why is the army in the mode of punish...

why is the army in the mode of punishing instead of helping soldiers ?

Posted in the Copperas Cove Forum

First Prev
of 2
Next Last
armyisdying

Killeen, TX

#1 Feb 3, 2011
decided to start a new discusion so i can get feed back and options for what im going thru.i have been active duty for almost 13 years with an additional 5 years of guard time.every time i have deployed,things get more rough for me mentally,physically,emotionall y and spiritualy.over the last 5 years,i have seen the command climate severely deteriate.always preaching every week to take care of soldiers and families,but behind close doors,they severely punish instead of helping time and time again.since i have come back from my last tour(4th one), i have been slapped with an article 15 for the first time and being folowed up by a second one.for the first time in my career they call me a liar.they have broken my medical profile all the time which contributed to wrecking my car with my family in it.the 1sg just laughs and said it was my fault.had a soldier who got a no pay due for he used a wrong routing number for his account.had his wife stay with us and provided food and so forth so she would not be isolated and depressed since the unit was as at jrtc and her husband could not be there.only for 1sg to say it is not my responsibilty and it was the soldiers stupid fault.taking care of families my foot.so now they want to compound it by giving him an article 15 and take pay for spousal neglect.what the heck?and im the one who gets in trouble for fraternization?his wife was with my family while he was at jrtc.i do not fraternize with that soldier.what he does when he is back is his bussiness,not mine.will help when needed in order to mentor but nothing else.what the hell ever happened to people following the nco creed?anyone can memorize it, anyone can recite it as will.but how many can actually interpret,comprehend,understan d and actually implement following what it teaches us ncos to do.you know like...be...know...do?so depressed and frustrated by the fact that people cant understand what it means to be an nco and actually do what it demands of you(nco creed).let me hear your thoughts on this subject.
Anonymous

Killeen, TX

#2 Feb 3, 2011
I can tell you wanted to throw that out there for a while.

Listen....In the Army there will ALWAYS be a percentage of NCOs that are selfish & like to kiss the commander's butt. But most NCOS do look out for their soldiers & make sure everything is squared-away with that soldier.

With you..I guess you could say you were in the wrong place(unit with bad NCOs) at the right time. If all you say is right..then fight that Article 15(2nd one)..but have that proof(a witness, a document, etc.).

I have seen soldiers who are bad when they first get to a unit..then NCOs single him/her out. BUT..that soldier str8ens-up & does what he's told and a couple years later those same NCOs are still treating him like dirt, giving him the worst tasks and not promoting him because they feel "he's not ready" for PV2 or PFC. I'm not talking about any individual soldier, but I'm talking about soldiers that try and try and try to do their best to lose that first bad impression & NCOs never give credit and treat them like dirt they spit on.

Overall...You can feel if something is not right with a unit's chain of command the first few weeks. Talk to your battalion commander if you wanna go to another unit..if he/she says "ha..You'll do fine!" then go up the chain.

People are gonna say.."you have no options in the Army!". You always have options in the Army if you're smart & know who to go to & keep it quiet. Because if you tell the world then someone will try to stop you & tell you.."Oh you ain't going nowhere, you staying with us!"

P.S: You know someone on here is gonna say.."Suck it up!"....Wrong answer Guy!
armyisdying

Killeen, TX

#3 Feb 4, 2011
the problem is the bn cmdr.cant say to much on that in case they decide to print this out and use against me.trying to leave is no option whatsoever.when i got here in 2005,my wife was korean and living in korea.i was told to pay her bah and pay for a place out of my pocket.was also told not to fall behind in my bills or they would prosecute.then added...welcome to fort hood sgt.branch manager refused to reasign me back to korea and ultimately,my marriage failed.was specifically told it was my fault for marrying a foriegner.as far as bad soldiers go.i went to jrtc but came back early due to appointments here at fort hood.so i was put on rear d.all rear d personnel are ones who have severe profiles like mine,chapters, and people etsing very shortly.for every detail,i supposedly had the worst soldiers who hated the army,unit,gone mental,or just came back from being awol.i did notice a pattern.they all gave the other ncos and officers crap like attitude and flipping middle finger, as well as not answering their phones.but for some reason,they never did it to me and always showed up on time for every detail i had.the reason was for the following reasons:1every one is a human being and put their pants on the same way as i do(i hope).2 you get respect when you give respect.3 i take the time to understand a soldiers problems and work with them to find a solution.4 for every detail,i always explain to them why we had to do it and always gave them the bigger picture,even though i technically dont have to.5 i always went the extra mile for them and they in return did the same.and finally i always praised them individually and as a group when a job was done correctly,ahead of schedule, or when a soldier gets creative and finds a better way of doing things.bottom line is, they dont like having an nco who steps out of the marching order and points things out that are morally wrong.sorry but the creed does say i will not compromise my integrity nor my morale courage.havent changed in 17 years and i sure wont conform to the new attitude of always punishing and seeking personal safety and watching my butt and making notes to manipulate others when they do wrong.just wish they would not blend professional feelings with personal ones.those two are not suppose to be mixed together.those are suppose to be separate.the creed does interpret and pretty much says to distinguish between the two.but nowadays,it is okay to mix the two in order to prosecute and send a message that rank does matter and you will toe the line or else.for to admit i am right would mean a sign of weakness of my of superior which in no means is acceptable.seriously blows.
Pedro

