P&Z approves permit (Halbert House)

Posted in the Corsicana Forum

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WALTER

Dallas, TX

#1 Dec 19, 2008
All the neighbors don't want a "social club" in a residential area. P&Z didn't send letters to the neighbors prior to the opening of this place asking them if they were Ok with a "social club" in a residential area. They didn't make them apply for "SUP" or "BYOB" like all the other businesses in town.
Why?
Because the owner is well connected and his daughter works for P&Z regardless of what the majority want P&Z approved a permit so they can legally operate.
Are they going to consider the neighbors' complaints?
WALTER

Dallas, TX

#2 Dec 19, 2008
Oswaldo

Corsicana, TX

#3 Dec 19, 2008
I own a "dance hall" in downtown. The city made me apply for a $500.00 "SUP" and they charge the other people only $300.00. My "SUP" was denied. I'm in a commercial area. The grand opening day the city send a police raid to my property because they told me I couldn't have alcohol.
Can you believe it?
The "Halbert House" has been operating since may, they didn't need a "SUP", "BYOB" permit and the city didn't send them a police raid. They do serve and provide alcohol in that location.
I know about many events and parties where the "Halbert House" owners offered alcohol, they even advertise it as a "prize", a cocktail party in the "Hale House".
I would like to have the same privileges...
WALTER

Lewisville, TX

#4 Dec 26, 2008
We know about your situation Oswaldo. We all believe that you should file a law suit against the city of Corsicana but not in town. Your chances of winning in town are very small, remember, these people control every public official in town.
In Corsicana some people is above the law and all the residents know that. We are sorry you are not one of those.
Good luck!
Steve

United States

#5 Jan 12, 2009
Oh my GOD!!!

This house was an eyesore that was bringing down an already rotting community. The Halbert House has now been restored to it's former glory (or better) and is bringing back the community (and probably the value of your Real Estate). You should be praising the Hales endlessly!!!
WALTER

Lewisville, TX

#6 Jan 12, 2009
Steve wrote:
Oh my GOD!!!
This house was an eyesore that was bringing down an already rotting community. The Halbert House has now been restored to it's former glory (or better) and is bringing back the community (and probably the value of your Real Estate). You should be praising the Hales endlessly!!!
So, basically these people are heroes!
This property was going to be restored or demolished by them or some other investor. Should we praise the fact that they did it. Eventually when they sell it they will make a profit. The house is not used as charity, they are charging $750.00 per event. That's a business.
Let's praise the Hales! Come on...
That's not the point of this forum. The neighbors don't want a social club in a residential area.
You need to start a new forum call "Let's all praise the Hales".
You call that area a "Rotten community" that's interesting... I don't think the neighbors think that they live in a "rotten community"...
Oswaldo

Corsicana, TX

#7 Jan 12, 2009
Steve wrote:
Oh my GOD!!!
This house was an eyesore that was bringing down an already rotting community. The Halbert House has now been restored to it's former glory (or better) and is bringing back the community (and probably the value of your Real Estate). You should be praising the Hales endlessly!!!
I thought this forum was about P&Z permit for a "social club" not about restoring properties.
Is someone confuse?
christine

Dallas, TX

#9 Jan 12, 2009
I came across this blog because I was trying to show my in-laws where my fabulous wedding is going to be. I found Halbert house about 3 months ago and thought it was the most beautiful house to get married in. Then I took a trip down your way and met with Mrs. Bruce. She began to explain the history of the house, as well as showed me before and after photos. Obviously they put tremendous effort and money into restoring this house to its glory!!

I was extremely disappointed when I saw this blog, all be it very small, and the attitude that was taken toward the establishment. I know for a fact that I wanted to book my wedding on a certain Saturday, and they already had a wedding on that weekend. When I said I would take Friday, Mrs. Bruce explained to me that they do not book 2 weddings in the same weekend. At first I was a little put off, but then she explained about the residential neighborhood. She also informed me that she and her father live within walking distance of the house. She explained that the neighbors were not all in favor of the house, and I just could not understand why. Then I start to read your complaints. All I have to say is...really?? really?? Your entire complaint is that there may be a wedding going on for an hour or 2 at your neighbors?? The first thing that popped into my head was what is worse, seeing a completely dilapidated house across the street every day, or seeing couples get married? And I get the point about a business in a residential neighborhood, but this isn’t really a business. If you are looking at profit...$750 per weekend times 52 weekends in a year is $39,000 per year....that is less than half of my salary. So the first thing I see is that no one is getting rich off the deal!! And I don't know much about finance, but I am SURE they spent more than 10 times that restoring the place.
All I have to say is that I wish my neighbors would care about their town as much as the Bruce’s obviously do!! Maybe some of you guys should take a giant step back and see the tremendous good that has taken place in your tiny little town.
WALTER

