Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72039 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Frijoles

Portland, CT

#39618 Aug 10, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Shocked that you spelled independently wrong.
I am not. Often I am too lazy to spell check or edit. Lately I have gotten worse. My bad.

I also find I post shorter these days due to meet the intelligence factor here. Sad. It used to be that we got into some good deep discussions.
Frijoles

Portland, CT

#39619 Aug 10, 2012
JOEL PASTAKIA wrote:
<quoted text>
You're accustomed to meeting the middle class Indians who emigrate in droves to the US to study, work and settle down.
That is the highest aim of their miserable life.
They are the ones who mainly speak bad or inferior English and have crude mannerisms.
They resemble MUQ, to give an example.
The upper class-cultured Indians may attend university in the West as most do but they prefer settling down in India in the swanky areas of Mumbai, New Delhi or Pune.
The English spoken by the Indian upper classes is excellent and in most cases is better than the English spoken by most Western speakers.
English is the first language of the Indian upper classes.
i prefer that the upper class Indians who speak and write classy English should combine this talent with adequate knowledge of a perfect classical language like Sanskrit which is their treasured heritage along with the Vedanta which is the grand science of Consciousness.
I find it humorous that your highest aspiration is to emulate the British, and averagedly flawed colonial power. Your countrymen need a spine and a real identity.
Frijoles

Portland, CT

#39620 Aug 10, 2012
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Please note, Joel is losing another discussion. Note the profanity.
Observation duly noted.
hillbillyboy

Johnson City, TN

#39624 Aug 10, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats ok. Tennessee (and Kentucky) are often viewed by many here as existential proof for the theory of alien landings....
I know what you mean about Kentucky. Thar be beasties up yon way!:)
MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#39625 Aug 10, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow. I can't believe I almost missed this. Finally, you admit what is so clearly obviious to everyone else. That your beliefs are NOT based on reason and logic. Good for you, MUQ. This is progress.
You did not answer my question which Lab would have created a millions of tons of Iron, Copper, Gold and Silver and Coal and the Crude Oil.... if it was not already deposited in the earth's crust by our all Knowing and Wise Creator?

And how the machines would have been created in the absence of these metals?

Rack your brains and answer this question.

I already see you and Frijoles and Joel side stepping this question.
hillbillyboy

Johnson City, TN

#39626 Aug 10, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Colorado had promise. It still does. But Tennessee is just plain weird.
Tennessee is weird? You'ns talk funny!

At ayre ole New England Yankee palaverin is about the awfulyest racket I reckon I ever hear-ed. And at ayre bunch is plumb dilatory up yon way to boot. Trifilin Id reckon!

Hit aint fittin for nothin but a pack o rogues. Why, a mans liable to get tronced up yon way.

Ye couldnt law me to go up yonder!

(You uns do speak Appalachian, right?)
mickey mouse

Bedford, MA

#39627 Aug 10, 2012
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Seems to me that I went to school with a bunch of those educated in the west and it was the simpsons daily. Later on in life I've met some of the high class that you speak of and they speak just like the guy on the simpsons. Mini-mart ready.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#39628 Aug 11, 2012
hillbillyboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I know what you mean about Kentucky. Thar be beasties up yon way!:)
rabbee: whaaazz bouts, thu jarzey devol?
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#39629 Aug 11, 2012
hillbillyboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I know what you mean about Kentucky. Thar be beasties up yon way!:)
rabbee: yallz donts zeven nozze, howze tu spill caintuuuky.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#39630 Aug 11, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
You did not answer my question which Lab would have created a millions of tons of Iron, Copper, Gold and Silver and Coal and the Crude Oil.... if it was not already deposited in the earth's crust by our all Knowing and Wise Creator?
And how the machines would have been created in the absence of these metals?
Rack your brains and answer this question.
I already see you and Frijoles and Joel side stepping this question.
Already answered starting with post 39543

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/stamford-ct/T...

Do try and pay attention.

And, since you have finally admitted that your beliefs are NOT based on reason and logic, I thought we were moving on. Try not to slide backwards on your words. I'd hate to see you regress after such a positive step forward.
hillbillyboy

Johnson City, TN

#39631 Aug 11, 2012
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
False.
Christianity has thrown Judaism out. Jesus taught we must observe the Torah, not the paganized pretend christian 'holydays'.
My DNA still says JEW...
The Torah is part of the Christan Holy Book.(What we call the Old Testament, you call the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings)

Christian sermons are taught from it tens of thousands of times every week. Probably the Christians use the Torah far more than the Jews do. People come to understand God through Christian teaching from the Torah.

