Thank you...to clarify;
The first comment you mention is quoted from the post I was replying to...his comment.
The second comment was mine in response to the quote directly above it...also from the post I was responding to. I was referencing carrying concealed.
Hope that helps.
Gov. Phil Bredesen on Tuesday vetoed legislation allowing Tennessee's estimated 270,000 handgun-carry permit holders go armed in restaurants, bars, museums and other establishments licensed to sell alcohol for on-premises consumption.
Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chattanooga Times Free Press.
Since: Apr 10
#85 Mar 17, 2012
#86 Mar 17, 2012
A Creeker & Marauder : I was afraid that someone who get on here & post nonsense to downgrade our discussion. I actually had dinner with my Father last evening & informed him of our conversation. First & foremost,(after reaching a new understanding from someone who has been in your shoes) I do feel the need to apologize to you both if I have offended your service to our country. I was informed that a soldier serves their direct commander & on up the line (obviously knew this, but let the topic get the best of me) & regardless of his/her view on a certain mission or war the goal if for the greater good. I stated this earlier: goals for the greater good of man. My opinion, just as a soldier, matters not in this context. I was also corrected in the fact that while I may know "stories" of war, I have no idea or experience myself & should not be so judgmental. Another eye opener was brought to my attention: ALL soldiers who experience battle come back with wounds, thing is that some of the worst injuries are the ones society cannot see & these are the mental injuries. I was also re-informed of how lucky I have been to grow up in an area where these threats of violence are extremely minimal & that I have lived a "sheltered" life when it comes to violence. This was indeed my Fathers intentions based on his experiences with the atrocities of war. I do understand that both of your experiences are why you think & feel the way you do & by me simply posting a few words & view points I am in fact being small minded myself to think I can change your perspective. I do stick to my rationale & beliefs toward the right to bear arms however. I can only see the bad that can happen & am thinking in the "loss prevention" attitude. Again, with both of your experience, this may seem ignorant to facts. I will remain an optimist & chose to live my life this way. As a father of young children myself, I may indeed have to change my thought process one day. I do say stick to your personal beliefs, but be smart enough & open minded enough to realize if facts are presented then maybe I need to analyze & make new decisions based on these facts. Why do I have the right to think on my own & make my own decisions? A soldier provided this right to me as an American. I have always looked at those who fight with weapons as cowards, but I have never seen a warzone & should never call a soldier a coward. I will agree to disagree on the topic to bear arms for all Americans, but I seriously do enjoy reading both your sides of the argument. I am always willing to listen to "that of which I do not agree" if I feel that I will come out of the conversation more intelligent than before. I will say that I feel that I have learned from our discussion & for this I am thankful. If I am going to budge at all for the greater good, then I feel that the training, testing, back ground checks, & licensing should be very strict in order to carry a concealed weapon at ANY TIME.
#87 Mar 17, 2012
Sorry, I could not refuse an attempt to make another point. I feel that our conversation has been a good one & an important one. With this said, we still had a few who had to get on here in an attempt to cause problems or stir up [email protected] What was their weapon of choice: an attack on our heritage, a stereotype. Why? this provokes emotions to get involved & defenses are raised much quicker promoting an offensive response. What if these same types of Americans are able to carry a concealed weapon & it is simply in their being to be mean spirited, controlling, and full of bad intentions. They have no intelligent input & due to this, frustration sets in because nobody is willing to acknowledge them.(Not quoting facts) What I have read & studied with some horrors in American History, dealing directly with guns, these type of individuals will get their attention in harming others. They do indeed "level the playing field" by obtaining a weapon with the intentions for nothing but violence & harm. Sure, we could be armed & defend others if we as individuals felt the need. However, would that not be Vigilante justice which is deemed illegal? There are simply too many individuals hell bent on harm and destruction to allow every American the right to bear arms. Yes, I know, this is my opinion. It is mine & does belong to me, however.
#88 Mar 17, 2012
The "WRONG PEOPLE" is always a risk in a free society. There is no test, training, background check, or law that can foresee who will and who will not abuse a right. Free speech has allowed groups like KKK, Skinheads, and Black Panthers to exist in this country but I am sure you don't want to have to get a permit, get training, have a background check before using your free speech. Freedom of religion has allowed many not so well intentioned people to take advantage and cause the deaths of many of their followers but do you want training, testing, permits, and background checks before attending any religious function? What you may call (with your free speech) "vigilante justice" some people call self defense. People are animals always have been and always will be. It is just nature that some are more dangerous than others. Innocent people have been killed long before guns and would still be prayed upon without guns. Arms just at least gives all an equal chance during a confrontation.
Since: Apr 10
#89 Mar 17, 2012
Your last two post were great, always remember that there will be people who will defend you right to express your thoughts.
I have also learned a lot from posting on this thread, I really had to some serious research to make sure I was correct in the information I was posting and I learned to accept the right of some other point of view even if I didn't agree with it!
For that I Thank-You!
One thing I will never try to do is change someone's mind, but I will try to sow a few seeds of information that might help a person to think and do some of their own research and make up their own mind!
Though there are people will think that the Constitution is written by a bunch of dead old white men and that the Constitution is out of date, if a person really reads the Constitution they will find that it is still a great set of rules!
