Will All Believers Be In Heaven?

Posted in the Collinsville Forum

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#1 Nov 15, 2012
Too often, in Christian circles, it is proclaimed that man can understand the things of God and understand the Bible on equal grounds. Despite clear evidence to the contrary, most all professing Christians believe that truth in doctrine can be achieved. I contend that the Bible is VERY DIFFICULT to understood equally among one another as the proof is in the pudding i.e., many beliefs/denominations.

I believe man to be incapable of unity in doctrine because man is less than God thus cannot understand things as God. Those who profess to be all-knowing ( the True-One-Church types ) also have lack of unity of doctrine but are too dishonest and prideful to confess to the obvious. The elitist types disagree as much as everyone else but act as though they have real unity.

We all learn things at different levels and make mistakes. This not only applies to secular education but also to that which we read and study in our Bibles. This can be seen in any Biblical classroom. What one person may understand, another may not. Shall I count a fellow believer in the Lord as a devil if he/she fails to understand every doctrine as I? When Jesus saves a lost sinner, he saves them totally ignorant of all doctrine. I think it might serve us well to follow His example.

Most all denominations will have people who go to heaven or only the elite types who have supposedly mastered all of Scripture will be in heaven. I do not know anyone who has mastered all of scripture thus it appears God will save people from various groups.

What say ye?
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#2 Nov 15, 2012
SWTBS wrote:
Too often, in Christian circles, it is proclaimed that man can understand the things of God and understand the Bible on equal grounds. Despite clear evidence to the contrary, most all professing Christians believe that truth in doctrine can be achieved. I contend that the Bible is VERY DIFFICULT to understood equally among one another as the proof is in the pudding i.e., many beliefs/denominations.
I believe man to be incapable of unity in doctrine because man is less than God thus cannot understand things as God. Those who profess to be all-knowing ( the True-One-Church types ) also have lack of unity of doctrine but are too dishonest and prideful to confess to the obvious. The elitist types disagree as much as everyone else but act as though they have real unity.
We all learn things at different levels and make mistakes. This not only applies to secular education but also to that which we read and study in our Bibles. This can be seen in any Biblical classroom. What one person may understand, another may not. Shall I count a fellow believer in the Lord as a devil if he/she fails to understand every doctrine as I? When Jesus saves a lost sinner, he saves them totally ignorant of all doctrine. I think it might serve us well to follow His example.
Most all denominations will have people who go to heaven or only the elite types who have supposedly mastered all of Scripture will be in heaven. I do not know anyone who has mastered all of scripture thus it appears God will save people from various groups.
What say ye?
I say you are making a lot of sense. In the bible God gave various offices to different people, that alone suggest that all of us on on different levels. Although I do not believe that persons of higher intellect have any advantage over others, in fact it could become a deficit when it comes to faith. Jesus mentions the faith of a little child. Simple faith is equally as valid as faith with lots of knowledge.

However, I do not believe in universalism at all!
Advocatus Diaboli

Fredericksburg, VA

#3 Nov 16, 2012
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I say you are making a lot of sense. In the bible God gave various offices to different people, that alone suggest that all of us on on different levels. Although I do not believe that persons of higher intellect have any advantage over others, in fact it could become a deficit when it comes to faith. Jesus mentions the faith of a little child. Simple faith is equally as valid as faith with lots of knowledge.
However, I do not believe in universalism at all!
HAHAHAHAHA! More contradictory posts! You're one funny guy.

What you just said is, "it doesn't matter what you know, but not everyone is going to Heaven."

Too funny!