The Christians have taken the Torah worldwide. Why, you can even take a trip in a rocket ship into outer space, and out there bouncing around in the void, are radio waves going plumb back to the 1920s, with Southern Baptist preachers pounding out the fire and brimstone message of Christianity...straight out of the Torah.

Like this...

..."For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains"...Deuteronomy 32:22

And most Protestant Christians are fundamentalist, which means that we believe that every single word of the Torah is the absolute and perfect, completely Holy Word of God.

You mention DNA as being what it takes to be a Jew? What about King David? Was not his great grandmother a Gentile (Ruth)?

So, by this, does that mean that King David wasnt entirely a Jew? A partial Jew?

Or, how can you assume to know who my ancestors were 3000 years ago? Can you say with assurance that any Christian dont have at least some Jewish ancestors?

The truth is that Christianity is Judaism, in a way. It is the fulfillment of Old Testament Judaism. BTW, Judaism was always supposed to be open to Gentiles. That is why Solomons Temple had a "Court of the Gentiles" (Outer Court) so that they could worship too.

One branch of Judaism accepted the Messiah and then accepted more Gentiles into the faith. The other branch didnt accept either.

We do find common ground with the pagan things of the Catholic Church,though. As a Protestant (Baptist) youll find no much of that stuff allowed in my home. BTW, today is Yom Shabbat (Sabbath), so I will try to recognize that today. I have work in the garden to do, but I will put that off for another day and hope that God blesses me for doing it.

BTW, I have a question for you. What is the meaning of Genesis 18:1? The word used in the Hebrew scripture is Adonai, never and angel or a human. We all know that always means the God of Israel.

So, what does it mean?
SeasideSoon

Hoschton, GA

#39639 Aug 11, 2012
hillbillyboy wrote:
<quoted text>
The Torah is part of the Christan Holy Book.(What we call the Old Testament, you call the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings)
Christian sermons are taught from it tens of thousands of times every week. Probably the Christians use the Torah far more than the Jews do. People come to understand God through Christian teaching from the Torah.
The Christians have taken the Torah worldwide. Why, you can even take a trip in a rocket ship into outer space, and out there bouncing around in the void, are radio waves going plumb back to the 1920s, with Southern Baptist preachers pounding out the fire and brimstone message of Christianity...straight out of the Torah.
Like this...
..."For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains"...Deuteronomy 32:22
And most Protestant Christians are fundamentalist, which means that we believe that every single word of the Torah is the absolute and perfect, completely Holy Word of God.
You mention DNA as being what it takes to be a Jew? What about King David? Was not his great grandmother a Gentile (Ruth)?
So, by this, does that mean that King David wasnt entirely a Jew? A partial Jew?
Or, how can you assume to know who my ancestors were 3000 years ago? Can you say with assurance that any Christian dont have at least some Jewish ancestors?
The truth is that Christianity is Judaism, in a way. It is the fulfillment of Old Testament Judaism. BTW, Judaism was always supposed to be open to Gentiles. That is why Solomons Temple had a "Court of the Gentiles" (Outer Court) so that they could worship too.
One branch of Judaism accepted the Messiah and then accepted more Gentiles into the faith. The other branch didnt accept either.
We do find common ground with the pagan things of the Catholic Church,though. As a Protestant (Baptist) youll find no much of that stuff allowed in my home. BTW, today is Yom Shabbat (Sabbath), so I will try to recognize that today. I have work in the garden to do, but I will put that off for another day and hope that God blesses me for doing it.
BTW, I have a question for you. What is the meaning of Genesis 18:1? The word used in the Hebrew scripture is Adonai, never and angel or a human. We all know that always means the God of Israel.
So, what does it mean?
The word "adonai" is not in the original Hebrew in Genesis 18:1.
hillbillyboy

Johnson City, TN

#39641 Aug 11, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>The word "adonai" is not in the original Hebrew in Genesis 18:1.
Some Jews today use a translation which uses the word "HaShem" in Genesis 18:1. HaShem is simply a term that means "The Name", which is also a reference to YHWH.

I know of no surviving, original Paleo-Hebrew text of Genesis (bere-syt) that predate the Babylonian captivity. The Dead Sea scrolls do contain some fragments of Genesis, but as far as I know, not 18:1.

But we do know that Christianity was founded by...Jews.

It was simply a branch of Judaism. Some of the earliest fathers of Christianity were very highly educated members of the Jewish religious sects, such as Paul.

These fellows knew the Jewish scriptures front and back, inside and out.

