cheyenne

Troy, MI

#1752 Aug 13, 2011
While we are talking about loose ends, isn't Michigan highway M14 (where the state police found Shirley Robison's luggage tag in the glovebox of a parked car sitting on the side of the road) somewhat near the Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti area where John Norman Collins brutally killed those co-eds?
AK Wilks wrote:
Sort of but not really. I think the car with the luggage tag was found near ROMEO, MI, which is 72 miles from the main Collins stalking grounds in Ann Arbor. Romeo is only 34 miles from Lathrup Village, MI, and 50 miles from the New Hudson Airport. Romeo is in Macomb County, which is mostly suburbs and rual areas north of Detroit. It is just a few miles east of Oakland County.
No. I just looked it up. The car with Shirley's luggage tag was found in the John Norman Collins area of Ann Arbor on M-14, months AFTER Joe Scolaro died. Shirley's luggage tag was found in the Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti area near where the bodies of the dead co-eds were found.

(Forget about Romeo, Romeo is totally inconsequential. It is irrelevant that the police officer just happened to punch his time cards at the Romeo police station).

According to Mardi Link's book, page 110, the luggage tag was in a blue Chevy with Ohio license tags, sitting on the side of the road on M-14.

----------
According to Wikipedia, M-14 runs through the area of where the 6 victims of John Norman Collins were found.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-14_%28Michigan...

"M-14 is a 22.54-mile (36.27 km) east–west state trunkline highway in the southeastern portion of the US state of Michigan. Entirely freeway, it connects Ann Arbor with Detroit by way of connecting with I-96."

----------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_murders
The John Norman Collins Michigan Murders were a series of highly publicized killings in the Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti area of Southeastern Michigan between 1967 and 1969 that terrified Washtenaw County for over two years.
AK Wilks

Grandville, MI

#1753 Aug 13, 2011
Well I don't know why a state trooper from the Romeo post would be in Ann Arbor, but I suppose its possible. Does anyone have a cite as to where the car was found? What city?

Collins was indeed a killer, and based in Michiagn, though proven a killer only of young women. I would not rule him out for the Robison Murders but I don't see much yet to rule him in either. Also he was caught in 1969, several years before this luggage tag was found in the car.

If you go to the links I gave you will see the evidence showing Ted Kaczynski could be Zodiac, and the evidence showing a possible Zodiac link to the Robison Family Murders. William T Rasmussen, author of "Corroborating Evidence III", does NOT think it likely Ted Kaczynski was Zodiac, but in his book he presents evidence why Zodiac should be considered a suspect in the murders of Valerie Percy (Chicago suburbs, Illinois, 9/18/66) and the Robison Family (Northern Michigan, 6/25/68).
Bruce

Plano, TX

#1754 Aug 14, 2011
Has any one of these theories shown just HOW these highly improbable "killers" could possibly have found Summerset and what MOTIVES they might have had?
MOTIVE is critical in determining WHO killed WHOM and it is impossible to show not only MOTIVE for Collins, whose victims were all young women on their periods, but Zodiac!?! who had WHAT possible motive or involvement in the life of Dick Robison?
Mardi Link's book is STILL the most conclusive based on LOGIC and COMMON SENSE. Most of these theories lack BOTH. Are you reading this, cheyenne?
cheyenne

Troy, MI

#1755 Aug 14, 2011
Bruce wrote:
1. Has any one of these theories shown just HOW these highly IMPROBABLE "killers" could possibly have found Summerset and what MOTIVES they might have had?

2.
MOTIVE is critical in determining WHO killed WHOM and it is impossible to show not only MOTIVE for Collins,

3. whose victims were all young women on their PERIODS,

4. Mardi Link's book is STILL the most conclusive based on LOGIC and COMMON SENSE. Most of these theories lack BOTH. Are you reading this, cheyenne?
1. If you want to talk about LOW PROBABILITIES and far out coincidences, then it is MOST unlikely for Michigan in 1968 to have "2" highly brutal psychopathic murderers committing multiple murders. For your information, it was very rare indeed, almost unheard of to find someone in 1968 who commits multiple murders. Anybody back in 1968 who brutally murdered 6 people was so unusual, so rare, so IMPROBABLE, that such a crime(s) was national news(even Charlie Manson's Helter Skelter in California was played by the Michigan news media).