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#4 Dec 5, 2012
SWTBS wrote:
Too often, in Christian circles, it is proclaimed that man can understand the things of God and understand the Bible on equal grounds. Despite clear evidence to the contrary, most all professing Christians believe that truth in doctrine can be achieved. I contend that the Bible is VERY DIFFICULT to understood equally among one another as the proof is in the pudding i.e., many beliefs/denominations.
I believe man to be incapable of unity in doctrine because man is less than God thus cannot understand things as God. Those who profess to be all-knowing ( the True-One-Church types ) also have lack of unity of doctrine but are too dishonest and prideful to confess to the obvious. The elitist types disagree as much as everyone else but act as though they have real unity.
We all learn things at different levels and make mistakes. This not only applies to secular education but also to that which we read and study in our Bibles. This can be seen in any Biblical classroom. What one person may understand, another may not. Shall I count a fellow believer in the Lord as a devil if he/she fails to understand every doctrine as I? When Jesus saves a lost sinner, he saves them totally ignorant of all doctrine. I think it might serve us well to follow His example.
Most all denominations will have people who go to heaven or only the elite types who have supposedly mastered all of Scripture will be in heaven. I do not know anyone who has mastered all of scripture thus it appears God will save people from various groups.
What say ye?
It boils down to who you talk to. The coc will tell you no water no salvation so there you go. Get to that water of fry in hell no matter if you believe in Jesus and repent you best make it to the water
Mike Conner

New Orleans, LA

#5 Dec 5, 2012
Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
<quoted text>
HAHAHAHAHA! More contradictory posts! You're one funny guy.
What you just said is, "it doesn't matter what you know, but not everyone is going to Heaven."
Too funny!
That's basically what he said.
Randy

Martinsville, VA

#6 Dec 5, 2012
Most everyone will agree that the retarded persons and children below the age of accountability will go to heaven. Does not knowledge play a role, then?

It seems that one must be able to understand certain principles/teachings. If not, we clearly have universalism. Why search the scriptures daily? Why study to show oneself as approved if knowledge doesn’t play a role?

If the bible demands certain criteria in order to be saved, how can salvation be received if one fails to meet the criteria? If baptism be essential as repentance and one fails to be baptized, it seems logical that he will not be saved unless he also is baptized.

If one merely looks at Mark 16:16, it suggest salvation comes as a result of believe and baptism. Does this mean one must KNOW, that at the point of baptism, he becomes part of the body of Christ? Acts 2:38 and Acts 22:16 seem to imply a purpose for repentance and baptism i.e., for forgiveness of sins.

Can a person be saved apart from UNDERSTANDING he MUST be baptized in order that he be forgiven? If this is true, this means all “believers” will not be in heaven. Only the “believers” who properly connect the dots will be in heaven. This seems to take faith out of the equation and makes salvation hinge upon our understanding. Or, is faith mingled with proper understanding, the key to salvation?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#7 Dec 5, 2012
night-owl-early-bird wrote:
<quoted text>
It boils down to who you talk to. The coc will tell you no water no salvation so there you go. Get to that water of fry in hell no matter if you believe in Jesus and repent you best make it to the water
The church of Christ or the bible? I claim the bible teaches those who obey not the will of the Father will be lost. The will of the Father is for people to hear and Obey his son and the gospel of Jesus Christ which includes baptism in water.
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#8 Dec 5, 2012
Randy wrote:
Most everyone will agree that the retarded persons and children below the age of accountability will go to heaven. Does not knowledge play a role, then?
It seems that one must be able to understand certain principles/teachings. If not, we clearly have universalism. Why search the scriptures daily? Why study to show oneself as approved if knowledge doesn’t play a role?
If the bible demands certain criteria in order to be saved, how can salvation be received if one fails to meet the criteria? If baptism be essential as repentance and one fails to be baptized, it seems logical that he will not be saved unless he also is baptized.
If one merely looks at Mark 16:16, it suggest salvation comes as a result of believe and baptism. Does this mean one must KNOW, that at the point of baptism, he becomes part of the body of Christ? Acts 2:38 and Acts 22:16 seem to imply a purpose for repentance and baptism i.e., for forgiveness of sins.
Can a person be saved apart from UNDERSTANDING he MUST be baptized in order that he be forgiven? If this is true, this means all “believers” will not be in heaven. Only the “believers” who properly connect the dots will be in heaven. This seems to take faith out of the equation and makes salvation hinge upon our understanding. Or, is faith mingled with proper understanding, the key to salvation?
God is not a respecter of persons. He does not favor the intellect of a scholar over the mind of a common man. Is He looking for a bunch of good works, giving of your time, treasure and talents? No, not really. God is looking for FAITH, for without it, we can not please God.