Besides, a missing of the point in all of this is the question: What makes a person a Jew? Is it DNA, or faith?

Herod, Ahab, and Saul were Jewish by DNA. But David and Abraham were men who believed God. Was DNA alone what was acceptable to God? Did Herod, Ahab, and Saul go to Heaven just by DNA?

No.

Ruth (a gentile) was accepted, while Ahab (a Jew) was rejected. What does this all mean?

Paul reminded us that Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him as righteousness. He taught...

..."What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."...Romans 4:3

And Paul was simply teaching from Bere-syt (Genesis) in teaching that...

..."Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness."...Genesis 15:6

So, who is a Jew?

The answer is anybody that has the faith of Abraham. If someone believes God, then they are a Jew. That is what I get from the Jewish and Christian scriptural teachings.

What say you?
hillbillyboy

Johnson City, TN

#39643 Aug 11, 2012
God wrote:
<quoted text>
I am Jewish. I happen to have tried Christianity. I have not forsaken my own heritage.I thought the Christians were very nice, but annoying.
How does one "try" Christianity?

Im not trying to be disrespectful here, honest Im not.

But I have heard some people say similar things, such as "Ive done the Christianity thing and didnt like it", and so on.

What do these folks mean, they have done the "Christianity thing"?

Does that mean they went to Church a few times, watched the "Veggie tales" a few times, and maybe went to a Christmas dinner? Maybe even got baptized?

These are just empty rituals if the true faith isnt there.

If the true, deep down belief is not there, then they were never really Christians to start with.

This is puzzling to me, a Christian. That is because true Christianity is a belief, and nothing more.

The faith of Abraham wasnt based on empty rituals. It was simply believing God.

The rituals came later on in Abrahams life, but only as a witness to the real faith he had in his heart toward God.

How does someone "try" that and decide they didnt like it?
SeasideSoon

Hoschton, GA

#39644 Aug 11, 2012
hillbillyboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Some Jews today use a translation which uses the word "HaShem" in Genesis 18:1. HaShem is simply a term that means "The Name", which is also a reference to YHWH.
I know of no surviving, original Paleo-Hebrew text of Genesis (bere-syt) that predate the Babylonian captivity. The Dead Sea scrolls do contain some fragments of Genesis, but as far as I know, not 18:1.
But we do know that Christianity was founded by...Jews.
It was simply a branch of Judaism. Some of the earliest fathers of Christianity were very highly educated members of the Jewish religious sects, such as Paul.
These fellows knew the Jewish scriptures front and back, inside and out.
Besides, a missing of the point in all of this is the question: What makes a person a Jew? Is it DNA, or faith?
Herod, Ahab, and Saul were Jewish by DNA. But David and Abraham were men who believed God. Was DNA alone what was acceptable to God? Did Herod, Ahab, and Saul go to Heaven just by DNA?
No.
Ruth (a gentile) was accepted, while Ahab (a Jew) was rejected. What does this all mean?
Paul reminded us that Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him as righteousness. He taught...
..."What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."...Romans 4:3
And Paul was simply teaching from Bere-syt (Genesis) in teaching that...
..."Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness."...Genesis 15:6
So, who is a Jew?
The answer is anybody that has the faith of Abraham. If someone believes God, then they are a Jew. That is what I get from the Jewish and Christian scriptural teachings.
What say you?
As it is said, Rome didn't convert to Christianity, Christianity converted to Rome.

There is scholarly research about Paul that doesn't believe Paul was a Jew, but possibly a late convert in order to marry the daughter of a priest. Being rejected, he turned his back on Judaism and developed a new religion palatable to the Greeks and Romans who liked virgin/mangod dying scenarios. There are several examples of him using the Hebrew scriptures out of context to present a bodily form of God.

A Jew, then and now, is one who follows the Torah without exception and reservations, according to the teachings of their leaders. Christianity has its own set of 'rabbis' who have developed a different teaching from the original Judaism of the followers of Jesus. Since none of his followers actually wrote any of the works attributed to them, they would be quite surprised at the Trinity idea voted upon in 325CE.

