The tragedy of JonBenet

There are few in this great world of ours that weren't glued to the countless episodes of Hard Copy and Inside Edition during the investigation of the JonBenet Ramsey murder, which occurred sometime during ...

[deb]

Hi - I am from MN too!

Anyway, from my readings, the ransom note was not really a ransom note - it almost all came from movies and it was written in the house. If it was a planned kidnapping, it would not have been written by hand, and it would have been written prior to entering the house in the planning stages. This was someone with a good memory for movie lines with nothing to do while he was waiting.

[justwatching]

I don't think you are right about your suspect. I met him - - he had no motive, no opportunity - - and a great alibi. He wasn't in Colorado that Christmas. he was far away with his own family.

[justwatching]

When the Ramseys released their book, there was a great gathering in Atlanta. Dinner at a nice hotel, we watched the Barbara Walter's interview together, then time spent talking with some of the "lingerers" until time to go out for breakfast.

At that get-together, I met a lot of the people the Ramseys call family and friends. Some spoke very freely.

You have to remember that the crime took place over the Christmas holiday -- these people, along with their family members, recounted first hearing about the crime.

I believe your suspect was in Atlanta when JonBenet was killed, celebrating with his family.

One woman I thought was vicious enough and close enough - Judith Phillips - was also with family celebrating Christmas - and the fact that she was not in Colorado that night saved her a lot of grief.

Personally, I would like to see a lot more done on several "suspects":

* People close to the housekeeper and her family
* unnamed college kids who were in Boulder that night, some NOT able to go home that week, others who were home for the holidays and left the family to meet up with friends that night (but the friends won't say they saw them.)

There are others, but I don't see any reason to go after your suspect. Nomotive, no link to the means, and no opportunity as far as I can tell. If you have evidence that puts him in Colorado thatnight, please share.

[texasbird]

Could I ask where the sale's from this book you are talking about has gone< I myself hope it has in no way gone to the family, and has infact gone into to stop any other child murder victim's. and would I aslo take a min to say that in the uk we don't that I know of have any kind of child buy pagent's, as I myself find it scary that you have little girl's dressing up as young lady's with sometime full hair and make up on, has no one any worrie's that this is like a red rag to anykind of perv's out there, as a mother of a girl, I would myself( and I am just talking for myself) never let my daughter do one of those, and I knowe that you will have lot's of mother's saying that it is their daughter's that want to do it, and I'm sure that is in someway's right but their are also some mother's that are liveing the missed live's that they were never ment to have. and I would like to send out my thought's to all of the family and freind's of this little girl.

[justwatching]

texasbird wrote:

Could I ask where the sale's from this book you are talking about has gone< I myself hope it has in no way gone to the family, and has infact gone into to stop any other child murder victim's. and would I aslo take a min to say that in the uk we don't that I know of have any kind of child buy pagent's, as I myself find it scary that you have little girl's dressing up as young lady's with sometime full hair and make up on, has no one any worrie's that this is like a red rag to anykind of perv's out there, as a mother of a girl, I would myself( and I am just talking for myself) never let my daughter do one of those, and I knowe that you will have lot's of mother's saying that it is their daughter's that want to do it, and I'm sure that is in someway's right but their are also some mother's that are liveing the missed live's that they were never ment to have. and I would like to send out my thought's to all of the family and freind's of this little girl.

They lost their daughter and told their story. They said the profits would go to help children but... I don't know what came of any profit from the book. Never asked and really don't care.

I do know the Ramseys are paid speakers now.

As for throwing barbs at the Ramseys for letting JonBenet join pageants -- a pedophile will go anywhere to get at a child -- kids have been taken from their casinos, parking lots, department stores, their beds. I have never heard of one taken from a pageant or taken because they were in a pageant. I don't think you have reason to criticize them for putting her in pageants (though I never put my own in one.)