2. MOTIVE? After more careful examination, Joe Scolaro had NO MOTIVE. AS I pointed out earlier, Joe Scolaro had no motive for committing a brutal murder of the entire Robison family. Joe did not even have a motive for quietly killing Dick Robison alone in Detroit to make it look like a common mugging robbery. Dick was not wealthy, Joe after being in charge of the entire company knew full well that Impressario was a money losing business with fictional non-existent clients, Dick's advertising business also was not really worth very much. Plus, Dick Robison's shady dealings and sexual escapades left Dick in no position to go to the police about anything.

3. Shirley Robison was in her PERIOD. Shirley Robison was MENSTRUATING and wearing a sanitary napkin. Moreover, eerily similar to the Collins murders, there were stabbing thru Shirley's sanitary napkin. What the heck? Your observation about murder victims in their periods is arguing that Collins is the murderer, there is no iota at all to try connect Joe Scolaro with killing women on their periods. You are grabbing for straws.

4. Bruce, were you listening back in 1968? In the entire country of the United States in 1968 there was Manson, Zodiac, and Collins who committed brutal mass murders. Adding Joe Scolaro to that very short list is very ILLOGICAL, NONSENSICAL, and a poor fit. I just dont see Joe Scolaro in the same way as A Manson or Collins. COMMON SENSE should tell anyone that the petty non-violent white collar crimes, such as those alleged committed by businessman Joe Scolaro, virtually never result in brutal horrific mass murders of 6 family members. Aw, come on now, use some COMMON SENSE, Joe Scolaro is no Charlie Manson!
cheyenne

Troy, MI

#1756 Aug 14, 2011
AK Wilks wrote:
1. Well I don't know why a state trooper from the Romeo post would be in Ann Arbor,

2. Does anyone have a cite as to where the car was found? What city?
AK Wilks,

1. The mundane clerical duty task of the routine inspection of all unclaimed towed cars in Michigan applying for a "Salvage Title" would most likely be assigned to a non-essential trooper who was the least busy of any other trooper in Michigan. Have you ever been to the farming community of Romeo/Armada? A trooper working out of the Romeo State Police post probably has less to do than any other trooper. The homebase of the state trooper who was assigned to check out salvage titles that day is irrelevant. Who cares if the state trooper was from Gaylord or Marquette or Romeo?)

The relevant important points about Shirley's luggage tag, is how and why it was placed in an Ohio car sitting on the side of the road in the Ann Arbor/Ypslanti/Collins/co-ed area, long AFTER Joe Scolaro had died, and who put it there.

We can be 100% assured that most certainly it was NOT!!! the deceased zombie of Joe Scolaro who left Shirley's luggage tag in the glove box of that car sitting on the shoulder of the M-14 in Ann Arbor.

2. The car was found on M-14. M-14 is only 22 miles long. Ann Arbor is the principle city on M-14. Any car, or any luggage tag, that is on M-14 - is by definition in the John Norman Collins stalking area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-14_%28Michigan ...

"M-14 is a 22.54-mile highway ......... it connects Ann Arbor with Detroit by way of connecting with I-96."
Bruce

Sunnyvale, TX

#1757 Aug 14, 2011
cheyenne wrote:
<quoted text>
1. If you want to talk about LOW PROBABILITIES and far out coincidences, then it is MOST unlikely for Michigan in 1968 to have "2" highly brutal psychopathic murderers committing multiple murders. For your information, it was very rare indeed, almost unheard of to find someone in 1968 who commits multiple murders. Anybody back in 1968 who brutally murdered 6 people was so unusual, so rare, so IMPROBABLE, that such a crime(s) was national news(even Charlie Manson's Helter Skelter in California was played by the Michigan news media).
2. MOTIVE? After more careful examination, Joe Scolaro had NO MOTIVE. AS I pointed out earlier, Joe Scolaro had no motive for committing a brutal murder of the entire Robison family. Joe did not even have a motive for quietly killing Dick Robison alone in Detroit to make it look like a common mugging robbery. Dick was not wealthy, Joe after being in charge of the entire company knew full well that Impressario was a money losing business with fictional non-existent clients, Dick's advertising business also was not really worth very much. Plus, Dick Robison's shady dealings and sexual escapades left Dick in no position to go to the police about anything.
3. Shirley Robison was in her PERIOD. Shirley Robison was MENSTRUATING and wearing a sanitary napkin. Moreover, eerily similar to the Collins murders, there were stabbing thru Shirley's sanitary napkin. What the heck? Your observation about murder victims in their periods is arguing that Collins is the murderer, there is no iota at all to try connect Joe Scolaro with killing women on their periods. You are grabbing for straws.
4. Bruce, were you listening back in 1968? In the entire country of the United States in 1968 there was Manson, Zodiac, and Collins who committed brutal mass murders. Adding Joe Scolaro to that very short list is very ILLOGICAL, NONSENSICAL, and a poor fit. I just dont see Joe Scolaro in the same way as A Manson or Collins. COMMON SENSE should tell anyone that the petty non-violent white collar crimes, such as those alleged committed by businessman Joe Scolaro, virtually never result in brutal horrific mass murders of 6 family members. Aw, come on now, use some COMMON SENSE, Joe Scolaro is no Charlie Manson!
cheyenne: your fantasies are becoming book-length! Please put them in novel form so we can all enjoy a good escape from reality, but remember you are crowding out the responses of others with your VOLUMINOUS assault on COMMON SENSE and LOGIC. I personally can't waste any more time on this website as long as you continue to fly in the face of reality. BON VOYAGE to all those who read this forum!
cheyenne

