Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#18998 Jun 8, 2013
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>I am curious about your discription of 'artificial vehicles', in what way do you mean that?
In my opinion, the end consumer of any product or service is the one that pays all of any company taxes. Taxes are a business expense that must be passed on. That may be an opinion of semantics but it seems a law of economics too.
BRUCE BARTLETT explains it in the article that Corporations are Artificial Vehicles created by the US Federal Government through laws and those laws specify what constitutes a Corporation. Bruce Bartlett makes a good point in the article too that corporations cannot raise prices to compensate for the corporate income tax because they will be undercut by businesses to which the tax does not apply. It should also be noted that the states have substantially different corporate tax regimes, including some that do not tax corporations at all, and we do not observe that prices for goods and services vary from state to state depending on its taxation of corporations.

That leaves two remaining groups that may bear the burden of the corporate tax: workers and shareholders.

In 1962, the University of Chicago economist Arnold C. Harberger, published an important article arguing that the corporate tax was borne entirely by shareholders. This was unquestionably true in the first instance; that is, when the corporate income tax was first imposed. The tax simply reduced corporate profits and had to come out of the pockets of shareholders, given that it could not be shifted onto consumers.

But as time went by, some economists argued that a substantial portion of the corporate income tax was ultimately paid by workers in the form of lower wages. This resulted because the supply of capital would shrink in order to raise the rate of return on capital. A smaller capital stock would reduce the productivity of labor and cause real wages to be lower in the long run.

Who Pays the Corporate Income Tax

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/...

The Incidence of the Corporation Income Tax

http://gatton.uky.edu/Faculty/hoytw/704/Harbe...
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#18999 Jun 8, 2013
Anonymous of Indy wrote:
<quoted text>BRUCE BARTLETT explains it in the article that Corporations are Artificial Vehicles created by the US Federal Government through laws and those laws specify what constitutes a Corporation. Bruce Bartlett makes a good point in the article too that corporations cannot raise prices to compensate for the corporate income tax because they will be undercut by businesses to which the tax does not apply. It should also be noted that the states have substantially different corporate tax regimes, including some that do not tax corporations at all, and we do not observe that prices for goods and services vary from state to state depending on its taxation of corporations.
That leaves two remaining groups that may bear the burden of the corporate tax: workers and shareholders.
In 1962, the University of Chicago economist Arnold C. Harberger, published an important article arguing that the corporate tax was borne entirely by shareholders. This was unquestionably true in the first instance; that is, when the corporate income tax was first imposed. The tax simply reduced corporate profits and had to come out of the pockets of shareholders, given that it could not be shifted onto consumers.
But as time went by, some economists argued that a substantial portion of the corporate income tax was ultimately paid by workers in the form of lower wages. This resulted because the supply of capital would shrink in order to raise the rate of return on capital. A smaller capital stock would reduce the productivity of labor and cause real wages to be lower in the long run.
Well it may be a combination of all those things in some cases. The point is however that companies don't dig deeper in their pockets to pay these taxes, fees and fines. They always recoup form somewhere else.

Take note how our house liberal (Canton) constantly complains how the workers wages have not gone up that much these passing years. He actually believes that it's all because of greed and what some CEO salary is. He disregards new regulations like Commie Care, increase in unemployment insurance, workman's compensation, increases in health insurance and things like that. It's the CEO's fault.

Remember that there is only so much the shareholders will lose. When that loss gets too great, they transfer their funds into other investments. You can only go to that well only so many times.
Thomas Scutillo

Aberdeen, OH

#19000 Jun 8, 2013
Motivation = (-_-)zzz

Since: Aug 12

United States

#19001 Jun 8, 2013
Ramming it down corporations throats will only yield less employment at the corporation and lower standard of living in the country. Short and simple...people will go invest someplace else.
.
The only reason the stock market is as high as it is now is there is nothing else worth investing in. Gold and Silver have stopped going up. Bank CDs are junk. Not going as fast as inflation so its just like losing money.
.
The US tax revenue generated is only made up of 12% corporate tax and its already the highest in the world. Time for a differant approach. Set it at zero and recoup the revenue through a million or more new high paying jobs and GDP sold!
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#19002 Jun 8, 2013
UdintBuildThat wrote:
Ramming it down corporations throats will only yield less employment at the corporation and lower standard of living in the country. Short and simple...people will go invest someplace else.
.
The only reason the stock market is as high as it is now is there is nothing else worth investing in. Gold and Silver have stopped going up. Bank CDs are junk. Not going as fast as inflation so its just like losing money.
There may be something to that. But in my opinion, monopoly money has the most influence in the market. Then we have to consider all the companies that are multi-national. They too are in our stock market. So their operations outside of the US may be booming, but not much activity here.