[texasbird]

well In no way am I criticizeing them , I like you and other people that post their thought's on this and any other site's, have the right to say what I think, and as a mother I would not myself dress my child up to look like a mini grown up woman, and yes I know that every year more and more children are taken from their home's and of the stree, by those men or even women (again, to my thought's ) should not be able to walk the stree's, and before you or anyone else say it,( I am also aware that, nine time's out of ten ,it is a close family member or freind's or sometime someone that is knowen to the family in some way. It would just worry me as a mother, to have the though that someone that someone would go to theses thing's for no other reason than to get their rock's off, as I said that I don't know of any of these pageant's takeing place over in the uk( I maybe wronge) and as for me throwing anything at these two parent's, I again do not know them, so I will keep my though's to myself some what, but will also say that we have within the last couple of year's over here had a few children taken from the area that I and my family come from, one of them was knowen to my daughter, and I'm am sorry to say they took 7 month's to find her, or should I say what was left of her body, in a woodland's.. and they have never found the monster, that had taken her life. but her parent's instead of doing talk show's ( again this is something that I will freely say I know little about) have gone onto help, in a big way to set up cell phone tracker's , with the help of some wounderfull company's over here, to help parent's keep track of their children at all time's. and I know that this child did not have a cell phone, or was not out, with out her mother or father,( and again I have not ment to upset anyone, as I only know what I like other's read in our press, and only half of that is I think true, so I am sure that they parent's were just as great parent's as I should hope you or I would like to think we are. but I would again ask the quest are they giveing the money they make from speaking to help stop this kind of thing happening again?

[justwatching]

Not all parents of murdered children keep focused on the crime. Some move on. The Ramseys did.

Perhaps they will save some child by speaking to people - who knows?

[justwatching]

texasbird wrote:

I would again ask the quest are they giveing the money they make from speaking to help stop this kind of thing happening again?

As far as i can tell, they are paying their bills. We all have them.

[texasbird]

I wish them luck in their live's, I myself would hate to have any of my children taken from me, so I'm sorry if I have in anyway upset anyone with my post's it was not ment in anyway to do that.

[DEB]

texasbird wrote:

I wish them luck in their live's, I myself would hate to have any of my children taken from me, so I'm sorry if I have in anyway upset anyone with my post's it was not ment in anyway to do that.

I think we have to remember they how the Ramsey's were treated. They were publically accussed by law inforcement & tabloids before ever being tried, before ever reviewing evidence, or interviewing other suspects, and John lost his business. This is why they wrote the book and did interviews.

As far as dressing up little girls, I loved to play dress-up when I was little. And always watched Miss America Pagents and would pretend to be in a contestant. With Patsy and her sister
being in pagents, it was a natural hobby for a little girl who was out-going and talented. An excellent venue for developing talent, poise, confidence, and a future Miss America.

[texasbird]

all of the thing's that you have said I understand, and again I could never even try to understand what they as parent's of a child that has had her life cut short( or any other parent that has had their child taken from them in any way shape or form) I have to health children, so I won't even try to go there. again it is not my wish to upset anyone, but to make my point of veiw knowen, and yes it is normal for little girl's to dress up, but I to have watched some of these pagent's , and I have seen some mother's not all, but some of them put so much stress on their children to win, and in some case's by doing this they can take way the child hood that they should have, because rather than it beening fun, as it should be, the mother can live though that child and sometime forget it is in fact the child that important, not just winning.

[justwatching]

texasbird wrote:

all of the thing's that you have said I understand, and again I could never even try to understand what they as parent's of a child that has had her life cut short( or any other parent that has had their child taken from them in any way shape or form) I have to health children, so I won't even try to go there. again it is not my wish to upset anyone, but to make my point of veiw knowen, and yes it is normal for little girl's to dress up, but I to have watched some of these pagent's , and I have seen some mother's not all, but some of them put so much stress on their children to win, and in some case's by doing this they can take way the child hood that they should have, because rather than it beening fun, as it should be, the mother can live though that child and sometime forget it is in fact the child that important, not just winning.

People who knew the family from the pageants say that the family was NOT just interested in winning. Patsy had helped some of the less.... rich kids ... get nice clothes. She did what she could to make sure JonBenet and others had FUN. It wasn't cut throat for them as it is for some families.

I knowthe TV shows take the worst of the worstto show the demanding, screaching, horrid moms. But not all are like that.

Think of pageants as a sport. Not all parents are willing to break the coach's arms if they don't choose their kids first. Right?

[justwatching]

undrtheradar wrote:

<quoted text>
Meanwhile the real killer is still out there living in Atlanta, Ga avoiding all of the public scrutiny...

In Atlanta? I would think someplace closer to Boulder -- but he may have been a student, graduated and moved far, far away. No saying where he is.

[Little]

Why in the world would anyone fly to Boulder from Atlanta, and run the risk of at the very least life in prison, for such a paltry sum of money? There's not enough money in the world, IMO, to commit such a crime, but this person would have to be some special brand of idiot/pervert/psychotic and sure would not pass under the radar.

