TEC: Tread softly for you tread on my neck

Apr 2, 2011 Full story: www.virtueonline.org 23

After a challenging address by the PB to "show up" in the various challenging venues of today's world, we had a report from a committee on changes in governance of The Episcopal Church, concerns about the new Title IV Canon revisions, a report from the committee on same gender blessings, and from a group looking to devise a process for the "reconciliation or dissolution of a pastoral relationship between a bishop and a diocese" ...

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“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#1 Apr 2, 2011
from virtueonline:

"The new Title IV Canon revisions (clergy discipline), give Metropolitan Jefferts Schori unprecedented powers for devising a process for the 'reconciliation or dissolution of a pastoral relationship between a bishop and a diocese.' The sovereign rights of dioceses be damned."

TEC will be "Episcopal" in name only.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#2 Apr 2, 2011
Y A W N......

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#3 Apr 2, 2011
MiddleWay wrote:
Y A W N......
Must be nap time for M-way and the rest of TEC, which will be Episcopal in name only.

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#4 Apr 2, 2011
the present Presiding Bishop was elected.

Of course Virtue would hate this section of Canon Law. If it had been in place earlier while Duncan, Iker and Schofield were robbing TEC of its' assets the church would be a better place.

Virtue is worried that Bishop Lawrence of South Carolina will soon be put on trial for his actions in South Caroline.

As for the newness of Title IV the changes to this section of Canon Law were started long before she was elected to office.

Example from Episcopal News Service Archives ( www.epsicopalchurch.org )

REPORT TO THE 76TH GENERAL CONVENTION

TITLE IV TASK FORCE II ON DISCIPLINARY POLICIES AND PROCEDURES

SUMMARY OF WORK

In the face of criticisms that the 1994 Title IV (then in use) was overly militaristic and rigid in its application and lacked a theological foundation, the 73rd General Convention resolved that a Task Force should be formed, charged
with the responsibility of reviewing the existing Title IV, researching the disciplinary policies and procedures of other churches and various professions, making an interim report to the 2003 General Convention and bring to the 75th
General Convention recommendations for the revision of Title IV of the Constitution and Canons of The Episcopal Church.(See GC Resolution 2000-A028).

After six years of work (summarized on pages 408-410 in the 2006 Task Force Blue Book Report), the Task Force submitted a complete revision of Title IV to the 75th General Convention for its consideration (Resolution A153, Proposed Title IV Revisions). Following extensive debate in the Cognate Canons Committee of both the House of
Deputies and the House of Bishops, the Committee determined to send an alternate A153 to the legislative floors.

This alternate was adopted by both Houses, and states:

Resolved, That the 75th General Convention express its sincere and abiding appreciation and gratitude for the diligent, intensive and dedicated work and leadership of the Task Force on Disciplinary Policies and Procedures (“Task Force I”) since 2001 in the research, drafting, listening, and communicating of and about its work to develop a comprehensive revision to Title IV of the Church Canons, so that our Canons on discipline reflect our ecclesiology and theology; and be it further
Resolved, That the 75th General Convention endorse the principles and values expressed in Task Force I’s proposed new Canon IV.1:

By virtue of our Baptismal Covenant, all members of this Church are called to holiness of life and
accountability to one another. The Church and each Diocese shall support their members in their life in Christ and shall hold one another accountable as provided in this Title; and be it further
Resolved, That the 75th General Convention acknowledge that the work of Task Force I requires further work, reflection and perfection; and be it further....

Continued in next comment.

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#5 Apr 2, 2011
Example from Episcopal News Service Archives ( www.epsicopalchurch.org )

REPORT TO THE 76TH GENERAL CONVENTION

TITLE IV TASK FORCE II ON DISCIPLINARY POLICIES AND PROCEDURES

SUMMARY OF WORK

Resolved, That Resolution A153 and the work of and documents from Task Force I be referred to a new Title IV Task Force (“Task Force II”) of twelve persons comprising: three members appointed by the Standing Commission on Constitution and Canons, three members appointed by the Standing Commission on Ministry Development, and six other members, to include three members of Task Force I, jointly appointed by the President of the House of Deputies and the Presiding Bishop. Task Force II shall be charged to complete and perfect this vital work, continuing the focus on the following critical goals, concerns and values:

1. Reflect the values, ecclesiology, and theology of the Church;

2. Move Title IV towards a reconciliation model for all appropriate circumstances;

3. Encourage the prompt resolution of conflicts in the Church and the reconciliation of persons
involved in those conflicts at the earliest appropriate time and the lowest appropriate level of the Church;

4. Consider the possible inclusion of certain Lay Persons in Title IV whose office or other leadership role makes inclusion appropriate, provided the treatment of their accountability and discipline is commensurate with their lay status, responsibilities and commitments;

5. Maintain the historic pastoral role and canonical authority of Bishops; and

6. Respect the roles, rights, and integrity of those persons subject to Title IV, and of injured persons, communities, Parishes, Missions, Congregations, and the Church.