What I've been reading is that the stock market is doing the exact same thing our housing market was doing before it crashed. A lot of people making money, and thinking it would never end. It's an oversold market right now.

It's like what Kenny Rodgers wrote in a song called The Gambler many years ago: You have to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run.
Evil in Office

Logan, OH

#19003 Jun 8, 2013
We want a Governor who does not cover up the crimes of the government officials. A Governor who does not APPLUAD the MURDER of our MOTHERS and ABUSE of our FATHERS. But he does......

I can guarantee you KASICH does not care about MURDER or ABUSE of the ELDERLY.

A governor who honors the OATH they took to UPHOLD and SUPPORT the Constitution and Statutes.

Kasich will protect his peers NOT the people.

From one who can prove what they are saying.

Since: Aug 12

United States

#19004 Jun 8, 2013
Go on and vote in another strickland and say buh bye to another 5000 factories from ohio.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#19005 Jun 8, 2013
UdintBuildThat wrote:
Ramming it down corporations throats will only yield less employment at the corporation and lower standard of living in the country. Short and simple...people will go invest someplace else.
.
The only reason the stock market is as high as it is now is there is nothing else worth investing in. Gold and Silver have stopped going up. Bank CDs are junk. Not going as fast as inflation so its just like losing money.
.
The US tax revenue generated is only made up of 12% corporate tax and its already the highest in the world. Time for a differant approach. Set it at zero and recoup the revenue through a million or more new high paying jobs and GDP sold!
that is the problem now the Federal Government is still wanting the corporations that are left here in the US to fund the entitlement programs just like Social Security which the Federal Government wants to raise the Social Security tax to keep the Ponzi Scheme going because by law Social Security was never suppose to be no more than 2%(1% employer & 1% employee) and the Federal government has kept raising the Social Security Tax which I don't blame corporations for offshoring when the Federal Government lied beside corporations that are still here in the US are being forced to contribute and pay for people to set at home in these expanded entitlement programs which most are funded by Social Security(Great Society).
Pops

Newport, KY

#19006 Jun 8, 2013
Evil in Office wrote:
We want a Governor who does not cover up the crimes of the government officials. A Governor who does not APPLUAD the MURDER of our MOTHERS and ABUSE of our FATHERS. But he does......
I can guarantee you KASICH does not care about MURDER or ABUSE of the ELDERLY.
A governor who honors the OATH they took to UPHOLD and SUPPORT the Constitution and Statutes.
Kasich will protect his peers NOT the people.
From one who can prove what they are saying.
I am not arguing but need to ask, do you hold the president to the same standards/expectations that you espouse for the gov?
why

Kenton, OH

#19007 Jun 9, 2013
I notice that no matter which city you go to there are several "Who do you support" questions. They are all very local specific.... I wonder who is doing that and why?
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#19008 Jun 9, 2013
Evil in Office wrote:
We want a Governor who does not cover up the crimes of the government officials. A Governor who does not APPLUAD the MURDER of our MOTHERS and ABUSE of our FATHERS. But he does......
I can guarantee you KASICH does not care about MURDER or ABUSE of the ELDERLY.
A governor who honors the OATH they took to UPHOLD and SUPPORT the Constitution and Statutes.
Kasich will protect his peers NOT the people.
From one who can prove what they are saying.
You troll. This is the second time you've posted this nonsense and nobody knows WTF you're talking about including me. You're worse than Loren.
mapleman

Amsterdam, Netherlands

#19010 Jun 9, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Please. The only people that believe all that nonsense are those with weak minds. The Democrats say--the followers do. If Democrats say Republicans are racist, then damn it, Republicans are racist. If Democrats say Republicans are stupid, then damn it, Republicans are stupid. Sheep are really unbelievable at times. They don't even realize how they're being brainwashed.
It's not the minorities alone who tilt the big cities towards Democrats, it's lower income white areas too like the west side of Cleveland. Oh, but unlike Republicans, they vote for their own self-interest. So why is Michael Moore a staunch Democrat? What about Warren Buffet, the late Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Oprah, Howard Stern and most all of Hollywood? They all know Democrats are out to get their money.
Now the difference between people coming here from other countries to better themselves and Democrat voters is that foreigners of yesteryear benefited at the expense of nobody but themselves. Democrat voters benefit at the expense of others. Big difference.
You are correct on one thing, and that is corporations don't care about American citizens. They care about producing products or services for profit. On the other hand, Democrat politicians don't care about American people either. That's why they are letting this country slide into debt our grandchildren can never repay.
The bible belt states are comprised of mostly low-income whites. People tricked into voting against their own best interests. At least low-income whites in the big cities vote for what's best for them. They vote like corporations. Only idealistic fools vote country over themselves.