Lewisville, TX

#10 Jan 13, 2009
christine wrote:
I came across this blog because I was trying to show my in-laws where my fabulous wedding is going to be. I found Halbert house about 3 months ago and thought it was the most beautiful house to get married in. Then I took a trip down your way and met with Mrs. Bruce. She began to explain the history of the house, as well as showed me before and after photos. Obviously they put tremendous effort and money into restoring this house to its glory!!
I was extremely disappointed when I saw this blog, all be it very small, and the attitude that was taken toward the establishment. I know for a fact that I wanted to book my wedding on a certain Saturday, and they already had a wedding on that weekend. When I said I would take Friday, Mrs. Bruce explained to me that they do not book 2 weddings in the same weekend. At first I was a little put off, but then she explained about the residential neighborhood. She also informed me that she and her father live within walking distance of the house. She explained that the neighbors were not all in favor of the house, and I just could not understand why. Then I start to read your complaints. All I have to say is...really?? really?? Your entire complaint is that there may be a wedding going on for an hour or 2 at your neighbors?? The first thing that popped into my head was what is worse, seeing a completely dilapidated house across the street every day, or seeing couples get married? And I get the point about a business in a residential neighborhood, but this isn’t really a business. If you are looking at profit...$750 per weekend times 52 weekends in a year is $39,000 per year....that is less than half of my salary. So the first thing I see is that no one is getting rich off the deal!! And I don't know much about finance, but I am SURE they spent more than 10 times that restoring the place.
All I have to say is that I wish my neighbors would care about their town as much as the Bruce’s obviously do!! Maybe some of you guys should take a giant step back and see the tremendous good that has taken place in your tiny little town.
Another wacko that lost the point of this forum!
The neighbors actually are in favor of the house, they like it. They just don't like the idea of having a "social club" in their residential area. I don't live in that street but I understand other people's concerns.
We are talking about a permit that P&Z gave to the property owners to operate as a "social club" or "private club" when many other people have been applying for this kind of permit in commercial areas and have been denied.
What make the "Hales" different than other people in town?
Why are they allowed to have this privilege and not other people?
Can anyone restore a house and have a "social club" or "private club" in a residential area?
Probably because her daughter works at P&Z and they are friends with the mayor.
I think you have to be more informed and not comment with your selfish point of view (my wedding).
Neighbors actually care about town and that's why they don't want a "social/private club" in that area.
"Tiny little town", is this necessary, do you have to put Corsicana down? some people like small towns...
Maybe you should criticize the city officials for the way they proceed (unfair manner, favoritism, protectionism).
If the "Hales" can do it then everyone should be able to do it...
Susan Hale Bruce

Dallas, TX

#11 Jan 13, 2009
I appreciate your concerns about our city, but I would like to address a few inaccuracies.

I do not work for P&Z or the city in any fashion; I do serve on the P&Z Commission, which is a volunteer position.

We have never sold or allowed the sale of alcohol at any event.

There is a difference between a private club (a bar) and a dance hall/social club (events facility). I can direct you to the differences in the ordinances if you like. It is my understanding that no one has been denied a permit for a dance hall or social club. Yes, people have been denied a permit for a private club, again, a bar, but no denials for a dance hall/social club.

Thanks for taking the time to keep Corsicana on the straight and narrow. If you would like to discuss this in person, I am ready to talk.
WALTER

Lewisville, TX

#12 Jan 13, 2009
Susan Hale Bruce wrote:
I appreciate your concerns about our city, but I would like to address a few inaccuracies.
I do not work for P&Z or the city in any fashion; I do serve on the P&Z Commission, which is a volunteer position.
We have never sold or allowed the sale of alcohol at any event.
There is a difference between a private club (a bar) and a dance hall/social club (events facility). I can direct you to the differences in the ordinances if you like. It is my understanding that no one has been denied a permit for a dance hall or social club. Yes, people have been denied a permit for a private club, again, a bar, but no denials for a dance hall/social club.
Thanks for taking the time to keep Corsicana on the straight and narrow. If you would like to discuss this in person, I am ready to talk.
Did the city of Corsicana made you apply for "BYOB"?
Did the city gave you the same problems they gave to other dance/social halls?
Yes, No, Why?
WALTER

Lewisville, TX

#13 Jan 13, 2009
Susan Hale Bruce wrote:
I appreciate your concerns about our city, but I would like to address a few inaccuracies.
I do not work for P&Z or the city in any fashion; I do serve on the P&Z Commission, which is a volunteer position.
We have never sold or allowed the sale of alcohol at any event.
There is a difference between a private club (a bar) and a dance hall/social club (events facility). I can direct you to the differences in the ordinances if you like. It is my understanding that no one has been denied a permit for a dance hall or social club. Yes, people have been denied a permit for a private club, again, a bar, but no denials for a dance hall/social club.
Thanks for taking the time to keep Corsicana on the straight and narrow. If you would like to discuss this in person, I am ready to talk.
You don't sell alcohol but you have provided (We have proof). The city don't allow this to other facilities. Why?
Do you think you have been treated different by the city officials in town than other business owners?
Do you think your position in the P&Z council have helped you to start your business (Halbet house)?
WALTER