Troy, MI

#1758 Aug 14, 2011
Bruce wrote:
<quoted text>
cheyenne: your fantasies are becoming book-length! Please put them in novel form so we can all enjoy a good escape from reality, but remember you are crowding out the responses of others with your VOLUMINOUS assault on COMMON SENSE and LOGIC. I personally can't waste any more time on this website as long as you continue to fly in the face of reality. BON VOYAGE to all those who read this forum!
Since your comments have no content, add nothing to our investigation, and most of your comments are mostly just distracting off topic personal attacks against other posters, no great loss. Bye Bye!

Now that you are gone, I hope the rest of us will be able to objectively discuss all aspects of the case at hand - without distracting irrelevant petty personal comments.
AK Wilks

Grandville, MI

#1759 Aug 14, 2011
The book is called "Corroborating Evidence III" by William T. Rasmussen. In the book he discusses the Black Dahila case, and an unrelated seperate theory that the murder of college girl Valerie Percy in the Chicago suburbs on September 18, 1966 may be the work of the Zodiac Killer, who probably killed college girl Cheri Jo Bates on October 30, 1966.

He also discusses the murders of the wealthy ROBISON FAMILY on JUNE 25, 1968 in GOOD HART, EMMET COUNTY, MICHIGAN, at their summer cottage. Killed were Mr. and Mrs Robison, their 7 year old daughter Suzie and their three sons. Remember the attacker in the Percy case was seen by Mrs. Percy and fled after killing Valerie - his intent and plan may have been to kill the entire family. The Robison case has definite similarities to the Percy case. This Robison case also has many similarities to the murders of the Monsanto Chemical Company employee Mr. Bricca and his family in Ohio on September 25/27, 1966 and the murder of computer expert and State Education official Dr. Sims and his family murder in Florida on October 22, 1966. And perhaps also some similarities to the murder of Hughes aerospace employee Mr. Boles and his family in California on August 13, 1965, that Morf and others have looked at.

But here is what is very interesting.

The Detroit News had a secret witness program to get information on the case.

In August 1968 someone sent in a tip that said they had information on the case but in order to get it law enforcement had to place an ad in the personals classified. This is what the ad said - apparently the exact words required by the anonymous tipster:

DR. GUIDINI: Your prescription good.
However, need additional.
-Zodius
----------

ZODIUS?
Remember this is 4 months before the Jensen/Faraday murder, and exactly a year before the killer called himself "Zodiac" in the letter of August 4, 1969.

ZODIUS
ZODIAC

The words share 4 of 6 letters.

The Latin term for Zodiac, "ZODIACUS", has the most similarity to the term used by the Detroit News tipster, "ZODIUS".

I had never paid much attention to this case, because the police said it was more or less closed, as they thought that Mr. Robison's business partner, suspect of embezzlement, killed the family. Others have questioned how he could have been seen by witnesses in Detroit and made it in time to go to Good Hart to do the killings. The police said he may have hired a hitman.

