You've met snake handlers?MOST of the snake handlers I ever met were the farthest thing from Holy Roller you could get. This preacher was simply making a living with a snake show, just like his father before him. Had nothing to do with religion.
Now, why would you be a real Pentecostal and do snake tricks? The two practices are incompatible. If you are doing the speaking in tongues part the snake will take its shot and you'll be dead.
The thing about COTFB (or as some here call it COFB) is it has rules ~ not just interesting quotes out of the Bible.
My research into the history of this church tells me that the prohibition on doctors arose as a result of failure of doctors 2 or 3 centuries ago to "cure' certain illnesses endemic among the Sa'ami ~ which are not diseases, just dietary problems.
Best eat your meat and set the potatoes aside for the hawgs eh! And likker? Don't drink it ~ not even beer ~ it's got barley malt in it and that's full of wheat gluten. Root crops like carrots and the like are OK, with caution. The incidence of diabetes is just mind numbingly high so unless you have some spare insulin around keep the starch and sugars down.
Research the gluten free materials on the net. Probably most COTFB folks need to know that.
DId notice the COTFB Folks in Northern Sweden have a sex disparity ~ 3 guys to 2 gals, and sometimes 2 guys to 1 gal ~ in the general population. Since COTFB rules are so strict outmarriage is not usually possible so the only way to fix that problem is serial polygamy.
#270 Jun 9, 2012
#271 Jun 10, 2012
Yup ~ you can't avoid them in Indianapolis. When the coal fields failed (that is, got mechanized and required many fewer men to work the mines) millions moved North.
It was our fate to have Eastern Kentucky snake handlers move into the neighborhood, as well as the Harris family famous for being BLUE. Their skin is literally blue. The problem is cured easily through the administration of I believe copper nitrate.
But yes, we had snake handlers, and I had to go to school with them. None of them were Pentecostals ~ more like Methodists who took rattle snakes and copperheads to church.
The kids would tell us all about what the grownups did with the snakes.
#272 Jun 10, 2012
One more thing on snake handlers, they do this in Iraq and India.
Where I presently live we found out early we had a snake dealer in the area who was selling poisonous snakes to folks in West Virginia and elsewhere in Fairfax County.
So, we had American, Iraqi AND Indian snake handlers around.
His snakes got loose. Pretty dangerous around the area for a while since some of them were black mambas.
You don't want any of these people living anywhere near you. BTW, they are much more private and anti-social than any COFB folks I've ever run into, although some of the COFB are certainly cold ~ that reformed Apostolic Old Lutheran Church (Laestidian) crowd are definitely anti-social ~ even with their relatives in other congregations.
(1) Do COFB children learn to walk early.
(2) Do COFB members find they see in the dark rather better than other people.
(3) Do COFB members find mutton too wretched to eat.
(4) Is twinning unusual among COFB members.
(5) Do you usually work outdoors without gloves in the winter?
(6) Do you know any COFB member/relatives who have experienced drowning for more than 10 minutes only to revive later?
(7) The color red ~ is it easy to see?
(8) The color yellow ~ is it close to white (as you perceive it)?
(9) Anyone around know if they may have a condition called Indeterminant Scandinavian porphyria? if so, have they ever been treated with heme?
#273 Jun 11, 2012
Constance, thanks for your efforts. I came upon all this by accident ~ and through family genealogical research ~ there were missing centuries.
Now we're down to just a few hundred years here and there between 245AD and 2012, so that's not bad.
The COFB is just one part of the picture ~ but it's very important. i kept running into different parts of the COFB and my ancestor's involvement, and a lot of it didn't make sense, but once we got the names lined up with the dates, and locations, we realized that COFB has been around a very long time, is actually scattered across the world ~ not just the Midwest ~ and seems to have some coherency where the leaders (elders?) maintain communication and continuity of theological interpretations.
So, the secret society thought to exist behind the Catholics actually does exist inside the COFB ~ but to what avail?