If a rich person votes against his/her financial best interests, he/she will still be rich. Stern, Moore, Buffet, Jobs, Gates, and so forth have enough money to last generations. They can afford to be idealistic. Working-class stiffs can't do the same. It's just dumb.

People who are worried about the future of their children need to teach their children that this is a global economy. Learn skills that will make you employable anywhere. Don't limit yourself to one geographical location. If a city or state goes bad, you move. Same with a country.

All I see is bitterness in the Republican party. Most Americans aren't affluent, so you have a lot of Republicans voting against their best financial interests. The same people worried about what people on food stamps are putting in their carts. If you can afford to eat steak every single day, you don't worry about what people on food stamps fill their carts with. LOL I know I don't. It's bitterness. The government is going to waste my money one way or another. If they ended all the entitlements tomorrow, they'd just waste my money on something else.

Some of you guys are like gang bangers. Draped in the colors of your flag. For what? What is that going to get you? You guys better start treating yourself as if you were corporations. Look out for number one. Life would be better. You'd be a lot less bitter. What's the difference between Republicans who can't afford to take a trip out of the country whenever they want and gangbangers in the hood who are basically in the same position? Both are fools who are more worried about the "set"(in your case the country) than themselves.

Since: Aug 12

United States

#19011 Jun 9, 2013
Gainesville Georgia is just a county seat town in north georgia.(Hall county)Its moniker is the Poultry Capital of the World. The median household income there is $113, 000. Google it.
.
The Bible Belt isn't all low income ;-)
.
I hear slowhio has more people on the dole than they do with a job now.
.
So I assume there's a lot of towns in ohio looking like Sugar Ditch mississippi.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#19012 Jun 9, 2013
UdintBuildThat wrote:
Gainesville Georgia is just a county seat town in north georgia.(Hall county)Its moniker is the Poultry Capital of the World. The median household income there is $113, 000. Google it.
.
The Bible Belt isn't all low income ;-)
.
I hear slowhio has more people on the dole than they do with a job now.
.
So I assume there's a lot of towns in ohio looking like Sugar Ditch mississippi.
We already know that Ohio is one of the 11 states where there is more takers(Welfare Recipients) than givers(Workers paying taxes)

Ga. State study: Welfare programs discourage work, marriage

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_ca...

Click link below to read the Ga. State study(PDF).

http://aysps.gsu.edu/sites/default/files/docu...
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#19013 Jun 9, 2013
mapleman wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible belt states are comprised of mostly low-income whites. People tricked into voting against their own best interests. At least low-income whites in the big cities vote for what's best for them. They vote like corporations. Only idealistic fools vote country over themselves.
If a rich person votes against his/her financial best interests, he/she will still be rich. Stern, Moore, Buffet, Jobs, Gates, and so forth have enough money to last generations. They can afford to be idealistic. Working-class stiffs can't do the same. It's just dumb.
People who are worried about the future of their children need to teach their children that this is a global economy. Learn skills that will make you employable anywhere. Don't limit yourself to one geographical location. If a city or state goes bad, you move. Same with a country.
All I see is bitterness in the Republican party. Most Americans aren't affluent, so you have a lot of Republicans voting against their best financial interests. The same people worried about what people on food stamps are putting in their carts. If you can afford to eat steak every single day, you don't worry about what people on food stamps fill their carts with. LOL I know I don't. It's bitterness. The government is going to waste my money one way or another. If they ended all the entitlements tomorrow, they'd just waste my money on something else.
Some of you guys are like gang bangers. Draped in the colors of your flag. For what? What is that going to get you? You guys better start treating yourself as if you were corporations. Look out for number one. Life would be better. You'd be a lot less bitter. What's the difference between Republicans who can't afford to take a trip out of the country whenever they want and gangbangers in the hood who are basically in the same position? Both are fools who are more worried about the "set"(in your case the country) than themselves.
Back to voting against your self-interest, huh? Well is the US Constitution against my self-inerest? Owning and being able to carry my firearm against my self-interest? Attracting or keeping companies in the US so we have jobs against my self-interest? Viewing all Americans as just Americans and not by race, gender, wealth or sexual persuasion against my self-interests?

