2 killed, 1 state trooper injured dur...

2 killed, 1 state trooper injured during Luzerne chase

There are 47 comments on the The Morning Call story from May 21, 2007, titled 2 killed, 1 state trooper injured during Luzerne chase. In it, The Morning Call reports that:

A high-speed car chase ended in a fiery head-on crash in which two men died and a state trooper was seriously injured, police said.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Morning Call.

“Quit whining.......”

Since: Jun 07

Philadelphia, PA

#22 Jun 11, 2007
Drifter wrote:
A friend was working in his front yard very early that sunday morning. He lives on rt 29.
He heard a car approaching, and said the speed of the vehicle caught his attention before he saw it. It sounded like it was traveling very, very fast.
It was. The state police car went by his house, at what he estimated to be over a hundred miles an hour.
a few minutes later, he said he heard the sirens from the fire trucks and other emergency vehicles at the crash site.
He did not hear the crash, as the site is about 2 miles from his house.
Moral of the story?
Don't try to outrun the police.
Moral #2:
If you are a police officer reasponding to an incident, drive in control.
Thats what I got out of the story.
From what I read in the story, the offender crossed over the line (while passing another car)and struck the Trooper head-on. I don't think the Trooper lost control.

“Quit whining.......”

Since: Jun 07

Philadelphia, PA

#23 Jun 11, 2007
Johns cousin from mo wrote:
<quoted text> So if I am reading this right. My cousin died because he went thru a accident scene before he was waved thru??? And this was such a criminal act that it had to receive a high speed chase??? I believe one of the officers at the original accident should have caught some lic# and issued a ticket at a later date. This is a tragic end to something so miniscule as skirting around a accident instead of waiting for a wave thru.
Your cousin was in the wrong...end-of-story. DO NOT read more into it or attempt to place blame on the police. There is enough of that going around already.

“Quit whining.......”

Since: Jun 07

Philadelphia, PA

#24 Jun 11, 2007
As far as you saying "was this such a criminal act", for all the Troopers knew, there was a REASON for him to speed around the accident scene. He could have just killed someone, or beat the sh** out of some poor lady and stole her car.I am sure he did not say to the other guy "Hey watch this, see if they chase me".
comment

Korea

#25 Jun 11, 2007
doindawash,

I agree. I too am not in for high speed chases, unless commission of an F1 crime. There are radios, etc., photography equipment in police cars, etc. to utilize other means to identify "suspects".

There is too much risk to others involved, not only police, buy also the general public. What went from being a summary offense for traffic violation, turned into two death sentences,(by the suspects own choice), but nonetheless, it is a complete shame for what could have been a traffic violation.

“Quit whining.......”

Since: Jun 07

Philadelphia, PA

#26 Jun 11, 2007
comment wrote:
doindawash,
I agree. I too am not in for high speed chases, unless commission of an F1 crime. There are radios, etc., photography equipment in police cars, etc. to utilize other means to identify "suspects".
There is too much risk to others involved, not only police, buy also the general public. What went from being a summary offense for traffic violation, turned into two death sentences,(by the suspects own choice), but nonetheless, it is a complete shame for what could have been a traffic violation.
How were the Trooper's to know it was only a "summary" violation that he committed? Only the stupid try to run through an accident scene. There had to be more behind it. The Trooper's probably thought he did commit a major crime, considering he acted so foolish.
comment

Korea

#27 Jun 11, 2007
crimefighter,

This is exactly why there are policies and procedures for engaging and disengaging from chases. This is why technology is in the police cruisers to run registration plates.

It is not an office job to "probably think", but in fact to witness a crime, respond to a complaint, or have probable cause to detain someone and do a "live scan."

The officer only had a traffic violation for vehicle pulling a "U" turn across a divided (double-line) road, and alledgedly striking another vehicle in the process, hence then possible fleeing an accident scene.

I don't disagree with you that these young people were suspect in the commission of a crime and that police have every responsiblility to engage them.

What I disagree is the value of escalating an engagement to a high speed chase which ultimately put the police officer in physical harm, the alleged suspects, and ultimately the general public on the roads.

There has to be clear review of what is appropriate level of response. In my eyes, unless it is for a known F1 criminal, or the commission of an F1 crime, there is very little value for putting the rest of us at risk or the law enforcement public officials we hire.

Record the licensce, call ahead, keep a distance pursuit if you have to, there are other methods of catching criminals than high pursuit chases.

“Quit whining.......”

