Art dealer: Erie County could get $5 ...

Art dealer: Erie County could get $5 million for Hassam painting

There are 27 comments on the Erie Times News story from Jul 28, 2011, titled Art dealer: Erie County could get $5 million for Hassam painting. In it, Erie Times News reports that:

Another New York City-based art dealer -- confident that an Erie County government-owned painting by impressionist Frederick Childe Hassam could fetch at least $5 million at auction -- is also interested in selling the work on the county's behalf.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Erie Times News.

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TaxNoMore

United States

#1 Jul 28, 2011
Delicious,

won't take long to go through that chump change.
Stu Pedaso

Ravenna, OH

#2 Jul 28, 2011
The painting was and is a gift. It should never be sold.

If it's worth $5 Mil it should have some attraction to art appreciator tourists that requires no taxpayer investment beyond providing the care it requires.

That it would be sold to put the proceeds in the pockets of public employees is pukeworthy.
Observer1

Erie, PA

#3 Jul 28, 2011
Wonder how many of the same people opposing the sale of government-owned artwork demand that churches strip their walls bare to feed the hungry? It is a complex issue of the relative value of artistic beauty versus the practical needs of the people.
Stu Pedaso

Ravenna, OH

#4 Jul 28, 2011
Selling something gifted to all of us to benefit a few of us has what to do with your observation? And what is so complex about honoring the intent of the donor?

Government=Churches?Public Employees=The Hungry? I don't think so.
Observer1 wrote:
Wonder how many of the same people opposing the sale of government-owned artwork demand that churches strip their walls bare to feed the hungry? It is a complex issue of the relative value of artistic beauty versus the practical needs of the people.
Cop Firefighter Teacher

Erie, PA

#5 Jul 28, 2011
Sell it! Sell it! We want MORE!
Observer1

Erie, PA

#6 Jul 28, 2011
Well, it it has such a high monetary value its sale could substitute for increased taxes on all County taxpayers, although keeping it may generate some form of revenue as well from art appreciators who might visit the community. Same with the art treasures of the Vatican, which draw a lot of visitors, many of whom contribute to the charities of the church while viewing the artworks which promote both spiritual and humanitarian values. Yet so many of those who want the Vatican to liquidate all their artworks are aghast that a local government would sell art to help pay for its totally secular obligations.
Stu Pedaso

Ravenna, OH

#7 Jul 28, 2011
I doubt there's a cite that could be found to support this conclusion or that would add to it some relevance. The Vatican has plundered Catholics for centuries for no other purpose than the accumulation of wealth and power in direct contradiction of Christianity.

Those who might want divestiture would be seeking an 'addition by subtraction', I'd say, making a better Church by removing an un-Christlike accumulation of worldly wealth.

The County has been squandering local wealth for a long time. Sending a beautiful piece of gifted art down the same sewer used by a string of union-owned Dem pols would be a sickening betrayal of the trust that accompanied the gift.
Observer1 wrote:
Yet so many of those who want the Vatican to liquidate all their artworks are aghast that a local government would sell art to help pay for its totally secular obligations.
yoo hoo

Erie, PA

#8 Jul 28, 2011
Stu Pedaso wrote:
I doubt there's a cite that could be found to support this conclusion or that would add to it some relevance. The Vatican has plundered Catholics for centuries for no other purpose than the accumulation of wealth and power in direct contradiction of Christianity.
Those who might want divestiture would be seeking an 'addition by subtraction', I'd say, making a better Church by removing an un-Christlike accumulation of worldly wealth.
The County has been squandering local wealth for a long time. Sending a beautiful piece of gifted art down the same sewer used by a string of union-owned Dem pols would be a sickening betrayal of the trust that accompanied the gift.
<quoted text>
I understand you're emotional but if we sold the painting, put up a velvet Elvis painting, and told Erieites it was worth 10 million I doubt they'd know the difference. I can't offer a link to justify that opinion, but art as they say, is in the eye of the beholder. I like still life fruit bowl scenes :)
yoo hoo

Erie, PA

#9 Jul 28, 2011
Observer1 wrote:
Same with the art treasures of the Vatican, which draw a lot of visitors, many of whom contribute to the charities of the church while viewing the artworks which promote both spiritual and humanitarian values. Yet so many of those who want the Vatican to liquidate all their artworks are aghast that a local government would sell art to help pay for its totally secular obligations.
I don't care if the library artwork is sold. And if it was a gift it should be for the recipients/their representatives to do with it as they please.

I've advocated the Vatican liquidate much of their assets. Two points:

1 - while the artworks promote spiritual and humanitarian values, followers of the church are by definition led. I say hang up an old dishrag, tell them to venerate that and the problem is solved.

2 - If the assets are sent to save lives of say, African Catholics...what could be money better spent than that spent on creating more Catholics? Preventing death plus disallowing birth control equals more Caholics in the world. Ta Da!

Of course that will lead to more hungry Catholics in the world but that's one of the mysteries of the faith: keep plunking out kids even though there aren't adequate resourse dispersal to feed them all, but it's ok. The lord will provide ;)
Stu Pedaso

Ravenna, OH

#10 Jul 28, 2011
You don't have to agree with any particular belief system to expect that a 'practicing what one preaches' philosophy would better all of them.

