Baptism: God at work
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#162 Jan 1, 2013
And if it's true with the translations from Greek, I'm further amazed at the dullness towards the AENT that answers many of the difficult passages in its clarity. Enough was mistranslated and deliberately removed by Roman threats that to find an 'original' copy that has been largely unknown in the Western world an no one wants to bother reading it - well, didn't the king in Israel decree that the Torah be read? and then the people repented to do what they hadn't done that God said to do?

Israel of old had more faith than modern 'Christians' do. It goes to show how faithless Western Christianity has become - which again leads me to concude the fulness of the Gentiles must be upon us.

Guess I need to spend my time praying for Israel to recognize their Messiah - Master YHWY Y'shua.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#163 Jan 1, 2013
Many will likely be heading down that pathway to hell because they never really gave any attention of what God actually said - they chose to hire teachers and preachers to make them fell good without knowing how wretched and naken and poor they really are - spiritually in the eyes of God.

The only thing He said to buy from Him is faith that is tried by fire. It's one thing to believe, and quite another thing to do whatever He said. But that is the WORK Jesus said we are to do.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#164 Jan 1, 2013
I will say this- while I'm not on board with Aramaic being "THE" original language of the New Testament, without a doubt we need a better understanding of the culture and meanings of words, phrases, and practices. I think the Aramaic could be helpful with that. After all, the septuagint is a useful resource.

Jesus did say, "When the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#165 Jan 1, 2013
Yes, that's an important point He made there. So what is the faith He was talking about? What is the faith of Jesus Christ?

Certainly we can tell much of it from what He taught.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#166 Jan 2, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Your post reminds me of the story when Hilkiah the high priest found the book of the law in the house of the Lord. The book and the temple had been there all that time- but nobody bothered to go to the temple, or worry about what God had to say. Is today any different? The Bible is the world's best selling book every year, but how many really ever crack it open and read it?
Many really don't care what it says. It's sad.
And, many think they are righteous because of their good deeds. That is really sad! Hope is what we need and Jesus supplies that in abundant grace. That may be a word you guys cannot grasp.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#167 Jan 2, 2013
God is not pleased when we get to a point that we deny the gospel of grace so vehemently that we begin to lose sight of our own sin.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#168 Jan 2, 2013
Bobby wrote:
God is not pleased when we get to a point that we deny the gospel of grace so vehemently that we begin to lose sight of our own sin.
Paul got upset for those who abused grace the other direction than you speak of. Lets see those who said sin was ok and grace would continue to abound. That is as wrong as what you seem to claim some people do with works of merit. By the way obedience to the baptism and repentance are not works of merit or God would not have asked for them to be obeyed.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#169 Jan 2, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul got upset for those who abused grace the other direction than you speak of. Lets see those who said sin was ok and grace would continue to abound. That is as wrong as what you seem to claim some people do with works of merit. By the way obedience to the baptism and repentance are not works of merit or God would not have asked for them to be obeyed.
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means!

Absolutely true! However Jc, how do we receive forgiveness for daily sin? Paul is not saying "now that you have been saved grace/blood will stop covering your sin".

You are correct that repentance is not a work of merit. absolutely wrong saying that water baptism is not a work. Water baptism is a work of merit when done expecting salvation as a result/reward.

We have salvation from the penalty of sin as initial salvation/justification provides. Sanctification is the process where we have continued salvation from the power of sin because we have help from Christ in us.

Paul says this concerning glorification: 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

As a result, the glorified body is immortal imperishable, powerful, and spiritual according to Paul.

And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Do we participate in this with our obedience-you bet we do...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#170 Jan 2, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means!
Absolutely true! However Jc, how do we receive forgiveness for daily sin? Paul is not saying "now that you have been saved grace/blood will stop covering your sin".
You are correct that repentance is not a work of merit. absolutely wrong saying that water baptism is not a work. Water baptism is a work of merit when done expecting salvation as a result/reward.
We have salvation from the penalty of sin as initial salvation/justification provides. Sanctification is the process where we have continued salvation from the power of sin because we have help from Christ in us.
Paul says this concerning glorification: 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
As a result, the glorified body is immortal imperishable, powerful, and spiritual according to Paul.
And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
Do we participate in this with our obedience-you bet we do...
If Baptism is a work of merit Christ and his apostle were all deceivers and desiring that mankind not come to him. Your statement claims that the biblical accounts are wrong in the speaking of salvation and the obedient act of faith from mankind. No matter what spin you put on this your going against clear scripture. Daily sin is a man thing that boggles the mind as to how one can remain in Christ and also have a sin issue. Knowing that Christ sacrifice was the way of pardon only to those whom follow his commands in obedience to become a child does away with the concept of daily sin... Thought you would surely understand that, but you seem intend on going to all avenues of mans thoughts to object to clear teaching. Good luck with your theology and may God bring you to a clear understanding of his will and not mans.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#171 Jan 2, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means!
Absolutely true! However Jc, how do we receive forgiveness for daily sin? Paul is not saying "now that you have been saved grace/blood will stop covering your sin".
You are correct that repentance is not a work of merit. absolutely wrong saying that water baptism is not a work. Water baptism is a work of merit when done expecting salvation as a result/reward.
We have salvation from the penalty of sin as initial salvation/justification provides. Sanctification is the process where we have continued salvation from the power of sin because we have help from Christ in us.
Paul says this concerning glorification: 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
As a result, the glorified body is immortal imperishable, powerful, and spiritual according to Paul.
And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
Do we participate in this with our obedience-you bet we do...
Mark 16
14 Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them,“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Now according to you Christ was wrong here because this was commanded and is a work of Merit. I think they should correct this dont you????