We've all seen countries that vote in their self-interest, particularly in Europe. That's the path we don't need to take. You talk about corporations being greedy, and in the same breath, say that there is nothing wrong with greed by the individual.

Oh, but the answer is to just be ready to move. Desert your neighbors, friends and relatives. Well that's the definition of white flight, and look at those areas today.

After a while, there will be no place to move. There was never a war won by people running away. You stay and fight for what you believe in.

As for social programs, your damn right it is my business what people are putting in their shopping cart when I'm paying for it. The difference between industry and the poor is if all the poor moved out of the country, we would be better off. If all industry moved out of the country, the country collapses.
Pops

Newport, KY

#19014 Jun 9, 2013
mapleman wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible belt states are comprised of mostly low-income whites. People tricked into voting against their own best interests. At least low-income whites in the big cities vote for what's best for them. They vote like corporations. Only idealistic fools vote country over themselves.
YOU contradict yourself. Isn't what is best for the country what is best for oneself?
WE do NOT live on this planet alone. WE MUST interact & depend on each other, not just oneself.
WE must consider those that make our medicines, automobiles, refine oil, raise chickens, make shoes, lay bricks, garden etc etc. Especially since NOT one of us can perform all of those functions and more.
Although Idealism is not realistic, voting for Idealism can be pragmatic. Your Marxism is showing. Possibly you are even an Anarchist.
LorenEberly

Mansfield, OH

#19015 Jun 9, 2013
Small Business Loans:

USA Labor Law, The Constitution, and demands of Natural Law: what Mother Nature, God, or Whatever Power decreed to be the reality of the real world, democracy, capitalism, the US Constitution, and free, fair, and affordable commerce and common sense demands.

Demands every Business Owner and their Stockholders, corporation, farmer, business, outsourcer sweatshop, and nonprofit, tax-exempt, organization and Church; markets the cost in the wholesale and retail price of his or her product and service; of every worker, consumer, and taxpayer's wages (union contract), healthcare, pension, investment and independent business profit and pay bank interest on the cost of building, maintaining, and operating their business; with investment profit marketed in the wholesale and retail price of their product and service.

The majority of Us the Government of this Representative Republic that vote and the nonvoters that sit on their dead hands and whine; elect Obnoxious President, Vice President, Governor, Representatives of US the Government, County Commissioners, Township Trustees, Mayors, City Council, School Administrators and Board Members.

That hold Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and America’s grandchildren’s children, Government employees, Parents, Teachers, Veterans, Police, Firemen, and Fathers disqualified for affirmative action with white skin, Representatives deny Collective Bargaining Rights accountable.

To fund Illegal drug users and Illegal Immigrants, lottery, casino, and keno losers, unemployed Union workers replaced with nonunion workers, Human Traffickers, waitresses that pander for life for $2.00 per hour, slaves in tax abated enterprise zones, low-income child labor, consumers, and taxpayers, volunteers without wages, and nonunion workers willing to work for fewer wages than they can afford life. That pays with welfare checks, food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid.

Pay income tax, social security tax, and road tax Amish evade paying 10% of their income derived from wages, Ponzi credit certificates, and independent business profit to nonprofit, tax exempt, Amish Church.

Pay for all stimulus packages, tax abatements, tax incentives, tax refunds, tax credit, and tax exemptions.

Pay sales tax on the more stock dividends (money) OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders (money marketers) market quarterly. In the wholesale and retail price of every product and service Human Beings use for life. And School Boards and Government needs to build, maintain and operate schools, infrastructure, and provide local and national security, and Government services. Vendors collect without compensation. That gets only product or service.

Needed to measure and maintain the strength and growth of this UNAFFORDABLE economy and distribute money Human Beings cannot digest, burn in internal combustion engines, or burn to heat and cool their American Dream. Into OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders portfolios.

Defying USA Labor Law, the Constitution, and Realities demands Makes free, fair, and affordable commerce IMPOSSIBLE; Makes funding schools IMPOSSIBLE; Makes balancing every budget IMPOSSIBLE; Makes Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and Americas grandchildren's children life UNAFFORDABLE; and created Ohio’s $1.35 trillion budget deficit, the $40 trillion social security and the $16 trillion national debt. America’s grandchildren’s children are responsible to pay Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders interest with this debt until they are 18 years old.