Certainly not anything dedicated to the greater glory of God. My dad said living with a COFB'er is not good. He said if he was on the roof and his father told him, "here, jump off, I'll catch you" he knew he wouldn't. He'd actually act in accordance with his beliefs that you can just pray over and lay hands on the injured so they'd be healed ~ and that meant he'd let you jump off the roof and fall to the ground. Only time he'd break the holy vows (cynically said) was if you broke a bone he'd take you to a doctor then.
But that was a killing bunch as I've noted elsewhere.
I think if there's nothing else we can do it's to get these people to quit tempting God and go ahead to see the doctor!
And quit killing the kids!
#274 Jun 12, 2012
I agree with the latter part, about COFB'ers fatalistic Calvinist doctrine being whacko. However, I will never believe they descended in apostolic succession from the early church as some claim... Just because they adopted the name Church of the First Born from the pages of the bible doesn't mean it's fact, anymore than the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and/or speaking in tongues means they're COFB and "favored children".
Lots of Pentecostals and others do that, but still have their nuts and bolts screwed on in the right order,(or, at least some of them do). I've spoken at length with Christians that have come out of the most radical COFB family lines. You wouldn't believe some of the horror stories and the way these radical sects twist scripture in an evil way, and then claim to be "holy". The devil has them by the throat and they don't even know it.
Cathy Capedeville's bleeding death here in Cushing, while COFB stood by, is a case in point but actually mild in comparison to some of the heinous spiritual crimes they commit. It's staggering. People can say this bunch isn't a cult but by all definitions they most certainly are when they practice the sorts of aberrant and wicked doctrines they do. I seriously doubt that Christians can even rightly call them brethren. There are scriptures against that.
#275 Jul 5, 2012
2001 04 09.1
"This morning I had a dream. The scenes in it were like watching a movie on a big screen. I watched as a man kidnapped a woman. She was deceived to go into this helicopter. Then she was tied up in a chair and was unconscious. She did not realize she was being deceived or that she was being kidnapped.
Someone was then sent to rescue her. I could see him in the helicopter and he just stands there as she regains consciousness. At this point she realizes she was deceived and has been kidnapped. The kidnapper is not aware that she is conscious. She is suddenly loosed from the chair and is now outside the helicopter.
The kidnapper now realizes what has happened and runs after her. I see, at this point, that she still has handcuffs holding her hands behind her. The kidnapper catches up to her, and a man also shows up.
This man pulls a gun and wants to know what is going on. The kidnapper claims he is a police officer and she is his prisoner. She claims she has been kidnapped and that this man should be arrested. Neither one has any type of identification on them.
The man is clearly very wise. He takes them both aside to check on their stories before deciding who is telling the truth.
Then I wake up and the Lord says this:
This is the ways it is with false ministries. One claims to be true and the other false, but the other one claims the reverse; each telling a believable story. Until you investigate carefully the fruits of the ministry, comparing them with scripture, you cannot know which one is true and which one is false. Both carefully walk their walk, one in truth seeking the things of God, and the other carefully cloaking it to look like truth. And they can be very deceptive in the false ministry area.
Be very careful when looking at any ministry. Many of My ministries, saith the Lord, still function in a less than perfect condition. Because they are now being revealed as to what they are to do, many of them are coming out of a religious based system in which they had been carried away with error.
Many others are satanicly based and they have a cloak of goodness upon them; and are
there to deceive."
#276 Jul 5, 2012
Mary Fallin just signed a bill that will prosecute if a childs medical needs are endangered. COFB members are looking forward to going underground, they want to be martyrs, and they avoid "worldly people, worldly knowledge". The COFB is a cult of the worst kind, they are more widespread than most are aware, they are dangerous and sow discord amongst Christians and themselves. They are very sick in the head! Their doctrine is so deeply brainwashed into ones physche it is devastating to themselves and society. Stay focused people, they are a serious threat to a peaceful humane, co-existing society..it feels like Iraq, when we are around them.. not far from strapping bombs on their own children to blow up other little children. They are hateful, and show no mercy, and they come off like they are devine, they tear up over stupid crap, but they are haters. Sadly, they are deceived, but think YOU are! Hold them responsible for their crimes!