If John Ramsey thought this person was responsible for the death of his child, I doubt he would not have proclaimed it from every forum available to him.

If John Ramsey thought this person was a likely suspect it would not have been difficult to prove this person's moves. Assuming you are not a player here, if you know it, then LE would know it. Flight records, even with private planes, are certainly available.

If you "know" who is responsible for JonBenet's death, then go to the authorities and tell them what you "know" to be the facts and evidence, give them your "proof". This case would be wrapped up in days.

[justwatching]

You lost me. I don't know who you are accusing.

I had a suspect who lived in Atlanta - a kid. But john didn't name him.

[justwatching]

I know who you mean. Met him and spoke briefly to him once. He remained a friend to the Ramseys and I know of no reason to suspect him.

On the other hand, you had a convicted pedophile who used to get his meals and mail at St Thomas Aquinas Church, just down the alley from the Ramsey house -- and he was in the area that night -- remember the name Oliva? I think he is a far better suspect.

And Helgoth -- the "suicide" from February 1997 -- his case is suspicious because of the trajectory of the bullet -- and the fact he shot himself through a pillow using his non-dominant hand - and the fact that there were Hi-Tec boots and a stun gun by his side when he died. I think he is a better suspect.

And how about Gardiner -- the guy who said Jonbenet came to him after her death. He stabbed Jay Elowski because he blamed Jay for her death. Did you know a handwriting expert said Gardiner's writing appeared to be amatch? Sure did -- told me he called the BPD and they refused to answer his call. How did he get Gardiner's handwriting? Gardner wrote to him and asked him to compare JAY's hand with the ransom note -- but the expert was far more interested in Gardiners -- and it is a shame no one called back.

The case is unsolved. So many reasonable leads -- but i don't know of any in Atlanta.

[Not Cute]

justwatching wrote:

<quoted text>
People who knew the family from the pageants say that the family was NOT just interested in winning. Patsy had helped some of the less.... rich kids ... get nice clothes. She did what she could to make sure JonBenet and others had FUN. It wasn't cut throat for them as it is for some families.
I know the TV shows take the worst of the worstto show the demanding, screaching, horrid moms. But not all are like that.
Think of pageants as a sport. Not all parents are willing to break the coach's arms if they don't choose their kids first. Right?

The fact that some are is enough. What possibly could a child gain by participating in those pageants. These types of pageants destroy or distort a girls self esteem and worth. They don't look cute. They are dressed up very cheaply. Its a pedophiles dream. I think these mothers should have their heads examined and be interviewed by the dept. of social services as well as take parenting classes. The only one's that seem to be having fun are the weirdo mothers. Try enrolling them in school plays or sports like normal people.

[Not Cute]

justwatching wrote:

You lost me. I don't know who you are accusing.
I had a suspect who lived in Atlanta - a kid. But john didn't name him.

The parents are to blame for making her daughter bait. I believe someone in that house of horror did it. I hope the mother who should have protected her daughter feels guilty for the rest of her life. She knows who did it.

[And]

justwatching wrote:

<quoted text>
As far as i can tell, they are paying their bills. We all have them.

Just like OJ Simpson.

[And]

DEB wrote:

<quoted text>
I think we have to remember they how the Ramsey's were treated. They were publically accussed by law inforcement & tabloids before ever being tried, before ever reviewing evidence, or interviewing other suspects, and John lost his business. This is why they wrote the book and did interviews.
As far as dressing up little girls, I loved to play dress-up when I was little. And always watched Miss America Pagents and would pretend to be in a contestant. With Patsy and her sister
being in pagents, it was a natural hobby for a little girl who was out-going and talented. An excellent venue for developing talent, poise, confidence, and a future Miss America.

And destroying self esteem and distorting a little girls self image and contributing to eating disorders and psychological problems and making mommy feel pretty, important and special and....
Dress up is one thing but looking like little prostitutes is another. You need your head examined and billions of people would agree. Your passing you psychological problems on to your child. When people see these pageant they are looking in disgust and not admiration. Preparing a child for the future miss america at such an early age. What are you thinking? We are thinking crazy and messed up. What ever happened to doctor,nurses, lawyers, or something your children can actually be proud of. By the way, statistically, its usually someone in the childs house that commits the crime.