King's legacy still cause of debate

King's legacy still cause of debate

There are 1090 comments on the USA Today story from Jan 19, 2014, titled King's legacy still cause of debate. In it, USA Today reports that:

It is a large legacy that looms over the past five decades, from the prophetic "I Have a Dream" speech delivered during the March on Washington to his last campaign taking a stand for underpaid black sanitation workers in Memphis, the city where he was slain.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at USA Today.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#1085 Jul 13, 2014
IN the final analysis King, the revolutionary Christian and socialist, affirmed his solidarity with the disinherited and the dispossessed, with the exploited and oppressed.
In that respect he was like the Hebrew prophets Isaiah and Amos.

Insect Trust

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#1086 Jul 13, 2014
Savant wrote:
IN the final analysis King, the revolutionary Christian and socialist, affirmed his solidarity with the disinherited and the dispossessed, with the exploited and oppressed.
In that respect he was like the Hebrew prophets Isaiah and Amos.
Though I'm not a Christian or Jew, I would dare say that Dr. King was in fact a prophet in that same tradition. You the agnostic say "like" the Hebrew prophets, I the pagan/Hindu say he WAS one.

As I continue (to my psychological detriment) to follow U$A politics, I am acutely aware of how necessary is the consciousness represented and manifested by Dr. King and his followers and how urgent is the necessity to

KEEP THE FAITH!!!

(PS. IGNORE that f'ing Abdul freak. He is a coward who often ignores those with whom he cannot contend...e.g. a certain Barros Serrano... and he f's with you out of some obsession with black intellectuals---hate hates them---but he has nothing to say against your impeccable logic so, sir, I respectfully opine that you are wasting time and enabling Abdul's derailment of your threads when you even read his goddam posts.)

Since: Aug 09

Minneapolis, MN

#1087 Jul 13, 2014
Savant wrote:
IN the final analysis King, the revolutionary Christian and socialist, affirmed his solidarity with the disinherited and the dispossessed, with the exploited and oppressed.
In that respect he was like the Hebrew prophets Isaiah and Amos.
Now, Isaiah and Amos (Sal Alayhi wa Salam) were socialists. Okay I see your point. But they were not socialist in the modern sense of the word, although I am glad to see that you have enough sense to respect Prophesy. For example, Nkrumah was a socialist. As such he saw the similarities between Traditional African collectivism and communalism on the one hand and modern scientific socialism on the other hand. Likewise I do not think you ought to confuse Ancient Hebrew, Christian or Islamic communalism and c collectivism with modern scientific socialism. I think that confuses people and gives them an excuse not to embrace scientific socialism, and especially not Nkrumahism. We do not want that to happen in people's minds.

But I can see how you are confusion what MLK believed in and socialism. I may not know MLK's thought well enough to be 100% sure about this. But, I never thought of him as socialist. That was a serious defect in his thinking, as far as I am concerned. I saw MLK's thinking as being absolutely identical to that of Holy Prophets Isaiah and Jesus (I know very little about Amos)(Sal Alayhi wa Salam). But none of them were modern socialists. However had they lived in modern times, it is very likely that would have embraced modern socialism. Therefore, to give people an excuse to avoid modern socialism is in fact a way to guide them away from what Prophesy is really all about.

For example, as a Muslim, I have already indicated that I agree with Isaiah. But Islam goes much further and embrace All of GODs Prophets and reject none of them. Thus all the principles and axioms revealed by GOD through Holy Prophet Muhammad (Sal Alayhi wa Salam) forerunners to modern socialism. However, I think it is re3actionary for a modern Islamist to impose the Sunnah absolutely, strictly and identical to what was done under any of the prophets, including Muhammad. Nkriumahism allows us to remain committed to al-Sunnah while embracing modern socialism. For example, one of the n=biggest shortcomings of al-Shabab in Somalia is their failure to advocate or implement modern development programs that would increase food production and prevent recurring famine. I see similar shortcomings in all of the Islamist movements around the world.