Most people that I know who have a conceal carry permit are the type of people who:
1. Do not want to go to jail.
2. Are level headed people.
3. Don't put themselves in a position where they will have to shoot someone.
As to the people who you worry about getting a carry and conceal permit, the odds are they're already carry guns that they acquired illegally and they don't even need to try to get a conceal carry permit!
The bad guys have and always will be able to get weapons no matter how hard the law tries to stop them from getting them.
There will always be trolls who post just to get an angry response from people; I know because I have fallen in that trap myself!
All you can do is laugh at their weak attempt to get an angry response from you!
At first I would post things that I now regret, I realized that I was no better then they were and now I try to make them look stupid by posting a well thought out response to their negative post!
#90 Mar 17, 2012
Thank you for your intelligent, well thought out and articulated response on your position. No apologies required when an individual does exchange information rationally and with an open mind to be receptive and understand another point of view. We can agree to disagree as necessary without resorting to the “frustrated” exchanges as we have both seen and experienced.
I can understand your father's position in raising a family in an area that provides a feeling of comfort and security away from some of society’s evils. I respect that, that is what a father should do to protect his family in the manner he feels appropriate. But as you know, that doesn't eliminate the threats that others continue to face.
There are those that are working hard to remove guns from our society, eliminate specific types of guns, have already made "gun free zones" that only eliminate guns from the law abiding person...not the criminal...and as you know, "gun free zones" aren't when a criminal starts shooting...there are just people that can't defend themselves. All this will do is give the criminals a "safer work environment"...one where they will use their guns against the unarmed victims. My reference to “leveling the playing field” is for the armed law abiding person against those criminals intent on doing harm…not for arming criminals.
Did you read or hear of the widowed 18 year old mother that was on the phone with 911 for over 20 minutes waiting for police as 2 drug crazed criminals broke into her home...? This was on New Years day in Oklahoma. She killed the first intruder with a single shot from her deceased husbands shotgun and the other fled and is now being held on murder charges in the death of his partner.
I did find this an interesting comment of yours;
“I can only see the bad that can happen & am thinking in the "loss prevention" attitude. Again, with both of your experience, this may seem ignorant to facts.”
I see that more as a result of the mass media reporting then your ignorance. That is what they want you to think but the fact remains that violent crime is down and accidental shootings are down as responsible gun ownership increases. It’s rare that you will here of the defensive uses of guns in the media unless it becomes a high profile story like an 18 year old widowed mother with her baby in one arm and a shotgun in the other.
I appreciate you talking with your father and receiving some enlightenment and apparent change in thinking regarding the military. I would also like for you to thank him for me for his service to our country.
#91 Mar 18, 2012
My purpose & intent when I jumped into this conversation was to get a better understanding with the fascination of having the Constitutional right to walk around with a "concealed weapon" on his/her person.
Did you read or hear of the widowed 18 year old mother that was on the phone with 911 for over 20 minutes waiting for police as 2 drug crazed criminals broke into her home...? This was on New Years day in Oklahoma. She killed the first intruder with a single shot from her deceased husbands shotgun and the other fled and is now being held on murder charges in the death of his partner. STATES MARAUDER
--->I am not attempting to downplay your rationale or the importance of the outcome on your stated story. However, I feel that we would eventually come to a 50/50 draw with historical instances. I am sure that we could both find stories of where the outcome could have been better or worse if a gun was readily available. I could state something as silly & trivial as the Plaxico Burress story. A Pro WR shoots himself in the leg (his most valuable asset) & looses precious time in his life for basically not being responsible for his sidearm. The true seriousness of the story: Thank GOD no innocent people were harmed due to his momentary stupidity.
#92 Mar 18, 2012
I also took the time to look up the Global Peace Index statistics to see if I could obtain some information to give me "concrete" factual support with my debate. The problem is (well at least from my viewpoint on the issue) that it does indeed support both A Creeker & Marauder viewpoints.
The research team was headed by The Economist Intelligence Unit in conjunction with academics and experts in the field of peace. They measured countries' peacefulness based on wide range of indicators, 23 TO BE EXACT. I will not list all, my focus for this debate was the following: Ease of access to small arms and light weapons, Number of heavy weapons available, Level of violent crime,
Number of civilians per 100 own arms.
==========What I found: U.S.A. ranked pretty low at 82, American civilian per 100 who own arms 88.8, level of violent crime somewhat high, we know our military is well armed with heavy weapons, Ease of access to firearms was high.
==========However, the statistics are somewhat skewed at best. The Economist, in publishing the index, admitted that, "the index will run into some flak." Specifically, according to The Economist, the weighting of military expenditure "may seem to give heart to freeloaders: countries that enjoy peace precisely because others (often the USA) care for their defense." The true utility of the index may lie not in its specific rankings of countries now, but in how those rankings change over time, thus tracking when and how countries become more or less peaceful.--------->A CREEKER, I now understand your foreign "ingrate" statement a little better.
==========The countries that rank as the most peaceful are indeed the ones who have the fewest firearms & overall availability. These countries are also afforded these luxuries of peace because the U.S.A. is defending them at all times. So, the U.S.A. is figuratively the weapon that "levels the playing field" for these countries as well. I believe every American knows who ranks in last place: 146.Pakistan, 147.Russia,148.Congo, 149.North Korea, 150.Afghanistan, 151.Sudan, 152.Iraq, 153.Somalia
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