Instruments In Worship

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#43 Mar 18, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
William, what is the commandment of God that Paul was speaking of in Romans 16:25-27? Which did Paul speak of in I Cor. 7:19? And then you might also tell which ones Jesus said would pass away at the cross?
To come up with 613 commandments you have to also list those which even Jews cannot keep today because the Temple, and this Aaronic preistly rites, cannot be kept today, and haven't sinse at least 70 AD.
Are Set-Apart believers who are not Jews by birth adopted into the true Israel? Would the true Israel keep the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ? Revelation says so. Jesus says so. Even Paul said so.
Psalm 150 is as true today as it was the day first written, as well as the first day it was sung in praise to God Almighty. Do angels sing with harps? Or did that mysteriously stop when Jesus rose from the dead?
lol literal harps in a spiritual world. hmmm
William

Birmingham, AL

#44 Mar 18, 2013
Yes, I am "disobedient" to the torah, since I never was under it to start with.

Grace is where we are today. Paul is my apostle. His gospel (Romans 2:16) is what I will be judged by. Same for you and everyone else.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#45 Mar 18, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
You cannot keep the law/torah no matter how hard you try.
Paying attention to it is not the same as doing it. I notice you do not like to admit that you are disobedient to the torah. You act as though you are loving Jesus by doing everything he says. Have you considered Jesus left his instructions to the apostles-they became his mouth piece, his spokesmen.
5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions:“Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message:‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’
Paul was sent specifically to the gentiles-not the jews. Today, God has concluded ALL men to in unbelief that He might have mercy on them all. Today God is dealing with individuals for salvation, not nations. The law was for the nation of Israel. There are no more temple sacrifices, in fact the temple is still obsolete and in dispute with the dome of the rock on the temple mount being in possession of the Muslims. It has been over 2000 years since the temple was shut down. Removing the apostle Paul from the picture will not change this.
The law and the torah cannot be fully kept until that changes. We are under the spiritual law of salvation by grace, no longer by works. By grace we are saved not of own doing (ourselves) but by the gift of God. This is entirely a new covenant not a renewed covenant as you try to teach.
Lots of talk there, how about the Scripture to back it up? You will need to prove this IS what Jesus taught - not the 'my gospel' of Paul.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#46 Mar 19, 2013
William wrote:
Yes, I am "disobedient" to the torah, since I never was under it to start with.
Grace is where we are today. Paul is my apostle. His gospel (Romans 2:16) is what I will be judged by. Same for you and everyone else.
When are believers 'set apart' to God? At the resurrection? When was Jesus 'set apart'? At His resurrection? Or at the foundation of the world, before man was created?

And what is the 'obedience to the faith' of the first chapter? Just to trust - or to obey what Jesus taught? If Acts 3:22,23 is correct; if the great commission is correct; if the sermon on the mount and every teaching of Jesus is also correct, then 'obedience to the faith' is to abide in the word of hope to eternal life that He gave from the Father is far more than saying you trust in Him, you have to be incorporate the faith He taught into you life - it requires repenting to do the will of God as taught by Jesus Christ.

When did God ever forgive those who did not repent? The principle of His grace upon repentance has been shown to man since the the first sin in the garden. God destroyed those of Noah's time who did not repent, and He is a righteous God, and just, and consistant in all His doings, and most of all, He cannot lie.

We will not be judged by Paul's words, but by the words of Jesus Christ - so we should base our judgments and life upon what He taught first. If you do that, you might find a different meaning to what Paul taught.
xyz

Axton, VA

#47 Mar 19, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
lol literal harps in a spiritual world. hmmm
lol literal heaven in a spiritual world. hmmm
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#48 Mar 19, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Lots of talk there, how about the Scripture to back it up? You will need to prove this IS what Jesus taught - not the 'my gospel' of Paul.
Why won't you deal with the fact that the temple was destroyed and you can no longer keep those elements of the law? If you are going to bind OT law, you cannot just choose those you like and ignore animal sacrifices.

7 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Do you belong to the law or do you belong to Christ Jesus?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#49 Mar 19, 2013
Matthew 28:18-20, we hear Christ say, "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,'All power (authority-cem) is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.' Amen." There are three great truths stated here:

1. The apostles were to teach ALL things which Christ commanded them.

2. The apostles were to teach nothing, but what Christ commanded.

3. The church should obey the apostles' teaching and should not adhere to anything not authorized by Christ.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#50 Mar 19, 2013
2 John 9-11---"Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Is it vital to understand what the apostles were teaching and doing in the first century church?
William

Atlanta, GA

#51 Mar 19, 2013
Did they end up going to "all nations?"