But I am a Muslim. At the same time, like Nkrumah, I work diligently to reclaim for example the Sahara Desert by bringing in irrigation waters from just below the surface. GOD gave mankind a brain to solve such problems and ingenuity to implement such solutions. So I would say to al-Shabab that the best way to win in Somalia is to implement projects to increase food production. It is notable that the opposition has also failed to do anything about increasing food production. But that was a top priority for Nkrumah and Abdel Nasser and Qaddafi. But a reactionary and stupid and evil POS like Obama actually bombed the Great Man Made River. And He gave orders to block food shipments to Shabab controlled areas of Somalia. As a result, 260,00 Somalis starved to death, most of them little babies under the age of five.

Since: Aug 09

Minneapolis, MN

#1088 Jul 13, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Is the left useful in helping African people solve their problems? We can debate that. But I suspect that a good number of African leftists think (or thought) so. Men like Nkrumah, Nyerere, Fanon, Cabral and others. And AA leftists like Dr. King, post-Mecca Malcolm X, Paul Robeson, Kwame Ture thought so.
And most of what Africans and African-Americans have achieved has been done under the leadership and in movements tat were at least moderately left-of-center.
Left is not the issue in Africa. If you say "left" that confuses things with liberalism and sorry asssss European socialism. That is not what we are about. Nyerre was, of course. Nut Nkrumah, Fanon, Cabral and Lumumba were definitely not.

First of we need to look at what Nyerre actually did. Nyerrre took small farms away from the original owners and packaged them into large plots and actually gave them to big Canadian Corporations while forcing the small farmers off their land. This is what that fool called African socialism. I am against that and Nkrumah was definitely against that. That is what Nkriumah was dealing with in Consciencism when he said he was a Marxian socialist. He wanted us to be absolutely clear that he was not an African socialist such as Nyerre and his evil program. Under Nkrumah, we NEVER took land from small farmers under the pretext of Soviet collective farms. NEVER. But even if we had done that, we would have NEVER given that land to Canadian companies. That was very serious. And Tanzania is still suffering from it. Tanzania is one of the poorest and least developed countries in Africa. It is a dam disgrace to this day.

Under Nkrumah we built the Volta River Dam. This provided energy foe modern industry and irrigation to increase food production on the farms. In addition, we brought in modern technology such as Tuskegee University to set up agricultural extension programs to go into the countryside and teach farmers new and modern techniques to improve production. We brought in such things as better seeds and better breeding stocks. Plus, we used their products in our own domestic industries. For example, we built a shoe factory that used animal skins that our own farmers produced to make shoes in Africa, modern shoes for the first time. That provided an additional stream of money into the pockets of our farmers. We did not take the land from the farmers, much less give it to a foreign power structure. Nyerre was darkness, Nkrumahism is enlightenment. Nyerre was a straight our idiot. Every time I have to deal with that fool, I get angry as hell that he was able to get away with his stupidity. But it was the British who propped him up with "foreign aid to Africa." "Aid" was very small price to pay for the best farming lands in Africa

Since: Aug 09

Minneapolis, MN

#1089 Jul 13, 2014
Another thing about Nyerre is this. He kept the British in East Africa. Thereby they financed his war on Uganda. And this in turn contributed to the collapse of the central government in Somalia. All of this contributed to the genocide in Rwanda. Right now, it is British and American imperialism that has kept Somalia in a state of constant war for nearly 25 years. I can provide details to clarify this if you need details. Nyerre is the source of all of he instability we now see in East Africa, Sudan and the Horn of Africa. I call him Uncle Julius

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#1090 Jul 13, 2014
Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>
Though I'm not a Christian or Jew, I would dare say that Dr. King was in fact a prophet in that same tradition. You the agnostic say "like" the Hebrew prophets, I the pagan/Hindu say he WAS one.
As I continue (to my psychological detriment) to follow U$A politics, I am acutely aware of how necessary is the consciousness represented and manifested by Dr. King and his followers and how urgent is the necessity to
KEEP THE FAITH!!!
(PS. IGNORE that f'ing Abdul freak. He is a coward who often ignores those with whom he cannot contend...e.g. a certain Barros Serrano... and he f's with you out of some obsession with black intellectuals---hate hates them---but he has nothing to say against your impeccable logic so, sir, I respectfully opine that you are wasting time and enabling Abdul's derailment of your threads when you even read his goddam posts.)