But Rasmussen raises a new theory. He mentions reports that Mr. Robison, an opera fan and publisher of an arts and entertainment magazine called Impresario, was contacted by a mysterious possible investor named "Mr. Roeberts" or "Mr. Roberts", interested in the project of Mr. Robison to create "computerized warehouse operations and cultural support centers" at an airport in rural Oakland County, Michigan, and then at or near airports all over the country. There is a reported possible meeting in SAN FRANCISCO on June 4 - 7, 1968 between future victim Mr. Robison and the mysterious Mr. Roeberts, and another meeting in Detroit on June 13/14, 1968. The next meeting was scheduled for June 25, 1968, the day the family was killed. The strange Mr. Roeberts was reported to have a "monotone voice" with "frequent pauses". Sounds similar to the description of the voice of Zodiac.
AK Wilks

Grandville, MI

#1760 Aug 14, 2011
The murders were horrible. The killer shot through a window with a .22 automatic to kill Mr. and Mrs. Robison and 7 year old Suzie. The killer then entered the home and shot the three boys. He then took a "carpenters hammer" and smashed the heads of the two females, Mrs. Robison and Suzie. HE THEN PLACED THE BODY OF ONE OF THE SONS ON TOP OF MR. ROBISON.

This is very rare and is similar to the possible Zodiac crime of Domingos and Edwards, were the body of Linda Edwards was placed on top of Domingos. He then placed the body of Suzie next to her brother. He then pulled down the undergarments of Mrs. Robison and stabbed her seven times through her sanitary napkin. Both Valerie Percy and Linda Edwards had clothes lifted to expose them. FINALLY HE COVERED MRS. ROBISON WITH A BLANKET. Domingos and Edwards, and several EAR/ONS victims, were covered with a blanket, clothes or towels.

It appears the person pretending to be "Mr. Roeberts" lived in the San Francisco area in the summer of 1968, because that is where Mr. Robison flew to meet him. Ted Kaczynski was a professor at U Cal Berkeley in the summer of 1968, and lived in the SF Bay Area. Ted had spent 5 years living in the state of Michigan while attending the University of Michigan.

Could this crime be related to the 1966 Percy Murder and the "FAMILY MURDERS OF 1965 AND 1966" - BOLES, BRICCA and SIMS?
Boles, Percy, Bricca, Sims all have ties to high tech companies and/or computers. Mr. Robison was seeking investors for a new company involving computerized operations. MR. ROBISON WAS PLANNING A HUGE EXPANSION AND DEVELOPMENT PROJECT AT AND NEAR AN AIRPORT IN OAKLAND COUNTY, MICHIGAN, THAT NO DOUBT WOULD HAVE REMOVED MANY TREES AND NATURAL AREAS FOR A LARGE COMPUTERIZED WAREHOUSE WITH A CULTURAL CENTER. HE ALSO PLANNED TO EXPAND THIS TO AIRPORTS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.

Ted Kaczynski hated airlines, airplanes and jet travel. He targeted airline officials and planes as the UNABOMBER (UNiveristy Airline BOMber).

In the 1960's high tech was a small but growing field, and computers were new and just getting started. But each one of the fathers in these horrible murder cases - Boles, Percy, Bricca, Sims, Robison - had ties to high tech companies and/or computers. Ted Kaczynski hated computers and thought they would lead to the literal enslavement of mankind. He wrote in his journal that he wanted to kill "big businessmen", "scientists", "government officials" and "bigshots", along with "rowdy college students", women and couples.

Could this crime possibly be related to the ZODIAC case? here he have a tip perhaps with inside knowledge of the crime coming from a ZODIUS.

Zodiac suspect Ted Kaczynski had a family home in Illinois and had lived in Michigan for almost 5 years, between 1962 and 1966/part of 1967. He liked to go to wilderness areas to camp, hunt and hike.

Police reports say it was a .22 LR fired from a weapon with six lands and grooves with a right hand twist. Same as Santa Barbara 1963 Domingos/Edwards murder and Zodiac Lake Herman Road 12/20/68. I understand many weapons fit that, but still it is interesting. Weapon was thought to be an AR -7 rifle or .22 automatic maybe JC Higgins. There were also shell casings from a .25 automatic pistol.

Ted Kaczynski owned a .22 rifle and pistol, and a Raven .25 automatic pistol.

John Douglas said his study showed posing of bodies happened in about 1% of murder cases. Both SB 63 and this case have posing, including placing one body atop another. Both also have blanket placed over a body, and stripping of female clothes.

Mrs. Robison had her dress lifted, Valerie Percy had her nightgown lifted and Linda Edwards had her bathing suit top cut off.