Burnet, TX

#4 Feb 4, 2011
Mecca8383 wrote:
I can tell you wanted to throw that out there for a while.
Listen....In the Army there will ALWAYS be a percentage of NCOs that are selfish & like to kiss the commander's butt. But most NCOS do look out for their soldiers & make sure everything is squared-away with that soldier.
With you..I guess you could say you were in the wrong place(unit with bad NCOs) at the right time. If all you say is right..then fight that Article 15(2nd one)..but have that proof(a witness, a document, etc.).
I have seen soldiers who are bad when they first get to a unit..then NCOs single him/her out. BUT..that soldier str8ens-up & does what he's told and a couple years later those same NCOs are still treating him like dirt, giving him the worst tasks and not promoting him because they feel "he's not ready" for PV2 or PFC. I'm not talking about any individual soldier, but I'm talking about soldiers that try and try and try to do their best to lose that first bad impression & NCOs never give credit and treat them like dirt they spit on.
Overall...You can feel if something is not right with a unit's chain of command the first few weeks. Talk to your battalion commander if you wanna go to another unit..if he/she says "ha..You'll do fine!" then go up the chain.
People are gonna say.."you have no options in the Army!". You always have options in the Army if you're smart & know who to go to & keep it quiet. Because if you tell the world then someone will try to stop you & tell you.."Oh you ain't going nowhere, you staying with us!"
P.S: You know someone on here is gonna say.."Suck it up!"....Wrong answer Guy!
Suck it up Must be that bad apple
Pedro

Burnet, TX

#5 Feb 4, 2011
armyisdying wrote:
the problem is the bn cmdr.cant say to much on that in case they decide to print this out and use against me.trying to leave is no option whatsoever.when i got here in 2005,my wife was korean and living in korea.i was told to pay her bah and pay for a place out of my pocket.was also told not to fall behind in my bills or they would prosecute.then added...welcome to fort hood sgt.branch manager refused to reasign me back to korea and ultimately,my marriage failed.was specifically told it was my fault for marrying a foriegner.as far as bad soldiers go.i went to jrtc but came back early due to appointments here at fort hood.so i was put on rear d.all rear d personnel are ones who have severe profiles like mine,chapters, and people etsing very shortly.for every detail,i supposedly had the worst soldiers who hated the army,unit,gone mental,or just came back from being awol.i did notice a pattern.they all gave the other ncos and officers crap like attitude and flipping middle finger, as well as not answering their phones.but for some reason,they never did it to me and always showed up on time for every detail i had.the reason was for the following reasons:1every one is a human being and put their pants on the same way as i do(i hope).2 you get respect when you give respect.3 i take the time to understand a soldiers problems and work with them to find a solution.4 for every detail,i always explain to them why we had to do it and always gave them the bigger picture,even though i technically dont have to.5 i always went the extra mile for them and they in return did the same.and finally i always praised them individually and as a group when a job was done correctly,ahead of schedule, or when a soldier gets creative and finds a better way of doing things.bottom line is, they dont like having an nco who steps out of the marching order and points things out that are morally wrong.sorry but the creed does say i will not compromise my integrity nor my morale courage.havent changed in 17 years and i sure wont conform to the new attitude of always punishing and seeking personal safety and watching my butt and making notes to manipulate others when they do wrong.just wish they would not blend professional feelings with personal ones.those two are not suppose to be mixed together.those are suppose to be separate.the creed does interpret and pretty much says to distinguish between the two.but nowadays,it is okay to mix the two in order to prosecute and send a message that rank does matter and you will toe the line or else.for to admit i am right would mean a sign of weakness of my of superior which in no means is acceptable.seriously blows.
patt yourself on the back some more you sound like a real hero.
armyisdying