Despite some of my friendly criticisms of friend and brother philosopher Cornel West, I basically agree with his argument in DEMOCRACY MATTERS: WINNING THE FIGHT AGAINST IMPERIALISM, that the prophetic tradition is the primary source of what is still progressive, revolutionary and liberating in the three Abrahamic religions. This is the part of the tradition that inspired King, that inspired the Abolitionist movement, that inspired El Salvador's Bishop Oscar Romero.
And notwithstanding my own markedly secular perspective, it was the prophetic tradition in the form of what Rufus Burrows call "homespun African American Social Gospelism", learned from my mother, that first awakened my social conscience as a child--a conscience that remains awakened even if in a more secular form.
So, despite my skepticism, I do not simply dismiss any and everything a religion holds.
While even the prophetic tradition--as I fold West in person and in an essay on his book--has its own flaws, it may be an important part of the democratic tradition, the whole quest for social justice, and a force that may help hurl back barbarous assault of religious fundamentalism. And as I said on the Marc Steiner show here in Bmore, I'm willing to work with Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and whoever else is willing to join--not in fratricidal religious wars--but in righteous struggles for social justice.

Since: Aug 09

Minneapolis, MN

#1091 Jul 13, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Despite some of my friendly criticisms of friend and brother philosopher Cornel West, I basically agree with his argument in DEMOCRACY MATTERS: WINNING THE FIGHT AGAINST IMPERIALISM, that the prophetic tradition is the primary source of what is still progressive, revolutionary and liberating in the three Abrahamic religions. This is the part of the tradition that inspired King, that inspired the Abolitionist movement, that inspired El Salvador's Bishop Oscar Romero.
And notwithstanding my own markedly secular perspective, it was the prophetic tradition in the form of what Rufus Burrows call "homespun African American Social Gospelism", learned from my mother, that first awakened my social conscience as a child--a conscience that remains awakened even if in a more secular form.
So, despite my skepticism, I do not simply dismiss any and everything a religion holds.
While even the prophetic tradition--as I fold West in person and in an essay on his book--has its own flaws, it may be an important part of the democratic tradition, the whole quest for social justice, and a force that may help hurl back barbarous assault of religious fundamentalism. And as I said on the Marc Steiner show here in Bmore, I'm willing to work with Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and whoever else is willing to join--not in fratricidal religious wars--but in righteous struggles for social justice.
Sad to say, but I have to be honest: you have a lot to learn and a lot of growing and maturing to do. Read Nkrumah and the primary sources. I hope to spend the remainder of my life in the primary sources. Hopefully I will fins something that the rest of you will find worthy.
Timothy

Norfolk, VA

#1093 Jul 15, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Is the left useful in helping African people solve their problems? We can debate that. But I suspect that a good number of African leftists think (or thought) so. Men like Nkrumah, Nyerere, Fanon, Cabral and others. And AA leftists like Dr. King, post-Mecca Malcolm X, Paul Robeson, Kwame Ture thought so.
And most of what Africans and African-Americans have achieved has been done under the leadership and in movements tat were at least moderately left-of-center.
I agree with you. Also, it is for some hilarious to assume that Obama is a radical leftist. LOL. He is a centrist to put it kindly. Neoliberal pro-Wall Street policies, imperial foreign policies, and a moderate health care law (which is not a single payer law) is hardly leftist. Enjoy your day Brother.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#1095 Jul 16, 2014
Timothy wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with you. Also, it is for some hilarious to assume that Obama is a radical leftist. LOL. He is a centrist to put it kindly. Neoliberal pro-Wall Street policies, imperial foreign policies, and a moderate health care law (which is not a single payer law) is hardly leftist. Enjoy your day Brother.
They even think Obama is a Marxist or a "Marxist Muslim"! LOL! And the American Right wonders why us REAL leftists, and even liberals, feel so superior to them. Even European conservatives feels superior to their conservative American cousins.