America’s grandchildren’s children cannot afford life and pay this debt with the $7.25 per hour Government mandated labor wage in a hundred million years.
mapleman

Amsterdam, Netherlands

#19016 Jun 10, 2013
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Back to voting against your self-interest, huh? Well is the US Constitution against my self-inerest? Owning and being able to carry my firearm against my self-interest? Attracting or keeping companies in the US so we have jobs against my self-interest? Viewing all Americans as just Americans and not by race, gender, wealth or sexual persuasion against my self-interests?
We've all seen countries that vote in their self-interest, particularly in Europe. That's the path we don't need to take. You talk about corporations being greedy, and in the same breath, say that there is nothing wrong with greed by the individual.
Oh, but the answer is to just be ready to move. Desert your neighbors, friends and relatives. Well that's the definition of white flight, and look at those areas today.
After a while, there will be no place to move. There was never a war won by people running away. You stay and fight for what you believe in.
As for social programs, your damn right it is my business what people are putting in their shopping cart when I'm paying for it. The difference between industry and the poor is if all the poor moved out of the country, we would be better off. If all industry moved out of the country, the country collapses.
Move to Bay Village. You don't need a gun walking around out there. Keep a shotgun for home defense. Companies are leaving China for cheaper labor markets. Do you really think they will come back to the U.S.?

The Republican party is the home of racism and intolerance. Why do you think there is all the fuss about gay marriage? It's the home of whites worried about illegal immigrants taking their jobs. Illegal immigrants aren't doing any skilled labor. It's the legal immigrants who are more of a threat to skilled workers. But you can't tell that to mouth breathers.

Europe suffered from white flight to the U.S. and did just fine. People just go where things are going good and where they will have opportunity. That's life.

You ain't paying for none of that food. You don't make enough to pay for it. Stop acting as if you are in a millionaire tax bracket. LOL It's always the people who are a few steps from qualifying for the programs themselves who cry the loudest about paying for the programs. Hilarious.

Since: Aug 12

United States

#19017 Jun 10, 2013
Companies aren't just moving to China. Maybe you could explain why high tech company Agilysis moved from Solon to Alpharetta GA?
.
Democrats are the party of the KKK and George Wallace!
.
Even Dick Cheneys girl is gay.
.
Might ask Sweden how they are doing with that white flight, in case u haven't been keepin up the ragheads are rioting there because cops there wouldn't let one of their maniacs kill an innocent swed so now there's all hell to pay.
.
Most conservatives are responsible enough to pay for their own food. Most are not millionaires.
mapleman

Amsterdam, Netherlands

#19018 Jun 10, 2013
Pops wrote:
<quoted text>YOU contradict yourself. Isn't what is best for the country what is best for oneself?
WE do NOT live on this planet alone. WE MUST interact & depend on each other, not just oneself.
WE must consider those that make our medicines, automobiles, refine oil, raise chickens, make shoes, lay bricks, garden etc etc. Especially since NOT one of us can perform all of those functions and more.
Although Idealism is not realistic, voting for Idealism can be pragmatic. Your Marxism is showing. Possibly you are even an Anarchist.
What is in the country's best interest? Does Haliburton care about the country's best interest? The company only seems to care about money it can make off war. What about the company's controlling private prisons? They want non-violent people arrested for drugs so they can make money. Is that good for America? What about the telecoms who pay politicians off so they can price gouge Americans? I could go on, but you get the picture. Corporations are voting the bottom line with little regard for America. Why should the SMART people be any different?

Farmers will vote for what is best for them, not America. Same with the auto companies. Same with pharma. Same with oil. Same with the Hispanics whose family members are in the U.S. illegally picking your food for cheap(do you want to pay $10 for a tomato).

There will always be fools. I know some people will always vote against their best interests. If those people didn't exist, democracy would be outlawed. We need fools. The problem is that a lot of the Republican base is too foolish. They need to smarten up just a little bit. It would just make things easier.

I'm not a Marxist. I just know the government is going to take my money regardless. Whether the government spends it on $500 toilet seats or food stamps, my money will be wasted. That's a given. That isn't going to change. I don't have to worry about what's going into other carts because I can eat steak and sushi every single day. The average mouth breather can't. If people want to limit their lives with government assistance, why should I care? It isn't driving down what I charge a company per hour for my services. It seems to only be people one step above assistance worried about those on assistance.

The U.S. has the most draconian tax policy on the planet. Even if all the "leeches" came off assistance forever, the draconian tax policy would still be in play. Our money would still be wasted.

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