colonial Citizen]

tom baldwin wrote:

you speak of the sweatshops and the child labor and other indignities that your people suffered..all of this is true and should have never happened, but unfortunately it did. dont tell me about medical exams or other ---- like that.. what about all the diseases the europeans brought over here that infected and killed thousands of my people..

"your people" & "my people"??? Tom- Are you NOT an American? Alot of bad things happened to ALL people who came here. Most of the early crossers were indentured servants. They were not free! They earned their freedom by working for someone else for a certain period of time. Some ethnic groups were brought here against their will to work. Some ethnic groups were driven west and massacred like cattle. Do you know that thousands of white AMERICANS were captured by the British Navy in the early 1800's? They were impressed into service aboard British vessals. That's the reason we went to war with Britain in 1812. Do you know that the British sold thousands of white AMERICAN sailors into slavery in Africa? Well it's true! One was my ancestor James Doughty. He had a wife and 3 small children. They thought he was dead and his wife re-married. The US gov't sent Stephen Decatur to Algiers and after defeating the Dey of Algiers, gained the freedom of many Americans. James Doughty returned home 7 years after he left. He too re-married and had 11 more children. So Mr. Baldwin, what you need to realize is that your being here, in this great nation, was paid for by many before you. So, make the best of what they have given you and try to make America a better place! You sir,ARE "my people"!(If you want to be or not!) Let's not dwell on long-past unpleasantries that were no fault of yours or mine. Let's help Americans 1st!

(I'm Colonial Citizen and I approve this message -Colonial Citizen for President 2008)

[kenny j]

Mr Baldwin

YOU know for a fact that thousands of europeans came here with no kinds of papers? Please share the source of these facts, where can these facts be examinted? I have seen my grandparents papers, their parents papers, uncles, aunts ect....my family respected the land they chose to imagrate to, and and these family artifact we are very proud of. I have pass ports, Birth Certs., steam ship tickets, the works.

Sorry, but the fact is, Ed is correct, no one was let off ellis island without papers. Your history teachers who created the history student you profess to be, need to turn in their teaching licenses.

About the diseases the europeans brought over here"...., you are refering to the Spainish, Hernan Cortes and his conquistadors. They story is that they whiped out the Mayans, Inca's and Aztecs and Toltecs.

Epidemics followed the Spanish arrival in the New World, but the worst killer may have been a shadowy NATIVE—a killer that could still be out there.

The fevers were contagious, burning, and continuous, all of them pestilential, in most part lethal. The tongue was dry and black. Enormous thirst. Urine of the colors of sea-green, vegetal green, and black, sometimes passing from the greenish color to the pale. Pulse was frequent, fast, small, and weak—sometimes even null. The eyes and the whole body were yellow. This stage was followed by delirium and seizures. Then, hard and painful nodules appeared behind one or both ears along with heartache, chest pain, abdominal pain, tremor, great anxiety, and dysentery. The blood that flowed when cutting a vein had a green color or was very pale, dry, and without serosity.... Blood flowed from the ears and in many cases blood truly gushed from the nose.... This epidemic attacked mainly young people and seldom the elder ones.

"This was certainly not smallpox," Acuña-Soto says. "If they described something real, then it appeared to be a hemorrhagic fever."

Hemorrhagic fevers are viral diseases with names that evoke justifiable dread—Ebola, Marburg, Lassa. They strike with sudden intensity, rarely respond to treatment, kill at high rates, then vanish as mysteriously as they came. They are called hemorrhagic because victims bleed, hemorrhaging in their capillaries, beneath the skin, often from the mouth, nose, and ears. The bleeding doesn't kill, but the breakdown of the nervous system does. At first there is fever, fatigue, and dizziness, but within a few days the person falls into delirium and finally a coma.

All types of hemorrhagic viruses share traits. They are extremely simple, composed only of RNA enveloped in a fatty membrane, and they all must develop first in an animal host—often rodents or bats—and are spread by insects such as ticks or mosquitoes. A bite, direct exposure to rodent feces or urine, or indirect exposure through windblown particles can pass the virus to human

If cocolitzli had been caused by a hemorrhagic virus, Acuña-Soto realized, the Spanish could not have brought it with them. Such diseases do not readily pass from one person to another, so the virus must have been native.

This raised two questions. First, were people prepared to absolve the Spanish of responsibility for one of the great evils of the colonial era? The destruction of ancient Mexico's culture by the Spanish invaders is an integral part of every Mexican's understanding of the country's history. The miseries of the plague years are taken as object lessons in the evils of colonialism. "My grandmother wrote histories, and the terrible things that the Spanish did were always a part of them," says Acuña-Soto. The second question was rooted in science: If the Spanish didn't bring about the cocolitzli, what did?

Hoo and it was the Spaniards who lovingly forced Christ on the indigenous americans in a very unchristian way, but I am not the history student you are.

[Colonial Citizen]

kenny j wrote:

About the diseases the europeans brought over here"...., you are refering to the Spainish, Hernan Cortes and his conquistadors. They story is that they whiped out the Mayans, Inca's and Aztecs and Toltecs.

Kenny J- HAHAHAHA! So, Mr. Baldwin MUST be part Mayan or Incan or Aztec or Toltec (as he said "my people" were killed by diseases brought by "Europeans"). And so, the "Europeans" who brought this great plague upon his people were Spanish,(now Central Americans! ie-Mexicans!) HAHAHA! The very people he feels so bad for and will sell America out for are the descendants of the very people who killed his people!!! HAHAHAHA! How ironic! Thank you for the history lesson! I am a student of history. On a seriuos note, I do think that this is the route all of America should go. Take away the illegals reason for being here (ie-work) and they will self-deport! No need to spend million$ trying to locate and send these people back. It would also open up many new entry-level jobs for young Americans by forcing businesses to finally play by the rules!

[kenny j]

Frankly, all the more reason to learn english, and dump the evil conquistador tounge.

~"the railroads would contract for laborers to build the railroads" Go ask an asian american, these railroad workers were brought here as slaves too.

Ohh, and "all of this is true and should have never happened" but thats why the immigrants of 1908 came here, the streets were lined with gold and children were allowed to work, child labor laws did not exist.

"the problem is because of the corruption that very little of the wealth filters down to the peasants.. there is practically no middle class in mexico." so why don't the illegal undocumented yell as hard against mexican corruption while in mexico, as hard as they yell for allowence and undeserved entitelments here in the USA? and the illegal undocumented slipping in here are causing serious erotion of AMERICAN middle class.

"this is something that has happened all during the history of mankind,,and yet we call ourselves christians." WTF are you talking about? Chineese are not calling themselves christians, nor are Jordanians, Kenyans, Turkes, Japanees, Most everyone from asia, Packistan, India, come to think of it the over whelming majority of earthlings are not calling themselves christians.

Baldwin man, whats your point?