On the flip side the business partner Scolaro owned a .22 AR - 7 and a .25 automatic. There is a damning circumstantial case against the partner.
AK Wilks

Grandville, MI

#1761 Aug 14, 2011
Unfortunately a big part of this case involves pictures, documents, maps and code work that I cannot post here. For more on the POSSIBLE Zodiac and/or Ted Kaczynski link to the Robison Murders see

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.p...
Nonnie

Bellevue, MI

#1763 Aug 18, 2011
Oh my goodness the Unibomber and Zodiac. Did they target practice at Joe's father-in-laws?
Rick

United States

#1764 Aug 18, 2011
Nonnie wrote:
Oh my goodness the Unibomber and Zodiac. Did they target practice at Joe's father-in-laws?
Good point, Nonnie! Not to be morbid, but you almost made me laugh out loud.
AK Wilks

Grandville, MI

#1765 Aug 18, 2011
No but Ted and Scolaro both went to Harvard. I have no idea if they knew each other, unlikely as Ted was mostly a loner. Ted did own a .22 that shot rounds like those found at the Robison scene (and two Zodiac scenes) and also owned a .25 Raven pistol.

Apparently someone was stringing wires across roads near the Robsion cabin , which is a documented thing that Ted did, his stated motive being to kill "noisy" motorcycle riders.
Rick

United States

#1766 Aug 19, 2011
AK Wilks wrote:
Apparently someone was stringing wires across roads near the Robsion cabin , which is a documented thing that Ted did, his stated motive being to kill "noisy" motorcycle riders.
That's an interesting point... was it ever resolved if Norman Bliss' motorcycle accident was caused by a wire strung across the road? I know he hit a tree, but I'm not sure it was resolved what caused it -- a wire, or too many beers at Legs Inn.

I remember back in those days, there were stories of local property owners that would sling wires between trees on trails where trespassing snowmobilers would drive across their property... to teach them a lesson.
AK Wilks

Grandville, MI

#1767 Aug 19, 2011
Right, but this was across a road. A person saying they were a cousin of the deceased motorcycle rider says that a car did hit a wire across the road, and they felt that it was a wire that killed his cousin riding the motorcycle. Suspicion was cast upon local people, with no evidence, but it is very interesting that Ted Kaczynski did string wires across rural roads, with the stated goal of killing noisy motorcycle riders and in his mind "protecting" natural woods from spoilers.
Bruce

Sunnyvale, TX

#1768 Aug 20, 2011
AK Wilks wrote:
Right, but this was across a road. A person saying they were a cousin of the deceased motorcycle rider says that a car did hit a wire across the road, and they felt that it was a wire that killed his cousin riding the motorcycle. Suspicion was cast upon local people, with no evidence, but it is very interesting that Ted Kaczynski did string wires across rural roads, with the stated goal of killing noisy motorcycle riders and in his mind "protecting" natural woods from spoilers.
In order to make this a viable theory, don't we need to establish the whereabouts of Ted Kaczynski on the night of Monday, June 24th, 1968, and then establish a link between Joe Scolaro and Ted that would allow Ted to find the almost impossible-to-find Summerset, and then discover a motive for Ted to savagely murder six people? I thought his m.o. was setting bombs with no actual direct violence.
cheyenne

Troy, MI

#1769 Aug 20, 2011
Bruce wrote:
<quoted text>.......... and then establish a link between Joe Scolaro and Ted that would allow Ted to find the almost impossible-to-find Summerset, and then discover a motive for Ted to savagely murder six people?
1. We will never solve this crime as long as people want to insist on linking Joe Scolaro. Joe Scolaro is a total dead end, a red herring, with a dozen loose ends.

2. People who intentionally savagely murder 6 people have their own motive. Whoever did such brutal murders had a specific motive. The motive obviously was not to get rid of Dick Robison. If it was only Dick Robison that the murderer wanted to get rid of, he would have done it quietly in the Detroit area making it look like a common everyday mugging. No. Whoever brutally murdered the entire Robison family had their own motive which required that the entire family die, and that motive is one which nobody has ever tried to find.
AK Wilks

Grandville, MI

#1770 Aug 20, 2011
This theory is ONLY possibly viable IF Ted Kaczynski was the Zodiac. See http://unazod.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php...
Marcy

Harbor Beach, MI

#1771 Aug 20, 2011
At the time did anyone look into Dick Robisons sexual conquests? To my way of thinking, Shirley and Susans urders were overkill......
Marcy

Harbor Beach, MI

#1772 Aug 20, 2011
*murders

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