About Abraham, doesn't your quote usually state that Abraham had faith and...? Actually God spoke to Abraham, therefore faith has little to do with it. Faith is acceptance without knowledge. The less knowledge one has, the more faith is needed to sustain the myths of the NT.
SeasideSoon

Hoschton, GA

#39645 Aug 11, 2012
forgot to add the Abraham's righteousness was based on his own personal choices and actions in obeying God's commandments. Those that choose to disobey and make wrong choices, without repentance and returning to the proper path, to them faith is worthless. Christianity is based on faith alone, without knowledge and without actions, aka once-saved always-saved, etc. Paul did this.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#39646 Aug 11, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
forgot to add the Abraham's righteousness was based on his own personal choices and actions in obeying God's commandments. Those that choose to disobey and make wrong choices, without repentance and returning to the proper path, to them faith is worthless. Christianity is based on faith alone, without knowledge and without actions, aka once-saved always-saved, etc. Paul did this.
rabbee: nah! don't believe that. Avraham's actions of righteousnes, is based on TheWay, G-D is telling HisStory to happen here in TheTorah. as a result of, HisAttitude torard G-D.

every physical move i make, every physical breath i take is commanded by G-D. the way i think about it, is not directly commanded by G-D. free will to think about it, is not a physical happening.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#39647 Aug 11, 2012
if you mentally worship and idol. the you are commanded to do, the actions expected for that particular idol.

so if you are mentally worshiping or even saying the fake name jesus. then you are worshiping, the deciever of your grandmother again here in TheTorah. for if you think my name is jesus, then you are a liar for the more subtle beast of the fields too.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#39648 Aug 11, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
You did not answer my question which Lab would have created a millions of tons of Iron, Copper, Gold and Silver and Coal and the Crude Oil.... if it was not already deposited in the earth's crust by our all Knowing and Wise Creator?
And how the machines would have been created in the absence of these metals?
Rack your brains and answer this question.
I already see you and Frijoles and Joel side stepping this question.
rabbee: cannot agree with your attempt to seduce others with a lie. sinc i know for a fact, all the Iron, Copper, Gold and Silver and Coal and the Crude Oil in all of totality. adds up to more than millions, billions, or trillions of tons. there is most likely more gold alone, than you could fit in a ball the size of our entire solar system.
hillbillyboy

Johnson City, TN

#39649 Aug 11, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>As it is said, Rome didn't convert to Christianity, Christianity converted to Rome.
There is scholarly research about Paul that doesn't believe Paul was a Jew, but possibly a late convert in order to marry the daughter of a priest. Being rejected, he turned his back on Judaism and developed a new religion palatable to the Greeks and Romans who liked virgin/mangod dying scenarios. There are several examples of him using the Hebrew scriptures out of context to present a bodily form of God.
A Jew, then and now, is one who follows the Torah without exception and reservations, according to the teachings of their leaders. Christianity has its own set of 'rabbis' who have developed a different teaching from the original Judaism of the followers of Jesus. Since none of his followers actually wrote any of the works attributed to them, they would be quite surprised at the Trinity idea voted upon in 325CE.
About Abraham, doesn't your quote usually state that Abraham had faith and...? Actually God spoke to Abraham, therefore faith has little to do with it. Faith is acceptance without knowledge. The less knowledge one has, the more faith is needed to sustain the myths of the NT.
We both agree that pagan things have crept into the RC Church. That is why there was a protestant reformation, after all.

But, the purer form of Christianity never really went away. It was always there, such as with Iona and the Old Celtic Church, the Lollards, etc.

Seems that The paganisms that crept into the Roman Catholic Church are usually what Jews like to look at today, and ignore the rest of Christianity. That is a mistake, and has been since the reformation.

As to Paul, he identifies himself as a Jew, from the tribe of Benjamin.

As to God coming in a bodily manifestation in the OT, we need look no further than the Hebrew scriptures themselves to see this demonstrated. Lets look to some scriptures from the Old Testament, that have clear teachings of God in bodily manifestations...

..."And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden."...Genesis 3:8

God was physically walking around on Earth there. Is that to say that God had vacated His throne in Heaven? If not, then it is a trinitarian doctrine. There is no other logical way to resolve this matter.

We have also mentioned Genesis 18:1. How about this one...

..."And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so."...Joshua 5:13-15

Jesus was always very exact and specific in every thing that He said, and every word was carefully chosen.(This is true of all of Gods words).

Notice the use of the phrase "am I now come"? This would be to differentiate between Jesus in this manifestation as the commander of Gods army, and Jesus the Messiah manifestation which would be "cut off", as in the Daniel prophesy.

Also note how Joshua was told to remove his sandals, for he was standing on Holy ground. Moses was told the same thing in front of the burning bush, when he was in the presence of God. Angels never, ever, demanded worship for themselves.

And then there is Melchizedek, who gave Abraham bread and wine (Christian Sacrement)...

The Old Testament then starts to bring in the Messianic prophesies shortly afterward. All roads lead to Jesus from there.

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