Since: Jun 07

Philadelphia, PA

#28 Jun 12, 2007
comment wrote:
crimefighter,
This is exactly why there are policies and procedures for engaging and disengaging from chases. This is why technology is in the police cruisers to run registration plates.
It is not an office job to "probably think", but in fact to witness a crime, respond to a complaint, or have probable cause to detain someone and do a "live scan."
The officer only had a traffic violation for vehicle pulling a "U" turn across a divided (double-line) road, and alledgedly striking another vehicle in the process, hence then possible fleeing an accident scene.
I don't disagree with you that these young people were suspect in the commission of a crime and that police have every responsiblility to engage them.
What I disagree is the value of escalating an engagement to a high speed chase which ultimately put the police officer in physical harm, the alleged suspects, and ultimately the general public on the roads.
There has to be clear review of what is appropriate level of response. In my eyes, unless it is for a known F1 criminal, or the commission of an F1 crime, there is very little value for putting the rest of us at risk or the law enforcement public officials we hire.
Record the licensce, call ahead, keep a distance pursuit if you have to, there are other methods of catching criminals than high pursuit chases.
I agree with some of your post, but diagree with the majority of it. You do not have to tell me the policies and procedures, I think I know what they are. I do believe that more will come out about this story, and clear some things up. I do not place any blame on what the Trooper's did. They had followed their policies, and had every right to try to stop this vehicle and ascertain why the subjects were fleeing.

Since: Apr 07

Coaldale, PA

#29 Jun 12, 2007
fact #1.
NOTHING will come out of this "story".
There was no assasinaion attempt on the president that morning, there were a coupla goof-balls who were not stopping for a police vehicle with its lights and sirens on.
The cops had NO idea what or who these people were, yet this cop drove like the fate of the free world was in the balance.
If they veered ito the cops lane, like the cops said,(eye rolling emoticon would fit nicely here) then they veered into the cops lane.
But do you wanna tell me, that the cop going mach 4, didn't MAYBE cross ito THEIR lane first, which caused THEM to veer into HIS lane, and then he veered back, where the colision occured!?!? Highly plausible, at the rate the cop was traveling.
Fact #2.
The cop was traveling at an extremely high rate of speed. The cops can probably pull gps records, if someone forces them to.
No one probably will, because, as usual, the cops are always right, especially when they crash and burn.

They certainly had every right to stop this vehicle, I just don't think they should have done it with a Ford Missle.
They HAVE methods for stopping vehicles, y'know. Maybe, just maybe, the cop who was attempting to set new land speed records getting into the chase, should have instead deployed some devices to incapacitate the suspects vehicle.
2 people are dead because he didn't, and if you're alright with those results, then the rest of this crap is all moot.

"....they had followed their policies...."

How the HELL do you know that!?!? Don't tell me you believe them because they're cops!?!?!?

I have 2 words to dispel that philosophy.

David Lupas.
The chief "cop" in Luzerne county (soon to be a frickin judge) is like Beuford T. Justice, or Roscoe P. Coltrain, at best.
And the dopes of Luzerne county will most certainly elect him to be their newest, next-est Judge.
You can't make stuff up this stupid folks, you really can't.
comment

Korea

#30 Jun 12, 2007
Crimefighter,
I tend to only think you know what they are since no department has to reveal these policies and procedures to the public. Hence, you could only know the complete policies and procedures of Pennsylvania State Police, if you were a State Trooper. "Crimefighter" could mean you are a State Constable or neighborhood citizen group activist.

Let us leave the thinking up to the attorneys and judges and not police. These are learned men of legal theory who wrote and truly understand law.
In this case, while I think it was inappropriate and a lapse in professional judgement, I do not believe the State Trooper violated any statutes.

Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes
THE VEHICLE CODE (TITLE 75)
PART V. ADMINISTRATION AND ENFORCEMENT.
CHAPTER 63. ENFORCEMENT
§ 6341. Definitions.
§ 6342. Written policies required.
§ 6343. Pursuit records.
§ 6344. Pennsylvania State Police report.
§ 6345. Liability.

