EPA: Dissolved solids exceed limits in Monongahela River

The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection says total dissolved solids in the Monongahela River in western Pennsylvania again exceed legal limits.

[Old Cynic]

And the fines will fix the problem? There must be fines, PEDEP sure don't know how to fix things, more government, less results.

[Krakus]

Old Cynic wrote:

And the fines will fix the problem? There must be fines, PEDEP sure don't know how to fix things, more government, less results.

If the fines were steep enough, yes. The government's role is to adjust market costs to reflect the values of the society in which an economy operates. For all the touting of market efficiency, the right wing-nuts forget that the market is completely amoral in it's operation (and this is the "values" party?). Greed is the fundamental operating principal of capitalism, as so famously proclaimed by the protagonist of the film "Wall Street."

[Old Cynic]

Krakus wrote:

<quoted text>
If the fines were steep enough, yes. The government's role is to adjust market costs to reflect the values of the society in which an economy operates. For all the touting of market efficiency, the right wing-nuts forget that the market is completely amoral in it's operation (and this is the "values" party?). Greed is the fundamental operating principal of capitalism, as so famously proclaimed by the protagonist of the film "Wall Street."

Greed and capitalism have nothing to do with a small community or two trying to provide safe clean drinking water to it's citizens. Government's role is to stay out of the market. PADEP is one of those organizations that take readings, levy fines, and actually do nothing. What would they do if the water systems involved would simply shut their valves, and turn to PADEP for help? PADEP could not help! I actually advocate this action, it would call out a politician or two and highlight a regulator or two. PADEP is a classic case of government "mission creep". If they had the resources to "help" it would be different, but, they have nothing to offer, only regulation and it's hard to suffer regulation after regulation without any positive assistance. The worst offenders of this type of "offense" are the larger government entities and they are, for some reason, immune to the "fines". ALSOSAN and the Pittsburgh Water Authority come to mind.

[Krakus]

Old Cynic wrote:

<quoted text>
Greed and capitalism have nothing to do with a small community or two trying to provide safe clean drinking water to it's citizens. Government's role is to stay out of the market. PADEP is one of those organizations that take readings, levy fines, and actually do nothing. What would they do if the water systems involved would simply shut their valves, and turn to PADEP for help? PADEP could not help! I actually advocate this action, it would call out a politician or two and highlight a regulator or two. PADEP is a classic case of government "mission creep". If they had the resources to "help" it would be different, but, they have nothing to offer, only regulation and it's hard to suffer regulation after regulation without any positive assistance. The worst offenders of this type of "offense" are the larger government entities and they are, for some reason, immune to the "fines". ALSOSAN and the Pittsburgh Water Authority come to mind.

What ever are you talking about, old man? Did you read the source article for this thread? What "small community or two?" And how is it possible for a small comunity or two to provide safe drinking water drawn from a river or a large aquifer? It simply isn't! Such small community water systems are the prime victims of such polution for pity's sake! And since when can "a small community or two" control the quality of a water in a watershed that extends significantly beyond their borders, and is particularly difficult if they're downstream of thew polluter!

[Old Cynic]

Krakus wrote:

<quoted text>
What ever are you talking about, old man? Did you read the source article for this thread? What "small community or two?" And how is it possible for a small comunity or two to provide safe drinking water drawn from a river or a large aquifer? It simply isn't! Such small community water systems are the prime victims of such polution for pity's sake! And since when can "a small community or two" control the quality of a water in a watershed that extends significantly beyond their borders, and is particularly difficult if they're downstream of thew polluter!

You make my point. PADEP does nothing. They monitor, fine people and not much else. They have no answers, they don't come in to the communities and help, they point out your failures and fine, fine, fine. They are the classic case of, "Howdy, I'm from the government and I'm here to help". The strange part is that most of their fines are administrative and involve reports and reporting dates that they have created and there's no way that that can help anything. More government. less common sense.

[Krakus]

Old Cynic wrote:

<quoted text>
You make my point. PADEP does nothing. They monitor, fine people and not much else. They have no answers, they don't come in to the communities and help, they point out your failures and fine, fine, fine. They are the classic case of, "Howdy, I'm from the government and I'm here to help". The strange part is that most of their fines are administrative and involve reports and reporting dates that they have created and there's no way that that can help anything. More government. less common sense.

Not so, old man. The DEP does precisely what your own philosophy of government would dictate. The don't try to run the polluters' businesses, or tell them what to produce or how to do so; instead, they utilize the free market forces you have so often touted. Rather than impinge on the free choice of the businessman (or polluter, in this situation), they simply adjust the cost structure to better reflect the true costs the polluter imposes on society, including that "small community or two" trying to provide clean water to their residents.

You need to be more consistent in your thinking, friend.