And be it further Resolved, That Task Force II meet during the next triennium, giving the Church due notice of its meetings; that it make available such periodic reports of its work as will best inform the Church of its activities; and that
it make a final report, with a proposed Title IV revision along with explanatory and educational materials, to the 76th General Convention not later than January 1, 2009, and be it further

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#6 Apr 2, 2011
T McCabe wrote:
the present Presiding Bishop was elected ...
... to destroy the Episcopal Church as an episopacy?

That's what's going to happen when the propsoed Title IV revisions make bishops no longer sovereign over their own dioceses.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#7 Apr 2, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
... to destroy the Episcopal Church as an episopacy?
That's what's going to happen when the propsoed Title IV revisions make bishops no longer sovereign over their own dioceses.
No. It will make potentially renegade bishops more accountable to the House of Bishops and to the Lay Church representation through the office of the Presiding Bishop.

Why these changes, which will undoubtedly improve the Church's internal responsiveness to both clergy and lay representation and hierarchy to itself and to the direction of the Holy Spirit, will make any difference to you, JDC, is not clear.

RK

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#8 Apr 3, 2011
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
No. It will make potentially renegade bishops more accountable to the House of Bishops and to the Lay Church representation through the office of the Presiding Bishop ...
"through," or TO the office of the Presiding Bishop?

If the latter, bishops are no longer sovereign in their own dioceses, therefore TEC is episcopal in name only.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#9 Apr 3, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
"through," or TO the office of the Presiding Bishop?
If the latter, bishops are no longer sovereign in their own dioceses, therefore TEC is episcopal in name only.
LMAO!

Coming from a roman that's rich!

Bishops are elected, not appointed, under TEC so your little comparison is already bogus.

Deprogrammer for romans - JESUS..........

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#10 Apr 3, 2011
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
LMAO!
Coming from a roman that's rich!
Bishops are elected, not appointed, under TEC so your little comparison is already bogus.
Deprogrammer for romans - JESUS..........
The density of some of these romans is beyond belief.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#11 Apr 3, 2011
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
LMAO!
Coming from a roman that's rich!
Bishops are elected, not appointed ...
That has no bearing on the FACT that under a revised Title IV the PB of TEC will have authority over another bishop's jurisdiction: the Episcopal Church will be episcopal in name only!

And BTW, your new would-be "pope" was a roman.

And didn't you attend roman seminary?

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#12 Apr 3, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
"through," or TO the office of the Presiding Bishop?
If the latter, bishops are no longer sovereign in their own dioceses, therefore TEC is episcopal in name only.
Whatever gave you the idea that any bishop in TEC is "sovereign?"

They are elected within their own Diocese and are accountable thereto. In addition, they are confirmed by a vote of their peers, being the House of Bishops. No bishop within TEC is "sovereign."

Though, I must admit, there have been a handful of late who thought they were. These have had the audacity to try to turn the Gospel of Christ Jesus upon itself and then abscond with the financial assets of the very Diocesan post and collective parishes that they have, by apparent fiat, declared to be no longer of The Episcopal Church.

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#13 Apr 4, 2011
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever gave you the idea that any bishop in TEC is "sovereign?"
They are elected within their own Diocese and are accountable thereto ...
"within their own diocese," but if Title IV revisions go thru, they will also be accountable to the TEC PB.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#14 Apr 4, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
"within their own diocese," but if Title IV revisions go thru, they will also be accountable to the TEC PB.
Deprogrammer for romans - JESUS..........

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#15 Apr 4, 2011
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever gave you the idea that any bishop in TEC is "sovereign?"
They are elected within their own Diocese and are accountable thereto. In addition, they are confirmed by a vote of their peers, being the House of Bishops. No bishop within TEC is "sovereign."
Though, I must admit, there have been a handful of late who thought they were. These have had the audacity to try to turn the Gospel of Christ Jesus upon itself and then abscond with the financial assets of the very Diocesan post and collective parishes that they have, by apparent fiat, declared to be no longer of The Episcopal Church.
Rev. Ken
He's thinking of the southern cone thieves....