§ 6342. Written policies required.
(a) General rule.--EACH police department shall develop and implement a written emergency vehicle response policy governing the procedures under which a police officer should initiate, continue and terminate a motor vehicle pursuit. This policy MAY be the model policy endorsed by a national or state organization or association of police chiefs or police officers. The written policy shall incorporate the guidelines under this section.
(b) Intent of guidelines.--The guidelines under this section are solely intended to direct police departments to maintain pursuit policies and outline the content of those pursuit policies. The guidelines contained in this section are NOT INTENDED TO MANDATE THE ACTIONS OF INDIVIDUAL POLICE OFFICERS during any particular pursuit.
(c) Policy guidelines.--Each police department policy shall include, but not be limited to, the following procedural elements:
1. Decision making criteria or principles for initiation of pursuit. These criteria or principles may include, but not be limited to:
i. The potential for harm or immediate or potential danger to others if the fleeing individual or individuals escape.
ii. The SERIOUSNESS OF THE OFFENSE COMMITTED or believed to have been committed by the individual or individuals attempting to flee.
iii. Safety factors that pose a RISK TO POLICE OFFICES, other MOTORISTS, and other persons.
2. Responsibilities of the pursuing officers.
3. Responsibilities for the communications center.
4. Responsibilities of the field supervisor.
5. Traffic regulations during pursuit, including, but not limited to, the use of emergency equipment, audio signals and visual signals.
6. Pursuit tactics.
7. Roadblock usage.
8. Communication and coordination of pursuit protocol for interjurisdictional pursuit.
9. Decision making criteria or principles for termination of pursuit.
These criteria or principles may include, but not be limited to, safety factors that pose a risk to police officers, other motorists, pedestrians and other persons.
(d) Biennial certification.--The commission shall certify every other year whether each department has a pursuit policy in force. The commission shall provide to the Pennsylvania State Police a list of those municipal police departments that have and have not notified or certified to the commission that that department has a pursuit policy. The biennial certification may be implemented simultaneously with other certifications conducted by the commission.
(e) Policy confidential.--A policy adopted under this section shall be confidential and SHALL NOT BE MADE AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
(f) Limitations.--No police departmental policy may violate or supersede the requirements of section 3105 (relating to drivers of emergency vehicles).

“Quit whining.......”

Since: Jun 07

Philadelphia, PA

#31 Jun 13, 2007
comment wrote:
Crimefighter,
I tend to only think you know what they are since no department has to reveal these policies and procedures to the public. Hence, you could only know the complete policies and procedures of Pennsylvania State Police, if you were a State Trooper. "Crimefighter" could mean you are a State Constable or neighborhood citizen group activist.
Let us leave the thinking up to the attorneys and judges and not police. These are learned men of legal theory who wrote and truly understand law.
In this case, while I think it was inappropriate and a lapse in professional judgement, I do not believe the State Trooper violated any statutes.
Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes
THE VEHICLE CODE (TITLE 75)
PART V. ADMINISTRATION AND ENFORCEMENT.
CHAPTER 63. ENFORCEMENT
§ 6341. Definitions.
§ 6342. Written policies required.
§ 6343. Pursuit records.
§ 6344. Pennsylvania State Police report.
§ 6345. Liability.
§ 6342. Written policies required.
(a) General rule.--EACH police department shall develop and implement a written emergency vehicle response policy governing the procedures under which a police officer should initiate, continue and terminate a motor vehicle pursuit. This policy MAY be the model policy endorsed by a national or state organization or association of police chiefs or police officers. The written policy shall incorporate the guidelines under this section.
(b) Intent of guidelines.--The guidelines under this section are solely intended to direct police departments to maintain pursuit policies and outline the content of those pursuit policies. The guidelines contained in this section are NOT INTENDED TO MANDATE THE ACTIONS OF INDIVIDUAL POLICE OFFICERS during any particular pursuit.
(c) Policy guidelines.--Each police department policy shall include, but not be limited to, the following procedural elements:
1. Decision making criteria or principles for initiation of pursuit. These criteria or principles may include, but not be limited to:
i. The potential for harm or immediate or potential danger to others if the fleeing individual or individuals escape.
ii. The SERIOUSNESS OF THE OFFENSE COMMITTED or believed to have been committed by the individual or individuals attempting to flee.
iii. Safety factors that pose a RISK TO POLICE OFFICES, other MOTORISTS, and other persons.
2. Responsibilities of the pursuing officers.
3. Responsibilities for the communications center.
4. Responsibilities of the field supervisor.
5. Traffic regulations during pursuit, including, but not limited to, the use of emergency equipment, audio signals and visual signals.
6. Pursuit tactics.
7. Roadblock usage.
8. Communication and coordination of pursuit protocol for interjurisdictional pursuit.
9. Decision making criteria or principles for termination of pursuit.
These criteria or principles may include, but not be limited to, safety factors that pose a risk to police officers, other motorists, pedestrians and other persons.
(d) Biennial certification.--The commission shall certify every other year whether each department has a pursuit policy in force. The commission shall provide to the Pennsylvania State Police a list of those municipal police departments that have and have not notified or certified to the commission that that department has a pursuit policy. The biennial certification may be implemented simultaneously with other certifications conducted by the commission.
(e) Policy confidential.--A policy adopted under this section shall be confidential and SHALL NOT BE MADE AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
(f) Limitations.--No police departmental policy may violate or supersede the requirements of section 3105 (relating to drivers of emergency vehicles).
Like I said....there is no need to tell me........you wasted your time cutting and pasting. I have read that section NUMEROUS times in the last 16 yrs. Be original and submit your own material.
comment