Waco, TX

#6 Sep 6, 2011
well it just got compounded.since he was trying to ruin my career,i decided to do a meb board and get out.9 months into the process,he decides to dictate my ncoer.like saying soldier refuses to take responsibility for his accident and blame others.thats for starters.lets see here.....was on a profile taking ten pills a day stating ten hours for rest,was having only four hours sleep and had the accident.mind you, i have the cgs policy letter stating that the specific da form is NOT a recommendation.i have the profile,the article 15 paperwork and the meds i was on.and he wants to give me a 4 and a 5 on my damn ncoer?just because he is writing personal feelings in it and not professional ones?so damn glad i am on my meds and he is overseas or i would have a lack of control.cant wait to finish and publish my book on the military.it will be titled: betrayal of service. one mans account of todays army.will include chapters on how psychiatrists have no authority to enforce profiles,how their told to not do the stress point sheet and how military commands do not recognise mental illness and tell soldiers to cut back on medications in order to accomplish missions.sorry you cant be doped up and dont lose your temper due to lack of proper medicating or we will kick you in the balls again.cant believe i have wasted thirteen years active and 5 years in the guard only to be treated this way.would have been better staying in warehousing and moving up the ladder.for they at least have the ability to fire people who are not professional.
Seriously

Killeen, TX

#7 Sep 7, 2011
With all your issues-you wouldn't succeed in civilian life. With all your appointments and medical issues you would get fired and be living off welfare.
Take responsibility for your actions and stop blaming others for your failure.
armyisdying

Waco, TX

#8 Sep 11, 2011
Seriously wrote:
With all your issues-you wouldn't succeed in civilian life. With all your appointments and medical issues you would get fired and be living off welfare.
Take responsibility for your actions and stop blaming others for your failure.
uh hello,i have been in the civilian world.the army was my first job for two years and then went national guard for 5 years in order to take care of my grandparents for their final years.and you know what?the army taught me all the skills i needed to be succesful in that civilian world.just because sep 11 happened, doesnt give the army an excuse to slide down and ignore the armys values.obviously you are someone who is high ranking and abuses their authority or you have a severe personality disorder.speak inteligently or dont reply at all for im tired of grown people acting like kids and throwing temper tantrums.my civilian employers of the past would tell you that i am a damn good worker.period.
About time

Satellite Provider

#9 Sep 11, 2011
The army leadership has taken a nose dive in recent years. I see it every day.
armyisdying

Waco, TX

#10 Sep 13, 2011
you know it is funny.already had one wreck due to breaking the permanent profile.now their saying it is their right to do so.love the internet.found army regulation 40-501 and it states....if soldier can not follow the profile,then the commander has to go back to the profiling officer who gave it.the profiling officer can amend it or let it stand where it is.key word is.....he has to consult the issuing officer period.
Pedro

Burnet, TX

#11 Sep 14, 2011
Profile profile A temp profile might be ok but a perm profile that hampers performance should not be tolerated.
armyisdying

Waco, TX

#12 Dec 8, 2011
here is the update.1 year into the med board process.most likely several more months before i get my disability percentages.most likely taking the va rating.i am told that it will be most likely 80 to 90 percent.due to all the stuff in my medical records.thank god i went to the doctors every time i had issues and got treatments.like a hernia and so forth.has worked out in my favor.plus i qualify for social security as well.$1,320 a month from them.plus my rental property.yep.......definitely going to be making more on disability than while i am working.tics off every person in my unit.glad it does for karma has a way of catching up to people who deserve to be bitten in the ass.funny how things works out in the end if you really try hard enough.
hello

Apo, AE

#13 Dec 21, 2011
wow, i dont know what they do in the guard but ther is a lot of ways all this things can be delt with. profiles if i had one i will follow whats listed that i cant do no matter what anyone tells me. in my unit soldiers are forced to abide by thier profile. if they get caught breaking their prfiles they might as well shred that piece of paper.cause they will work their ass off.so i would say it is your fault for letting them make you break your profile.
on the soldiers wife issue: the battalion commander can authorize the spouse to live in the barracks until their finacial problems are solved as soon as possible. Or she could've stayed with a friend,family.oh yea hit up mypay and solve the problem.
im guessing the guy is brand new to the army?
hello