#277 Jul 6, 2012
Hmm, unaware of claims to apostolic succession, but that is consistent with their having started as a Russian Orthodox mission in the 1500s.
The Skolt Sa'ami in Finland and Russia are almost all Russian Orthodox. The Old Apostolic Lutherans in Sweden and Finland are mostly members of the Northern and Inari Sa'ami tribes.
The First Borners in America are obviously from the first group off the boats in the 1600s, and maybe some came with the whaling ships in the 1700s. Sa'ami can work in Antarctic waters without dying in 2 minutes ~ they've got hours.
None of this goes back 2000 years but it does go back about 500 years, which is quite a way back.
The University of Maryland has a major study going on Coeliac Disease ~ which isn't a disease but rather a normal condition where your body can't eat wheat, barley or rye. They might like to STUDY some of today's members to see if they have this problem.
#278 Jul 6, 2012
They can only go underground so far. When they start burying dead bodies, then it's really going to get messy, because children are reported by schools and neighbors as missing when they don't show up playing, or in public. Then parents could be charged with the crime of murder, because of hiding the death of a baby or child.
It's insanity, the lengths these people will go to in their attempt to follow false doctrine. And it IS false doctrine, because there isn't an ounce of the Love and Compassion of Jesus Christ in the doctrine they force on their own children. Instead they worship their cruel doctrines more than loving God or their babies. They don't need to come on here and lecture me about "how much they "loved" those babies and kids they LET DIE. If I hear that again, I do believe I will call them a liar to their faces. Hypocrites.
#279 Jul 23, 2012
Maybe they haven't figured out what Jesus meant when he said this:
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
#280 Aug 8, 2012
I have been reading a book by Irene Spencer, a member of the Fundementalist of Ladder Day Saints. She has written that her husbands brother Ervil LeBaron was a leader of the Church of the Firstborn. He was evil in their eyes, he killed people due to "blood atonement" They also, practiced poligamy. Does this Church in Cushing use the same practices?
#281 Aug 8, 2012
Ervil LeBaron is a special case ~ this is where a Mormon apostate has gone back through their Doctrines and Covenants and picked up the name Church of the First Born and the behavior of the Gadiantan Warriors discussed in the Book of Mormon.
Joseph Smith himself appears to have been a member of a Church of the First Born congregation that used hallucinogenic cactus ~ hence his "visions". That's what he is discussing when he mentions COFB. LeBaron isn't ~ even though the source is COFB.
There are SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) groups with links into the Mormon movement, and they'll use COFB as well. That's what David Koresh was referring to. He was SDA, not COFB, and he had a grandmother/great grandmother named Hollob ~ see my name? That's an anagram of it right there ~ same crowd, but they sometimes need to hide their identities.
Bill Clinton's mother and father (his baby daddy, not his adoptive father) were members of a COFB near Hope Arkansas. She became a nurse and left that church. Went away to her relatives who were traveling circus fortune tellers (probably real live Russian gypsies).
A COFB congregation in Oregon at Christmas Valley has been recruiting new members throughout the circus and carnival crowd all over the country.
COFB is the model for all the offshoots ~ and they have political connections (as just about everyone has found out who has had to deal with this kiddie death rate problem).
#282 Aug 8, 2012
Interested ~ polygamy. Numerous COFB congregations practice serial polygamy ~ where they are married to only one other person at the same time. Bill Clinton's parents were both married 5 times.
Keeping my eye on the Palin's ~ his daddy did the 5 times thing, and he owned a cabin next door to a COFB church in the Kenai.
