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Away on Business
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We might be on to something with this idea of proportioning property taxes by the number of children a household has . . . but only if we also pay out social security by the number of wage earners you created to perpetuate the system on the other end.
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An American
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Dee. So, you are angry that President Bush vetoed the Intelligence Authorization bill that prevents the CIA and other U.S. agents from interrogating detainees using techniques you disapprove of.
I am willing to wager that those in Tibet who are attempting to regain some sense of freedom will take what you consider "torture" over that which the Chinese army is using against them.
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870girl
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Al Franken is a comedian? Could have fooled me ... Bout as funny as a broken arm I'd say. Him running for Congress is what is truly amusing. I guess anyone is qualified to be a Congressman these days.
Frances - I agree with most of what you say, but since complaning is human nature, I dont believe that people didnt complain during WW2 - they just probably did it mostly in private. Also, I think people always made the appearance they were participating in the war effort, but I heard that during mandatory blackouts, instead of turning off the lights in their homes to conserve energy, people just painted their windows black.
Dee - are you just as outraged over the "illegal, immoral and inhumane actions" of the terrorists and jihadists? Raping women, gassing and torturing masses of innocent civilians, flying jet planes into tall buildings, cutting off the sexual organs of women, and so on?? Or are these actions excusable because these people are still living in the stone age and don't know any better?
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Kaye Ellis
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Away on Business - Thanks! I always point this out and it is nice to know someone else out there gets it too.
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highland guy
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I'm glad Jean in N St Paul thinks Franken sounds so smart. Is it telling that someone who doesn't know how to use "whom" correctly and finishes her penultimate sentence with a dangling participle is so impressed with Franken's radio smarts?
"I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and dog-gonnit, people like me!"
That old SNL line is apparently all one needs to be qualified to run on the Democratic ticket in 2008. Like Obama, Franken has little real experience at anything and is simply running on his celebrity name.
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SWT
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Susan, I hear you saying that you don't want to pay for the education of the next generations. My question to you then is: who is going to be putting the money in the pot to pay your social security when the time comes? With no education the young won't make any money to be taxed. Not to mention who will be your doctor or nurse, cook, lawyer, financial advisor etc. when you are older and unable to do those things yourself? We all benefit from the education of the adults of the future.
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Gndydncr
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Jean, Jean, Jean, Jean, Jean! Apparently you were the only one listening to Al on his nationally broadcast radio program, which is why it didn’t last very long. The evidence is that Al doesn’t care about Minnesota; otherwise he would have been living here for the last 25 years supporting this state with his tax dollars. Unless, of course, living here would not have been conducive to his predominate (yet small) career of being a writer and comedian. Al cares most about Al. As far as deserving our support… seems like he’s getting plenty of support from an entertainment industry that also doesn’t much care about Minnesotans. My bet is that if Al looses the election, he’ll pack up his carpet bag and move back east. We can do better.
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HonestLiberal
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I am not concerned with Al's qualifications. He was wonderful on Air America. He is compassionate, caring and genuine. He wants to tax the rich to feed the poor. Those rich people will do anything to get out of paying their fair share. We need Al and other democrats to make sure all is fair. Without democrats who will take care of the disenfranchised of the world?
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Gndydncr
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SWT wrote: Susan, I hear you saying that you don't want to pay for the education of the next generations. My question to you then is: who is going to be putting the money in the pot to pay your social security when the time comes? With no education the young won't make any money to be taxed. Not to mention who will be your doctor or nurse, cook, lawyer, financial advisor etc. when you are older and unable to do those things yourself? We all benefit from the education of the adults of the future. I agree. I am a product of the public school system; however my children attended parochial school (my choice). I continue to support the schools in my neighborhood but I’m not willing to give them carte blanche. A community is better off with an educated population than it is with an uneducated one. Unless one lives on a desert island or becomes a hermit, we rely on others and their intelligence to help maintain our living style. We get frustrated when we encounter a person that doesn’t seem to know their job very well. Imagine what it would be like if that were the norm. From a dollars and cents perspective, I think property values in a neighborhood with a school are higher than they would be in one without a school.
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bill
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Dee - they may not be your values but they sure are mine. I am no respect for the "human dignity" of scum who kill innocent people in the name of religion. Those who use children as weapons and don't respect women. President Bush may not represent your views but he represents mine and over half the American peoples. You will have your chance in November.
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bill
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Honest lib - I think you mean rob the rich to feed the poor. You libs supported slavery back in the day and still do. You want the hard working successful people to support the worthless and lazy. You are trying to make slaves out of people to serve the big government machine. I wish you would all move to Canada like you promised.
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Karl Marx
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HonestLiberal wrote: I am not concerned with Al's qualifications. He was wonderful on Air America. He is compassionate, caring and genuine. He wants to tax the rich to feed the poor. Those rich people will do anything to get out of paying their fair share. We need Al and other democrats to make sure all is fair. Without democrats who will take care of the disenfranchised of the world? Spoken like a true socialist!
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HonestLiberal
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I do not understand the mean-spirited attacks on me and my first post. Who could be against a fair society where everybody has equal opportunity? The government is there to ensure justice for all.
The rich have more than enough to contribute more. There is no reason why they should have 5,000 sq. ft. homes when others are hungry or have no medical care.
A just society will tax the rich at 50% tax rates or higher because what they have left is enough to live on. The money could be used to help those that did not win in life's lottery. I cannot understand why so many people are against giving for a good cause.