Another thought is that faith grows. Do we have to learn all of the word of God and completely understand it and obey it before we can be saved, I think not. In fact none of us are at that level, nor will we ever be on this side of eternity.

However as we grow in faith and knowledge, more is required of us. But, when it comes to initial salvation, very little is required-our faith must be in the true and living God. This is not universalism. Universalism accepts people who believe in foriegn gods or sometimes in no god at all.

God saves sinners who will turn to him and have faith that his only Son provided the (only) sacrifice sufficient to blot out our sin. From there we grow in him and do his will. Correct order is everything.
walkinginlove

Danville, VA

#9 Dec 7, 2012
Randy wrote:
If one merely looks at Mark 16:16, it suggest salvation comes as a result of believe and baptism.
No it doesn't! The longer ending of Mark is all man made and includes a false prophecy to disproves it as truth. Not a single believer recorded in the New Testament drank poison and lived, and even though some may claim that Paul handled snakes if you read the passage he was bitten he did not go out to handle a snake.

Thus to include the longer ending of Mark is to make Jesus a false prophet by the standards God says we are to judge a prophet by in Deuteronomy!
walkinginlove

Danville, VA

#10 Dec 7, 2012
Without the baptism that Jesus spoke of water has no power to do anything. It didn't help Simon the Sorcerer who was still living by his own will.
Randy

Martinsville, VA

#11 Dec 7, 2012
walkinginlove wrote:
<quoted text>
No it doesn't! The longer ending of Mark is all man made and includes a false prophecy to disproves it as truth. Not a single believer recorded in the New Testament drank poison and lived, and even though some may claim that Paul handled snakes if you read the passage he was bitten he did not go out to handle a snake.
Thus to include the longer ending of Mark is to make Jesus a false prophet by the standards God says we are to judge a prophet by in Deuteronomy!
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/605...
Randy

Martinsville, VA

#12 Dec 7, 2012
walkinginlove wrote:
Without the baptism that Jesus spoke of water has no power to do anything. It didn't help Simon the Sorcerer who was still living by his own will.
Acts 8:13-24 is an example of a person baptized and then backslides/falls away. Peter tells him to repent. I don’t see your point here.
walkinginlove

Danville, VA

#13 Dec 7, 2012
Randy wrote:
Show me where people drank poison and lived in the scriptures? A prophecy that was given during the time of the power of the Holy Spirits moving yet the words that Jesus supposedly spoke never came true.

What does God say we are to do to judge if a prophets words are from him.

Deut 18:21 21 [n]You may say in your heart,‘How will we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ 22 When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

And what does it mean when Jesus claims to have only spoken what God the father gave him:

John 12:49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

So we have Jesus stating he only spoke what God told him to speak, he spoke a prophecy that never came true so who lied? God the father who can not lie, Jesus, or the people who added the passages to the word of God?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Collinsville Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Catholics (Feb '14) 1 hr Barnsweb 1,921
Hard Passages: Matt. 19:9 3 hr William 5
Hard Passages: Acts 2:38 Tue Ernie 221
5 Acts of Worship: The error of The Church of C... (Sep '11) Tue gospel-preacher j... 270
Indictments issued Sep '14 shannonsmith 1
We are now open!! Life to Live Counseling and W... (Aug '13) Aug '13 L2LWellness 1
Rachel Kenyon (Aug '13) Aug '13 Tracey 1
Collinsville Dating
Find my Match

Collinsville People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Collinsville News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Collinsville

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]

NFL Latest News

Updated 11:29 pm PST