Apo, AE

#14 Dec 21, 2011
what the army needs to do is get rid of the troops who have profiles. profiles is greatly being abused now a days. soldiers just wanting to get out of doing things.seen alot of soldiers come in straight out of AIT and cant even run half a block and already on a deadmans profile. i dont get it. are the drills getting to hard now a days that we actually get more broken in soldiers literally.the army is not what it used to be.most soldiers now a days have a great lack of respect,discipline, and pride.all they care about is getting paid and doing nothing.just sucks seeing fellow soldiers getting hurt in combat or while on duty and get litte or nothing when they get out. while soldiers that didnt do shit just go in and bitch about something hurting and get everything. i kno a guy that got kicked out for smoking pot. got a 100% medical cause he was depressed and stressed cause his wife left him. he got two kids and his broke. better yet VA even found him ajob and he gets $3000 a month.guy never been deployed, aint the armies fault the wife left him with 2 kids and sure is not the armies fault that his broke. should've saved the money instead of buying pot which costed his profession.but ill give it to him for cheating the system so well. i think that would save the army alot of money if they do that. it was all about the quanity and not the quality when the recriuters did their thing. maybe the army needs a better screening method for new entries you kno. its ok got 3 more yrs and im out. did my time and proudly serve but this is getting out of hand.
armyisdying

Waco, TX

#15 Dec 21, 2011
isnt my fault they keep breaking the profile. they do what they want.period.they act more like thugs than they do profesional.you can point out things every day but they hide behind their rank.dont worry.once im out,i have all the time in the world to screw with them legally.they are not exempt from federal law governing workplace ethics and so forth.probably will take 2 years to make its way into federal court.it is a good thing i kepted the accident report,the article 15 paperwork showing when on extra duty,my list of medications at the time,the false malicious letter of reprimand,and oh i almost forgot,the ncoer with the worst rating that had false malicious things written in it.never try to screw with someone who has over 13 years active and 5 years guard,you definitely will get burned if you do wrong.definitely making sure this doesnt happen to future recruits.everyone has a right to be treated with respect and dignity.if you cant uphold the army values or the nco creed.....then get out for your not needed.army is a profesion,a way of life,not a ghetto thuggish,empire.
packisback

Killeen, TX

#16 Dec 22, 2011
armyisdying wrote:
isnt my fault they keep breaking the profile. they do what they want.period.they act more like thugs than they do profesional.you can point out things every day but they hide behind their rank.dont worry.once im out,i have all the time in the world to screw with them legally.they are not exempt from federal law governing workplace ethics and so forth.probably will take 2 years to make its way into federal court.it is a good thing i kepted the accident report,the article 15 paperwork showing when on extra duty,my list of medications at the time,the false malicious letter of reprimand,and oh i almost forgot,the ncoer with the worst rating that had false malicious things written in it.never try to screw with someone who has over 13 years active and 5 years guard,you definitely will get burned if you do wrong.definitely making sure this doesnt happen to future recruits.everyone has a right to be treated with respect and dignity.if you cant uphold the army values or the nco creed.....then get out for your not needed.army is a profesion,a way of life,not a ghetto thuggish,empire.
You can not take them to Federal court you will have to go thru JAG & your Chain of Command failure to do so will hurt your case more (document everything time,date,who you talked to, what action was taken etc.) with that info & your medical records go see JAG & again go thru your chain of command. Military goes by different rules & regs then the federal government & it has happen several times that the feds kick it back because you CAN NOT SUE THE ARMY. Look at all the medical mishaps the hospitals have done over the years to soldiers & not a one was able to sue the military. I wish you luck but you still have to follow procedures even if your chain does not also remember the Post Commander has his telvised town halls call up & put it out there that things are bad. He will do something.
armyisdying