Brown County Indiana had numerous COFB families into polygamy.
I think it is to overcome something called Indeterminant Infertility. Charles Darwin (the famous one) had this problem in his family ~ all his ancestors were from the Hebrides Islands off the Scottish coast ~ they have a lot in common with the Sa'ami
Half your kids are infertile but some are if matched with the right person ~ hence, serial polygamy as a solution.
#283 Aug 8, 2012
The COFB of the forum have no relationship to Ervil LeBaron or the Mormons. There never was a cactus ingesting COFB, nor were they gypsies or carnies doing recruiting. I wish we did have a few political connections but are quite lacking in that, evidenced by the fact that we are often prosecuted for political ends. You have a very fertile imagination. You ought to write fictions. You really should not disseminate false witness against a Church you have no real relationship with, it is a violation of one of the ten commandments!
#284 Sep 10, 2012
Possibly for the first time, I will have to agree with you on something Russell :)
#285 Sep 10, 2012
And this is where you and I agree. I find some of your writings interesting, but others a bit off topic. And like Russell was saying,(Jesus bless him), The COFB'ers are not part of the polygamous Mormon cult. They have their own peculiarities.
#286 Sep 16, 2012
from constance ~ And this is where you and I agree. I find some of your writings interesting, but others a bit off topic. And like Russell was saying,(Jesus bless him), The COFB'ers are not part of the polygamous Mormon cult. They have their own peculiarities.
There's a great deal more diversity among COFB than the folks in East Central Oklahoma might imagine. This is a very old movement with origins in the 1500s along the coast of the Arctic ocean in what are now Norway, Finland and Russia.
A couple of Russian Orthodox priests went there to Christianize the Sa'ami and were only partly successful.
Well over two centuries later the Evangelical Lutheran Church sought to revive the COFB and made substantial efforts ~ imagining they'd brought them into full conformance with Christian orthodoxy.
I"m guessing none of you have ever met any of those guys ~ they make rules for their congregations like the Old Order Amish and the Elders enforce them.
Very strict bunch ~ very anti-social. A few tens of thousands of them have managed to create dozens of distinct denominations.
But, back to that older group in Scandinavia. The Orthodox priests had a practical problem ~ there is no wine, nor is there bread in the Arctic. People live on fish from the ocean, reindeer, and the inner bark of birch trees (It's high in sugar).
However, they have access to a mildly hallucinogenic mushroom called amanita muscaria. The priests began using it as a substitute for the wine and the host.
That custom was brought to America in the early 1600s. Unfortunately for them the mushroom doesn't have the kick here it does in the old world ~ something in the soil. So, they used a substitute provided by the Indians.
You may not have met any of these guys in your whole life, but I have. They're out there. A good number of them live right on Indian reservations. Even Bill Clinton got into this with that bill that ended up allowing indians to use peyote ~ it let COFB on/near those reservations to use it as well, so the custom continues.
REGARDING COFB POLYGAMY:
The COFB in Indiana were and are into serial polygamy. So are those in Arkansas. You might check your own genealogies to see how many of your ancestors were married as many as 5 times ~ might amaze you ~ maybe not.
My own GGGrandfather brought a lot of people West to Oklahoma. He had a close relative (Brother or cousin ~ hard to tell) who was married 24 times. He was also a COFB preacher in Oklahoma ~
They don't keep more than one spouse at a time though. Rather set them apart from other polygamists!
#287 Sep 21, 2012
Well, Bohall, you certainly manage to come up with intriguing information about the COFB, which leaves me wondering just what your sources are. Mind sharing? Russell clearly doesn't agree with your take on the COFB using hallucinigens or them being gypsies or carnies. That sounds rather out of character for Midwestern COFB'ers. More like Irish travelers actually.
Another thing, where did you arrive at your conclusions about the Clintons? Also, the COFB having political connections?