Korea

#32 Jun 14, 2007
Reread the comment "Crimefighter", I think your reading comprehension skills are lacking, as I introduce my position statement prior to providing documentation.

You are a file clerk in the courthouse, not a learned professional.

“Quit whining.......”

Since: Jun 07

Philadelphia, PA

#33 Jun 14, 2007
comment wrote:
Reread the comment "Crimefighter", I think your reading comprehension skills are lacking, as I introduce my position statement prior to providing documentation.
You are a file clerk in the courthouse, not a learned professional.
Ya, you know me. Well you don't know sh*t about me...file clerk? You could have thought of something better than that. I have been "beating the streets" for 16 yrs. When was the last time you "beat the streets", you are probably not even a cop. You are just one of the MANY wanna-be's on here.
comment

Korea

#34 Jun 17, 2007
I earned my law degree after college which was funded with my enlistment as a Force Recon Marine. I did more high level danger duty than you will ever see sitting in the comforts of an air conditioned cruiser patroling the likes of North Wales or Upper Merion.

What are you a high school graduate who found a junior cop position with some small borough in Montgomery County?

If you had any real guts, you yourself would work in Philadelphia or Allentown.

If you had any real brains, you would be someone prosecuting the law, not driving patrol.

It is obvious from your introduction of a sentence by "Ya" and use of profane language in debate that you lack credibility.

I have better things to do with the skill sets that I have achieved through education and service to my nation and community, luckily for me, I chose one that is more rewarding and higher paying than being a police officer.

Have a good day "file clerk" and see MCCC for remedial language arts coursework.

“Quit whining.......”

Since: Jun 07

Philadelphia, PA

#35 Jun 18, 2007
comment wrote:
I earned my law degree after college which was funded with my enlistment as a Force Recon Marine. I did more high level danger duty than you will ever see sitting in the comforts of an air conditioned cruiser patroling the likes of North Wales or Upper Merion.
What are you a high school graduate who found a junior cop position with some small borough in Montgomery County?
If you had any real guts, you yourself would work in Philadelphia or Allentown.
If you had any real brains, you would be someone prosecuting the law, not driving patrol.
It is obvious from your introduction of a sentence by "Ya" and use of profane language in debate that you lack credibility.
I have better things to do with the skill sets that I have achieved through education and service to my nation and community, luckily for me, I chose one that is more rewarding and higher paying than being a police officer.
Have a good day "file clerk" and see MCCC for remedial language arts coursework.
You don't really expect me to believe all this do you?
becca

AOL

#36 Jun 19, 2007
mathew was only a kid.he didnt mean to do that my god my friend died because of the cop.why cant cops mind there own buiseness.they would still be living if it wasnt for the cop

“Quit whining.......”

Since: Jun 07

Philadelphia, PA

#37 Jun 19, 2007
He didn't mean to do it...such an idiotic comment. Regardless of if he "meant" to do it..he did it and he paid with his life. It was not the cops fault. Matthew should have not caused such a tragic accident, be acting so immature.
retired newark pd

Nazareth, PA

#38 Jun 19, 2007
crimefighter wrote:
He didn't mean to do it...such an idiotic comment. Regardless of if he "meant" to do it..he did it and he paid with his life. It was not the cops fault. Matthew should have not caused such a tragic accident, be acting so immature.
I agree with you son. The unfortunate allentown police officer also did the same thing. how do you feel about that situation.
drifter

Dickson City, PA

#39 Jun 22, 2007
"didn't mean to do it", may in fact be an idiotic comment, but it's also maybe true.
Its also true, that it IS the cops fault that he is dead.
The cop did NOT have to drive mach 6 towards the fleeing vehicle.
Like I said, NOTHING will come out of this story.
At best, the gods will deal with this cop, if in fact he ever recovers. That means, that things have a way of working themselves out, over time. Eventually, you get whats coming to you.
I feel equally bad for the dead people's families, and for the cops. Both parties were to blame.
Cops are not to be given an automatic pass, just because they're cops. We have bazillions of instances where cops have been proven to be bigger dirtbags than the dirtbags they pursue.

both parties were guilty.
No one deserved to die here. Let that be a lesson to all you kiddies out there.