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Gndydncr
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HonestLiberal wrote: I am not concerned with Al's qualifications. He was wonderful on Air America. He is compassionate, caring and genuine. He wants to tax the rich to feed the poor. Those rich people will do anything to get out of paying their fair share. We need Al and other democrats to make sure all is fair. Without democrats who will take care of the disenfranchised of the world? You truly are an “Honest Liberal” and I commend you for that. You’re willing to come right out and say you want to be Robin Hood, to forcibly confiscate money from one person and give it to another person because it fits your model of what’s fair (fairness, of course, being arbitrary). I’m reminded of another story, The Little Red Hen. The Little Red Hen (Republican?) takes what she has (some kernels of wheat) and assumes the risk of investment (putting them in the ground) with the hopes that the investment will grow to a greater yield. Time and time again, she invites her friends (Democrats?) to get involved in the investment (at no risk to them) with sweat equity by helping with the planting, watering, cultivating, harvesting, and processing of the wheat into bread. Time and time again, her friends refuse and do nothing. Finally, when the time comes for the Little Red Hen to enjoy the fruits of her investment and labor (fresh bread), her friends are right there with their hands out to enjoy the fruits as well. In the Honest Liberal’s world, the Little Red Hen is now one of those nasty rich people with all the bread who do nothing but evade taxes and her poor, poor friends who did nothing are the disenfranchised of the world without any food. Where is the fairness? And just to be totally honest, the democrats are doing all they can to evade taxes as well. No one is making voluntary donations to the IRS in order to maintain “their fair share”.
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Thomas F Schraad
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Dee Lindblom, Cottage Grove
“Senators, representatives and U.S. people of conscience, we cannot let the president get away with this. He is violating the American values upon which we have prided ourselves, and he needs to be prosecuted for his illegal, immoral and inhumane actions in the guise of "national security."
With all the killing of the unborn, permitting chemical abortions, promoting sex in our schools, cloning of new life and then killing this life, experimenting with new life, promoting homosexual lifestyles, etc. You are asking our Democratic congress to be moral and humane? The President approval rating is over 30%, which is terrible, but congress approval rating is around 10%. If anyone should be prosecuted, it should be our representatives in congress. Come election time, the President will be gone but we will still be stuck with those who have a 90% disapproval rating. Remember, we only get to vote for the people the political party activists endorse. Good people who oppose an issue the political party activists supports, have an highly impossible chance of being elected.
I agree with you that we need moral and humane values and we need to vote for people that have these values.
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Gndydncr
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HonestLiberal wrote: I cannot understand why so many people are against giving for a good cause. "Giving" is the wrong word. "Confiscating" is a more accurate.
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Thomas F Schraad
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HonestLiberal wrote: I am not concerned with Al's qualifications. He was wonderful on Air America. He is compassionate, caring and genuine. He wants to tax the rich to feed the poor. Those rich people will do anything to get out of paying their fair share. We need Al and other democrats to make sure all is fair. Without democrats who will take care of the disenfranchised of the world? And Al's is one of the rich so as I understand your post, Al wants to tax himself. All he needs to do is write a check out to the government for his excess so that he can become one of us, the poor middle class.
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Why Me
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I think we're against "giving to the poor" as you put it, because it isn't giving to the poor. It is the government taking from us and THEN giving to the poor. You do see the difference right? I'm not attacking you here, I'm just asking. If I choose to give a donation (which many "rich" people do) that is one thing. But the mandatory redistribution of someone's hard earned dollar is another altogether. You see, I get to choose where my hard earned dollar goes. I see the fruits of my labor by giving locally. When I give to a food shelf, to a homeless shelter or a batter woman's shelter I see what I am doing to help people. When the state takes my hard earned dollar, takes admin fees, takes PR company fees, and all the rest of it's overhead out leaving pennies on my dollar only to redistribute it to... Laverne MN for a pork barrell project... See where I'm going? In economic terms they are the least efficient at redistributing the resources. One last thing, and this does cut you a little bit so be strong. I couldn't care less if you are disenfranchised. Be as disenfranchised as you want to be. Go sit in the cornere with the other disenfranchised. Why should I care? And why should I be compelled to bring the disenfranchised back into the fold? That kills me. I'm disenfranchised so I'm going to disengauage... BIG DEAL. HonestLiberal wrote: I do not understand the mean-spirited attacks on me and my first post. Who could be against a fair society where everybody has equal opportunity? The government is there to ensure justice for all.
The rich have more than enough to contribute more. There is no reason why they should have 5,000 sq. ft. homes when others are hungry or have no medical care.
A just society will tax the rich at 50% tax rates or higher because what they have left is enough to live on. The money could be used to help those that did not win in life's lottery. I cannot understand why so many people are against giving for a good cause.
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Gndydncr
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HonestLiberal wrote: A just society will tax the rich at 50% tax rates or higher because what they have left is enough to live on. Why stop at 50%. Why not make the first million dollars tax free and then tax everything over that at 99%? I’ll tell you why. Without the opportunity of unlimited income, the corporations you love to hate would not exist. No pharmaceuticals, no oil, no telephone, no TV, no movies, and on and on and on. If you are person with perfect health, who goes nowhere, and does nothing I can understand your position. For the rest of us, we are willing to voluntarily give some of our wealth in exchange for the products that others have researched and developed at their own risk to make our lives more livable.
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HonestLiberal
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Funny some of you defend big oil, big pharmaceuticals, big business and the like. While they prey on us working families and live fancy lifestyles we are stuck with the crumbs.
The government must step in and be the great equalizer. Without government we will all be trampled on by greedy corporations and selfish republicans.
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