#288 Aug 17, 2013
It's not a judgment of yr church that i was part of from being born till age of 13.These ppl are not attacking yr religion they are attacking to yr ill informed ways of reading the bible,it's not literal and everyone can read that book and see or feel something different.You ppl are not the deciders of who live in die under yr church if you knew anything you wouldn't be on here responding to ppl that felt the pain i did as,ignorant!You would be doing the work of God,Right?I watched my beautiful n very respected Grandmother die from breast cancer was there thru the whole process until yr scrapping and removing chunks of cancer outta yr loved ones maybe it would be best to do something better with yr time han run down ppl that have they're own opinions,believe it or not we all can have one even if you didn't inform us of what it's supposed to be.You have no right if i'm right isn't that God's place to jusde the ignorant.The messiah complex the ppl have in this church is so utterly disturbing to me,that i still have nightmares after leaving this pseudo church,cult long ago.I can still smell the cancer that was lingering in yr MeMe's house while she rot to death,with ppl coming over with theyre cakes and pies,lack of compassion.When they go home to they're loved homes after they grace us with 5 minutes of prayer and go home.We're still left trying to alliveate pain from my dying Grandma with no medicationns cause she had been brainwashed like so many others to actually believe she wasn't allowed to go to the DR.Could you also tell me why you can go to the dentist and optometrist but not an MD??That's alway's got the best of my confusion but guess what COTFB your not the only ones and ppl will not continue to follow yr virus of a church,yr church killed my MeMe who was a mother to me as well for sometime and for that you have ruined me on religion and i dare you take that from me.I reclaimed it and where i can now at least respect ppl that have churches for ppl that just wanna be uplifted and feel blessed,not told what to do and shamed for not doing what they are allowed to do?Also hope you know by now you are not the only church going to heaven they all are even those nasty hari krishnas you despise so.That's the only religion that even makes sense to me at this a point but point is i don't need a church to survive and yr destroying so many kids lives and i'm sure the big boys n charge that get they're dinners served first cuz you are to be treated with more respect,shame on you for telling our young women that,it's not the truth and you twist it up and just brainwash ppl day in and out.I don't even know how you can sleep at nite after the bs you tell these poor ppl only wanting to belong to something and have some faith cuz they're life sucks and you mislead tham and manipulate scripture to control them,seriously shame on you.For those still stuck in this you can be happy,even an entire city (Hobart) disowns you except one special Aunt that loves me no matter who i am or what i belive in cuz she has heart something you and yr higher up members"BTW NOT A COMPLIIMENT obviously lack.PPl take a stand they are holding you down you can be happy and on yr own terms you don't need them to tell you how to live yr life use yr own common sense that's exactly what they don't want you to do or they're church would shrink dramatically,which i could only hope to my higher power will happen till there's no longer one brick of any of the church of the first born cults anymore.Btw responding with hate only shows you know lil to nothing bout the bible for all those that may say i'm ignorant and i'll not respond to those things it's below my level srry.Just curious how many of yr members just died from God knows what while i was typing this note?I'm sure it's catastrophic,very dark.So shamefiul,hope some of yall wake up one day,i know you good ole elders won't but i know yr game and i'm not the only one,yr not fooling anyone except yr local recruits
#289 Sep 10, 2013
Lindsey, I am truly sorry over the loss of your Grandmother and the terrible way she died, under the influence of the COFB. I hope you'll come to realize that what they did is not Jesus fault. It's tragic that he often gets the blame for what people do. Fact is, that the abusive and cult like behavior of COFB and others like it, are more indicative of Satan getting in the door in sheep's clothing. This has turned so many people away from God it's not even funny, but isn't that what the devil wants? You mentioned reading the bible. I urge all to read it, and pray for wisdom, discernment and TRUTH daily! Then they will see that Jesus was NOTHING like the COFB and it's abusive doctrines. http://spiritualabusesanctuary.wordpress.com/...
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