Waco, TX

#17 Dec 24, 2011
actually, yes people in fact sued and have one.the point that you are not realizing is this......it is a post wide problem.had i been in 3rd id or in 2id, this would have never gotten this far.cant go equal opportunity for they are military and superiors,legal only backs up the commanders,and ig steps in only if something very majorly whong happens.this is a post wide issue.negative leadership is acceptable by fort hood standards.you cant work in a system that from the start,looks at your rank and pretty much tells you to take a flying leap of a bridge and lets call it suicide in order to say that it is the soldier has an issue.i will give several good examples for you.soldier getting put out under a chapter has a plea deal.the defense lawyer from tds didnt show up for he was on leave.the command tried illegally to push the chapter proceeding thru by telling the soldier oh well.that was wrong and i made damn sure it good rescheduled for i dont believe in thuggish behavior.now on to the next one.a white e-5 has a wife who attacks him with a knife.he is cleared thru family advocacy and chain was told it was self defence.meanwhile,before it was fully investigated,the army command gave him an article 15 and took his rank away.once results were in,he tried to get it back.was told sorry,sucks to be you.tried to appeal to bde cmdr and was told he didnt have time to see him.now next one.my supervisor was hispanic and twice his wife came over for he beat her.he wasnt handling his supervisor job and was on ebay and craigslist all the time instead of doing his job.told the cmdr and 1sg both times his wife was abused,and everyone in the s sections at work knew he could not do his job.end result?since he was hispanic, no rank taken and reassigned to orderly room.i can keep going and going and going.i am glad that you have faith in a system that works for i use to and still do think it works at other bases.but i can assure you this,it doesnt work at fort hood unless you are hispanic,most of the time black,and you are above the rank of e-6.most of the times,whites are bent over.i am definitely not racist and firmly believe in not judging a book by its cover but.......the fort hood book is judged to be very discriminite and i can never and will never forgive them for not upholding the army values that our american government demands of us all.no excuses.wartime or not.
packisback

Stephenville, TX

#18 Dec 26, 2011
Pls the Post Cdr has made it his number 1 priority to clean up this mess that YOU say is post wide. Take it to the newspaper - they have him on record saying he will correct this problem. Bitching about it here is not going to correct the problem. I spent over 23 years in the Army (stationed twice at Ft Hood) there are people you can go to I think you get frustrated & quit like everyone else & say well it's not my problem but it is. Press on fight for what is right get a group together & present your case someone some where is going to step forward & help.
hal

Livonia, LA

#19 Dec 28, 2011
packisback wrote:
Pls the Post Cdr has made it his number 1 priority to clean up this mess that YOU say is post wide. Take it to the newspaper - they have him on record saying he will correct this problem. Bitching about it here is not going to correct the problem. I spent over 23 years in the Army (stationed twice at Ft Hood) there are people you can go to I think you get frustrated & quit like everyone else & say well it's not my problem but it is. Press on fight for what is right get a group together & present your case someone some where is going to step forward & help.
if you served as you stated how can you not know that the military will deal with you for going public with problems that makes it look bad?the military officers have become the kiss ass club if they want promotions!this crap has trinkled down to the ncos!what did you do for 23 years?serve as an officers aide?youre advice will get this mans ass kicked out the military?
armyisdying

Waco, TX

#20 Dec 29, 2011
hal,
nice post.it is true that it has trickled down the ladder.use to be,officers were in charge and did paperwork and did a good bit of yelling.while ncos were in charge of mentoring and taking care of soldiers.nowadays,ncos act like officers and no one takes care of soldiers.everyone out there always watching their backs and kissing a superiors rear end hoping not to get a bad ncoer at the end of the rating period.the problem is so widespread that i eventually learned not push the issue for it would have meant them getting very personal when getting even.i eventually realized that it indeed became very personal and no longer professional.people started using their rank and power for personal reasons and became abusive.now we have a childish pissing contest,i decided that i was not going to drop to that level,save all documentation,and have fun in federal court once i get out.they sure as heck cant touch me,but i sure can make sure they get investigated by a part of the government that is independent of fort hood influence.not really going after them for money,i just want them spanked hard and learn that there is a very good reason as to why regulations are created and are suppose to be followed.as far as money goes,i just want the value of my car that got wrecked and for them to pay my court costs.at least for now.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Copperas Cove Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Vote no for MDD in November election Oct 19 iluvit73 1
Wounded Military Dating or Wounded Warriors Dating (May '10) Oct 18 Tony318 16
Any ladies interested in a friend with benefits... Oct 16 Lonely and married 1
Houston st thugs Oct 16 Ex cop 2
discreet relationships (Jan '13) Oct 16 Lonely and married 2
Benjamin thomas (Jan '15) Oct 2 Kkk 3
1 st Armored Division (May '09) Sep 28 alexsmith86 48

Copperas Cove Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Copperas Cove Mortgages