Lewisville, TX

#14 Jan 13, 2009
Susan Hale Bruce wrote:
I appreciate your concerns about our city, but I would like to address a few inaccuracies.
I do not work for P&Z or the city in any fashion; I do serve on the P&Z Commission, which is a volunteer position.
We have never sold or allowed the sale of alcohol at any event.
There is a difference between a private club (a bar) and a dance hall/social club (events facility). I can direct you to the differences in the ordinances if you like. It is my understanding that no one has been denied a permit for a dance hall or social club. Yes, people have been denied a permit for a private club, again, a bar, but no denials for a dance hall/social club.
Thanks for taking the time to keep Corsicana on the straight and narrow. If you would like to discuss this in person, I am ready to talk.
Thanks for the correction. You are a volunteer but your vote has a huge impact in the city meetings.
We don't need your help with the "dance/social hall ordinance" we know it better than whoever wrote it. We have read it many times.
Actually, we, the citizens, "thank you" for keeping Corsicana "fair and straight"...
Susan Hale Bruce

Dallas, TX

#15 Jan 13, 2009
WALTER wrote:
<quoted text>
Did the city of Corsicana made you apply for "BYOB"?
Did the city gave you the same problems they gave to other dance/social halls?
Yes, No, Why?
Yes, but we have complied with their requests.
WALTER

Lewisville, TX

#16 Jan 13, 2009
Susan Hale Bruce wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but we have complied with their requests.
So, you are saying that other property owners don't comply with the city requests?
Do you have any specific examples?
We have all the information (proof). Receipts, newspapers, links, magazines, people, property owners (investors)to proof our point.
Don't get me wrong this is nothing personal. This is about how the city officials handle things in town. If you guys can do it why not other people?
WALTER

Lewisville, TX

#17 Jan 13, 2009
Susan Hale Bruce wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but we have complied with their requests.
Quote from "Corsicana Daily Sun" 12-19-08:
*However, Hale and his daughter, Susan Bruce — a member of the Planning and Zoning Commission who did not participate in the panel’s deliberations — said they were told by the city the facility was required to have a Specific Use Permit under the guidelines of the city’s recently-passed “Dance Hall/Social Hall” ordinance. Both disagreed with the city’s ruling requiring the permit, but agreed to file for one.*

http://www.corsicanadailysun.com/local/local_...

Could you explain us why do you disagreed?
Do you think you (the "Hales") should be exempt from city regulations? Why?

The "Halbert house" has been operating since may-2008.
Did the city inspector came to your place and closed down?
Did he put (red or orange) stickers on the windows of the property showing that it was close for business?
Did they allow you to operate until you got your permit? Why?
I hope you take the time to answer every single question.
By the way, we, all the group of investors from the downtown area will be there at the January-20 meeting to observe and give our comments to the city council. Will see you then...
Susan Hale Bruce

Dallas, TX

#18 Jan 13, 2009
WALTER wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you are saying that other property owners don't comply with the city requests?
Do you have any specific examples?
We have all the information (proof). Receipts, newspapers, links, magazines, people, property owners (investors)to proof our point.
Don't get me wrong this is nothing personal. This is about how the city officials handle things in town. If you guys can do it why not other people?
Sorry, I wasn't trying to say that other people weren't complying. I was just saying that we were given a list of things to do for the social club permit, which we did.
Susan Hale Bruce

Dallas, TX

#19 Jan 13, 2009
WALTER wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't sell alcohol but you have provided (We have proof). The city don't allow this to other facilities. Why?
Do you think you have been treated different by the city officials in town than other business owners?
Do you think your position in the P&Z council have helped you to start your business (Halbet house)?
The city does allow businesses to provide alcohol at no charge and with no cover charge. Examples are Xochitl, Excalibur, and Italian Village (before Italian Village got their liquor license).

I believe my position on the commission has helped me understand our zoning ordinances and what is or isn't allowed.
Susan Hale Bruce

Dallas, TX

#20 Jan 13, 2009
WALTER wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the correction. You are a volunteer but your vote has a huge impact in the city meetings.
We don't need your help with the "dance/social hall ordinance" we know it better than whoever wrote it. We have read it many times.
Actually, we, the citizens, "thank you" for keeping Corsicana "fair and straight"...
Obviously my vote doesn't count too much because I voted against the motion to deny Oswaldo's SUP for a private club.
WALTER

Lewisville, TX

#21 Jan 13, 2009
Susan Hale Bruce wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously my vote doesn't count too much because I voted against the motion to deny Oswaldo's SUP for a private club.
Do you think that what the city made to Mombassa and VG'S was unfair?
If so, who is behind all these decisions?
Who is/are the one/s that decide some people can and some people can't?
Who has the ultimate master control of the city of Corsicana?

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