Since: Dec 12

Royse City, TX

#172 Jan 2, 2013
Luke 20:4 - "Was the baptism of John from heaven or from men?"

The Baptism Jesus commissioned - Peter and the Apostles preached - from heaven or men?
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#173 Jan 2, 2013
Bobby believes anything Jesus and the apostles said that was in command mode is "the law" and has no bearing on requirement for salvation. He wrongly divides the word of truth.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#174 Jan 2, 2013
Bobby wrote:
God is not pleased when we get to a point that we deny the gospel of grace so vehemently that we begin to lose sight of our own sin.
Amen!

www.roysecitycoc.org
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#175 Jan 2, 2013
_Randy_ wrote:
Luke 20:4 - "Was the baptism of John from heaven or from men?"
The Baptism Jesus commissioned - Peter and the Apostles preached - from heaven or men?
God ordained water baptism but that does not make it salvific, that is what the cross is for.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#176 Jan 2, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
God ordained water baptism but that does not make it salvific, that is what the cross is for.
No but the fact Jesus said it was so does. He who believes and is baptized shall be saved- is that salvific enough?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#177 Jan 2, 2013
No that is not exactly what i believe. Anytime man uses obedience to any command/work as a means of his salvation he then becomes obligated to perfect obedience and even that does not reverse the penalty for past sins, one act beyond man's faith becomes a work. Water baptism is the symbol of our salvation not the cause of it.

Jesus Calls us to obedience. In Jesus Christ we find the perfect model of obedience. Obedience is an act of worship. True Christian obedience flows from a heart of gratitude for the grace we have received from the Lord but not as a means of our justification, because if it did we might as well throw in the towel. How could we possibly save ourselves with one act of obedience since disobedience got us into this fix. We cannot reverse our sin condition. Keep in mind Jesus did not need salvation, his perfect obedience is what pays the penalty for those of us who do.

The fullness of the sacrifice of Christ can only be grasped when we recognize the enormity of the condescension of God. He stepped down from his high place (throne) in heaven. He who had no sin became sin for us.

Could he have satisfied the righteous demands of the law if he had not died on our behalf?

Try telling Jesus that you obeyed in water baptism and now he owes you salvation!

The coc traditionally tie obedience to water baptism for initial salvation and continued obedience/stay prayed up in order to keep it. Justification sanctification and glorification-in that order.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#178 Jan 2, 2013
Jesus said obedience is an act of love.

John 15:9-15; "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing, but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you."

The good news of Jesus is love, and repentance to obedience is what love for God is - if we believe, love and obedience go hand in hand with the gospel and friendship with Y'shua.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#179 Jan 2, 2013
Why not abide in His love? Why not desire friendship with Him?
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#180 Jan 2, 2013
Bobby wrote:
No that is not exactly what i believe. Anytime man uses obedience to any command/work as a means of his salvation he then becomes obligated to perfect obedience and even that does not reverse the penalty for past sins, one act beyond man's faith becomes a work. Water baptism is the symbol of our salvation not the cause of it.
One act BEYOND man's faith?

*Faith in itself is a "work".
*Repentance, confession, & baptism are ALL inseparable parts of faith.
*Confusing acts of faith with works of the law again.
*NO ONE believes water baptism is the cause of salvation. Responding in faith to the gospel is- which consists of hearing and believing, confession, repentance, and baptism. Don't have those ingredients- don't have faith.
*You give lip service to grace- yet if one isn't in Christ, they don't have access into God's grace. We're saved by grace through faith- definition above.
New Guy

Morehead, KY

#181 Jan 2, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Try telling Jesus that you obeyed in water baptism and now he owes you salvation!
The coc traditionally tie obedience to water baptism for initial salvation and continued obedience/stay prayed up in order to keep it. Justification sanctification and glorification-in that order.
*Sentence 1- again with your coc background you know that not one person believes that. Another shameful post. Not one person teaches that. You're not dealing honestly with what we debate here.

*#2- Jesus and the apostles preached the necessity of baptism for salvation. Jesus Himself said "Be faithful unto death and I will give you the crown of life." Be UNfaithful unto death-think you'll receive the crown of life then? I don't like our chances if we think like that.

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