You might get dead.

“Quit whining.......”

Since: Jun 07

Philadelphia, PA

#40 Jun 22, 2007
drifter wrote:
"didn't mean to do it", may in fact be an idiotic comment, but it's also maybe true.
Its also true, that it IS the cops fault that he is dead.
The cop did NOT have to drive mach 6 towards the fleeing vehicle.
Like I said, NOTHING will come out of this story.
At best, the gods will deal with this cop, if in fact he ever recovers. That means, that things have a way of working themselves out, over time. Eventually, you get whats coming to you.
I feel equally bad for the dead people's families, and for the cops. Both parties were to blame.
Cops are not to be given an automatic pass, just because they're cops. We have bazillions of instances where cops have been proven to be bigger dirtbags than the dirtbags they pursue.
both parties were guilty.
No one deserved to die here. Let that be a lesson to all you kiddies out there.
You might get dead.
BUT...the kids crossed over and hit the Trooper head-on. The trooper never left his lane of travel...so..it can't be his fault.
ryan

East Greenville, PA

#41 Jun 23, 2007
comment wrote:
Crimefighter,
I tend to only think you know what they are since no department has to reveal these policies and procedures to the public. Hence, you could only know the complete policies and procedures of Pennsylvania State Police, if you were a State Trooper. "Crimefighter" could mean you are a State Constable or neighborhood citizen group activist.
Let us leave the thinking up to the attorneys and judges and not police. These are learned men of legal theory who wrote and truly understand law.
In this case, while I think it was inappropriate and a lapse in professional judgement, I do not believe the State Trooper violated any statutes.
Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes
THE VEHICLE CODE (TITLE 75)
PART V. ADMINISTRATION AND ENFORCEMENT.
CHAPTER 63. ENFORCEMENT
§ 6341. Definitions.
§ 6342. Written policies required.
§ 6343. Pursuit records.
§ 6344. Pennsylvania State Police report.
§ 6345. Liability.
§ 6342. Written policies required.
(a) General rule.--EACH police department shall develop and implement a written emergency vehicle response policy governing the procedures under which a police officer should initiate, continue and terminate a motor vehicle pursuit. This policy MAY be the model policy endorsed by a national or state organization or association of police chiefs or police officers. The written policy shall incorporate the guidelines under this section.
(b) Intent of guidelines.--The guidelines under this section are solely intended to direct police departments to maintain pursuit policies and outline the content of those pursuit policies. The guidelines contained in this section are NOT INTENDED TO MANDATE THE ACTIONS OF INDIVIDUAL POLICE OFFICERS during any particular pursuit.
(c) Policy guidelines.--Each police department policy shall include, but not be limited to, the following procedural elements:
1. Decision making criteria or principles for initiation of pursuit. These criteria or principles may include, but not be limited to:
i. The potential for harm or immediate or potential danger to others if the fleeing individual or individuals escape.
ii. The SERIOUSNESS OF THE OFFENSE COMMITTED or believed to have been committed by the individual or individuals attempting to flee.
iii. Safety factors that pose a RISK TO POLICE OFFICES, other MOTORISTS, and other persons.
2. Responsibilities of the pursuing officers.
3. Responsibilities for the communications center.
4. Responsibilities of the field supervisor.
5. Traffic regulations during pursuit, including, but not limited to, the use of emergency equipment, audio signals and visual signals.
6. Pursuit tactics.
7. Roadblock usage.
8. Communication and coordination of pursuit protocol for interjurisdictional pursuit.
9. Decision making criteria or principles for termination of pursuit.
These criteria or principles may include, but not be limited to, safety factors that pose a risk to police officers, other motorists, pedestrians and other persons.
(d) Biennial certification.--The commission shall certify every other year whether each department has a pursuit policy in force. The commission shall provide to the Pennsylvania State Police a list of those municipal police departments that have and have not notified or certified to the commission that that department has a pursuit policy. The biennial certification may be implemented simultaneously with other certifications conducted by the commission.
(e) Policy confidential.--A policy adopted under this section shall be confidential and SHALL NOT BE MADE AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
(f) Limitations.--No police departmental policy may violate or supersede the requirements of section 3105 (relating to drivers of emergency vehicles).
dont waste your time on this,wannabe cop,crimefighter is really a jerk who thinks he knows everything. He is not a real COP!

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