The money ought to be used firstly on those Catholic religious who took their vows of poverty seriously and are now in their last years.

http://oce.catholic.com/index.php...
yoo hoo wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't care if the library artwork is sold. And if it was a gift it should be for the recipients/their representatives to do with it as they please.
I've advocated the Vatican liquidate much of their assets. Two points:
1 - while the artworks promote spiritual and humanitarian values, followers of the church are by definition led. I say hang up an old dishrag, tell them to venerate that and the problem is solved.
2 - If the assets are sent to save lives of say, African Catholics...what could be money better spent than that spent on creating more Catholics? Preventing death plus disallowing birth control equals more Caholics in the world. Ta Da!
Of course that will lead to more hungry Catholics in the world but that's one of the mysteries of the faith: keep plunking out kids even though there aren't adequate resourse dispersal to feed them all, but it's ok. The lord will provide ;)
yoo hoo

Erie, PA

#11 Jul 28, 2011
Stu Pedaso wrote:
1)You don't have to agree with any particular belief system to expect that a 'practicing what one preaches' philosophy would better all of them.
2)The money ought to be used firstly on those Catholic religious who took their vows of poverty seriously and are now in their last years.
http://oce.catholic.com/index.php...
<quoted text>
1)You being a dedicated Catholic I'm suprised you'd say this. I don't see how Catholicism could benefit from Lutherans practicing what they preach. As you presumably try to practice what you preach, preaching that their practice will disavow them of God's saving grace is what I'd expect to hear from you.

2)In 529AD Justinian I, closed down all philosophy schools as he thought them at odds with the Holy Roman Catholic Church. He saw the Stoics as professing paganism.

One of their mantras was "virtue is sufficient for happiness". That sounds to me right in line with the Catholic religious you speak of who took serious vows of poverty. I question whether their lives would be enhanced much by using money to comfort them in their last years.

Peter O'Toole as Don Quixote said in the movie of the same name "A knight (errant) will not complain of his wounds though his bowels be spilling out". People who take serious vows can be like that ;)

A lot to chew on in that interesting link.
yoo hoo

Erie, PA

#12 Jul 28, 2011
Oops. The movie was actually titled "Man of La Mancha". Books have been titled Don Quixote :)
TaxNoMore

United States

#13 Jul 28, 2011
yoo hoo wrote:
<quoted text>
1)You being a dedicated Catholic I'm suprised you'd say this. I don't see how Catholicism could benefit from Lutherans practicing what they preach. As you presumably try to practice what you preach, preaching that their practice will disavow them of God's saving grace is what I'd expect to hear from you.
2)In 529AD Justinian I, closed down all philosophy schools as he thought them at odds with the Holy Roman Catholic Church. He saw the Stoics as professing paganism.
One of their mantras was "virtue is sufficient for happiness". That sounds to me right in line with the Catholic religious you speak of who took serious vows of poverty. I question whether their lives would be enhanced much by using money to comfort them in their last years.
Peter O'Toole as Don Quixote said in the movie of the same name "A knight (errant) will not complain of his wounds though his bowels be spilling out". People who take serious vows can be like that ;)
A lot to chew on in that interesting link.
People who take serious vows can be like that ;)
A lot to chew on in that interesting link.

http://nibrassoujda.com/objets/anchita%202010...
cheetos

United States

#14 Jul 28, 2011
if sold what percentage for the art dealer and what percentage to the auctioneer? most likely they will dump 25-40 percent to them. i say sell it on e-bay or maybe RE-GIFT it at the library Christmas party. lol. They may get something better from someone else.
yoo hoo

Erie, PA

#15 Jul 29, 2011
TaxNoMore wrote:
<quoted text>
People who take serious vows can be like that ;)
A lot to chew on in that interesting link.
http://nibrassoujda.com/objets/anchita%202010...
I get it sort of in a humor way but oddly your link is actually a good example. This is exactly what Bill Maher was refering to when he said the 9/11 hijackers were not cowards. Why would they be? They like the stoics had the virtue above all thing going on.
Taxsayer

Erie, PA

#17 Jul 29, 2011
I would like to see a legal opinion if the painting can in fact be sold, if it is legal put it on the block and sell to the highest bidder.
yoo hoo

Erie, PA

#18 Jul 29, 2011
Taxsayer wrote:
I would like to see a legal opinion if the painting can in fact be sold, if it is legal put it on the block and sell to the highest bidder.
In my opinion it would be legal to sell it. There you go :)
Stu Pedaso

Ravenna, OH

#19 Jul 29, 2011
Those folks opposed have access to the courts as well. They could make it expensive win or lose; maybe even cloud the issue sufficiently to destroy the market value that has the pols droolin'.

There are plenty of still-familiar names on the gifters list who wouldn't turn their noses up at their share of $5 Million and lots of folks who'd rather see them with the windfall than some pols.
yoo hoo wrote:
<quoted text>
In my opinion it would be legal to sell it. There you go :)
cheetos

Waterford, PA

#20 Jul 29, 2011
imo, they should have had a reproduction made and sold the orginal. seriously, who would have known the difference?
yoo hoo

Erie, PA

#21 Jul 29, 2011
Stu Pedaso wrote:
Those folks opposed have access to the courts as well. They could make it expensive win or lose; maybe even cloud the issue sufficiently to destroy the market value that has the pols droolin'.
There are plenty of still-familiar names on the gifters list who wouldn't turn their noses up at their share of $5 Million and lots of folks who'd rather see them with the windfall than some pols.
<quoted text>
Intersting point. If I were in position to sell the painting and wanted to, if challenged in court I would claim now I have to sell it to go to court to answer why I can't sell it.

On the whole the ends should justify the means. What value to citizens are we getting in return for selling it? I'd wish to sell it and donate the proceeds to the soup kitchen or some such charity.

But if challengers to selling just think we should keep a purty pikture...they're free to bid on it, display it in their home and make it open to any people that wish to catch a gawk at a really expensive object.(BTW I bet that it's valued so high IS the major attraction at this point.)

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