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#16 Apr 4, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
... to destroy the Episcopal Church as an episopacy?
That's what's going to happen when the propsoed Title IV revisions make bishops no longer sovereign over their own dioceses.
They have never been totally 'sovereign over their own dioceses'. Even your Church of Rome Bishops have no such authority.

TEC Book of Common Prayer:

The Ordination of a Bishop

The Examination

All now sit, except the bishop-elect, who stands facing the bishops.

The Presiding Bishop addresses the bishop-elect

My brother, the people have chosen you and have affirmed
their trust in you by acclaiming your election. A bishop in
God's holy Church is called to be one with the apostles in
proclaiming Christ's resurrection and interpreting the Gospel,
and to testify to Christ's sovereignty as Lord of lords and
King of kings.

You are called to guard the faith, unity, and discipline of the
Church; to celebrate and to provide for the administration of
the sacraments of the New Covenant; to ordain priests and
deacons and to join in ordaining bishops; and to be in all
things a faithful pastor and wholesome example for the
entire flock of Christ.

With your fellow bishops you will share in the leadership of
the Church throughout the world. Your heritage is the faith
of patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, and those of
every generation who have looked to God in hope. Your joy
will be to follow him who came, not to be served, but to
serve, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Are you persuaded that God has called you to the office of
bishop?

Answer: I am so persuaded.

Bishop: Will you accept this call and fulfill this trust in
obedience to Christ?

Answer: I will obey Christ, and will serve in his name.

Bishop: Will you be faithful in prayer, and in the study of
Holy Scripture, that you may have the mind of
Christ?

Answer: I will, for he is my help.

Bishop: Will you boldly proclaim and interpret the Gospel of
Christ, enlightening the minds and stirring up the
conscience of your people?

Answer: I will, in the power of the Spirit.

Bishop: As a chief priest and pastor, will you encourage and
support all baptized people in their gifts and
ministries, nourish them from the riches of God's
grace, pray for them without ceasing, and celebrate
with them the sacraments of our redemption?

Answer: I will, in the name of Christ, the Shepherd and
Bishop of our souls.

Bishop: Will you guard the faith, unity, and discipline of the
Church of God?

Answer: I will, for the love of God.

Bishop: Will you share with your fellow bishops in the
government of the whole Church; will you sustain
your fellow presbyters and take counsel with them;
will you guide and strengthen the deacons and all
others who minister in the Church?

Answer: I will, by the grace given me.

Bishop: Will you be merciful to all, show compassion to the
poor and strangers, and defend those who have no
helper?

Answer: I will, for the sake of Christ Jesus.

A TEC bishop is accountable to all members of the church. We have to Princes of the Church in TEC.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#17 Apr 4, 2011
T McCabe wrote:
<quoted text>
They have never been totally 'sovereign over their own dioceses'. Even your Church of Rome Bishops have no such authority ...
... because they answer to a pope, but I thought TEC didn't have a pope.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#18 Apr 5, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
... because they answer to a pope, but I thought TEC didn't have a pope.
Maybe you could learn more about TEC by attending classes or looking at a legitimate site on goggle.

Seems to me you were lying about ever being received by TEC, you are TOOOOOO clueless.

I think you met someone who was received and you decided to pretend it was you.

I pray you're not that stupid, but sometimes the answers to our prayers, though not what we expect are extremely enlightening..........

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#19 Apr 5, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
... because they answer to a pope, but I thought TEC didn't have a pope.
You are correct. We have no Living God-King with absolute authority governing TEC. If that is the way you want to govern yourselves in the Church of Rome then have a great time. When in Rome do as the Romans do. LOL!

Our bishops are all elected by the majority of the church and approved by all orders. It is wonderful to have our original Canon Law written by the same men that wrote the US Constitution.

It may interest you to know that originally there was no House of Bishops in the General Convention. The House of Bishops was created by the House of Delegates which was the sole governing authority until it granted the House of Bishops existence and alowed it a voice in governing the church.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#20 Apr 5, 2011
T McCabe wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct. We have no Living God-King with absolute authority governing TEC. If that is the way you want to govern yourselves in the Church of Rome then have a great time. When in Rome do as the Romans do ...
You'll soon be wearing a toga after the Title IV revisions pass and your current PB -- a former roman herself -- becomes all powerful.

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