Christ told them that they wouldn't. Matthew 10:23

Maybe he had something else in mind.
nobody

Vanceburg, KY

#52 Mar 19, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
3. The church should obey the apostles' teaching and should not adhere to anything not authorized by Christ.
And we know there are a long list of things the Churches of Christ do that is not authorized, starting with the building they worship in. very much a pick and choose group.
New Guy

Grayson, KY

#53 Mar 19, 2013
William wrote:
Did they end up going to "all nations?"
Christ told them that they wouldn't. Matthew 10:23
Maybe he had something else in mind.
Paul says in Colossians that the gospel had been preached to every creature under heaven. Maybe you should share what you think Matthew 10:23 means.
New Guy

Grayson, KY

#54 Mar 19, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
2 John 9-11---"Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Is it vital to understand what the apostles were teaching and doing in the first century church?
A little context according to the verses? Just what is the doctrine of Christ according to the text of 2 John?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#55 Mar 19, 2013
William wrote:
Did they end up going to "all nations?"
Christ told them that they wouldn't. Matthew 10:23
Maybe he had something else in mind.
I think they did according to Paul
William

Atlanta, GA

#56 Mar 19, 2013
Paul went to the Gentiles. The uncircumcision. Galatians 2 (in a KJV) recounts who went to whom.

Peter, James, and John confined their ministry to believing Israel. Paul went forth with the gospel of the grace of God to "all nations."

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#57 Mar 19, 2013
nobody wrote:
<quoted text>And we know there are a long list of things the Churches of Christ do that is not authorized, starting with the building they worship in. very much a pick and choose group.
Would be interested to see you list. so far you have said

1. Building is a problem.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#58 Mar 19, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
A little context according to the verses? Just what is the doctrine of Christ according to the text of 2 John?
1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not I only, but also all they that know the truth;

2 for the truth's sake which abideth in us, and it shall be with us for ever:

3 Grace, mercy, peace shall be with us, from God the Father, and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

4 I rejoice greatly that I have found certain of thy children walking in truth, even as we received commandment from the Father.

5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote to thee a new commandment, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

6 And this is love, that we should walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, even as ye heard from the beginning, that ye should walk in it.

7 For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

8 Look to yourselves, that ye lose not the things which we have wrought, but that ye receive a full reward.

9 Whosoever goeth onward and abideth not in the teaching of Christ, hath not God: he that abideth in the teaching, the same hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If any one cometh unto you, and bringeth not this teaching, receive him not into your house, and give him no greeting:

11 for he that giveth him greeting partaketh in his evil works.

12 Having many things to write unto you, I would not write them with paper and ink: but I hope to come unto you, and to speak face to face, that your joy may be made full.

13 The children of thine elect sister salute thee.
New Guy

Grayson, KY

#59 Mar 19, 2013
William wrote:
Paul went to the Gentiles. The uncircumcision. Galatians 2 (in a KJV) recounts who went to whom.
Peter, James, and John confined their ministry to believing Israel. Paul went forth with the gospel of the grace of God to "all nations."
But Peter brought the gentiles into the church in Acts 10.
New Guy

Grayson, KY

#60 Mar 19, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not I only, but also all they that know the truth;
2 for the truth's sake which abideth in us, and it shall be with us for ever:
3 Grace, mercy, peace shall be with us, from God the Father, and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
4 I rejoice greatly that I have found certain of thy children walking in truth, even as we received commandment from the Father.
5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote to thee a new commandment, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
6 And this is love, that we should walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, even as ye heard from the beginning, that ye should walk in it.
7 For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.
8 Look to yourselves, that ye lose not the things which we have wrought, but that ye receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever goeth onward and abideth not in the teaching of Christ, hath not God: he that abideth in the teaching, the same hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If any one cometh unto you, and bringeth not this teaching, receive him not into your house, and give him no greeting:
11 for he that giveth him greeting partaketh in his evil works.
12 Having many things to write unto you, I would not write them with paper and ink: but I hope to come unto you, and to speak face to face, that your joy may be made full.
13 The children of thine elect sister salute thee.
Verse 7 is sufficient to show context. What version is this by the way? I recall the text saying, AN antichrist, not THE antichrist. Major theological problems there.
nobody

Vanceburg, KY

#61 Mar 19, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Would be interested to see you list. so far you have said
1. Building is a problem.
I can't seem to find authorization for 18th century denominational songs or Welches grape juice.
New Guy

Grayson, KY

#62 Mar 19, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Would be interested to see you list. so far you have said
1. Building is a problem.
Building and all the comforts therein, prebroken wafers and plastic communion cups in silver cannisters, invitation songs, songbooks, songs by denominational writers, some use international Sunday school lessons, Sunday school, Wednesday night meetings, revivals or gospel meetings, multiple Sunday services, the order of "worship services", some with church bells, bapistries, collections for building funds, pulpits (OT), the "holy handshake", can we find more?

There's a start. Anybody with more?

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