At any rate, Dr. King was a man of the left, and anti-imperialist and democratic socialist, and with a definite streak of Pan-Africanist and pro-Third World liberations sentiments as well.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#1096 Jul 16, 2014
Insect Trust wrote:
<quoted text>
Though I'm not a Christian or Jew, I would dare say that Dr. King was in fact a prophet in that same tradition. You the agnostic say "like" the Hebrew prophets, I the pagan/Hindu say he WAS one.
As I continue (to my psychological detriment) to follow U$A politics, I am acutely aware of how necessary is the consciousness represented and manifested by Dr. King and his followers and how urgent is the necessity to
KEEP THE FAITH!!!
(PS. IGNORE that f'ing Abdul freak. He is a coward who often ignores those with whom he cannot contend...e.g. a certain Barros Serrano... and he f's with you out of some obsession with black intellectuals---hate hates them---but he has nothing to say against your impeccable logic so, sir, I respectfully opine that you are wasting time and enabling Abdul's derailment of your threads when you even read his goddam posts.)
Interesting you say "Keep the Faith" while arguing that Dr. King was a prophet. In his 1993 work called KEEPING FAITH, Cornel West describes Dr. King as " the MAJOR American PROPHET of this century..." (p. 272) as well as "black leader of the 1960s." Rabbi Heschel described him as the "Isaiah" of the 20th Century. Oh America, America. You who slayeth the prophets!
In my mother's house King was next to god. And I hear that in a predominantly Black Catholic church in East Baltimore, the priest would invoke the name of King as one of the saints, though King wasn't even Catholic.
The prophetic tradition, as Cornel West argues, is a tradition of moral protest and witness on behalf of justice for the oppressed. If only there were more believer within the Abrahamic tradition committed to the prophetic call for justice!

Insect Trust

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#1097 Jul 16, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text> Interesting you say "Keep the Faith" while arguing that Dr. King was a prophet. In his 1993 work called KEEPING FAITH, Cornel West describes Dr. King as " the MAJOR American PROPHET of this century..." (p. 272) as well as "black leader of the 1960s." Rabbi Heschel described him as the "Isaiah" of the 20th Century. Oh America, America. You who slayeth the prophets!
In my mother's house King was next to god. And I hear that in a predominantly Black Catholic church in East Baltimore, the priest would invoke the name of King as one of the saints, though King wasn't even Catholic.
The prophetic tradition, as Cornel West argues, is a tradition of moral protest and witness on behalf of justice for the oppressed. If only there were more believer within the Abrahamic tradition committed to the prophetic call for justice!
Amen!

Since: Aug 09

Minneapolis, MN

#1098 Jul 16, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text> They even think Obama is a Marxist or a "Marxist Muslim"! LOL! And the American Right wonders why us REAL leftists, and even liberals, feel so superior to them. Even European conservatives feels superior to their conservative American cousins.
At any rate, Dr. King was a man of the left, and anti-imperialist and democratic socialist, and with a definite streak of Pan-Africanist and pro-Third World liberations sentiments as well.
You are a liar. You cannot prove any of that revisionist crap you just attributed to MLK.

Since: Aug 09

Minneapolis, MN

#1099 Jul 16, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text> Interesting you say "Keep the Faith" while arguing that Dr. King was a prophet. In his 1993 work called KEEPING FAITH, Cornel West describes Dr. King as " the MAJOR American PROPHET of this century..." (p. 272) as well as "black leader of the 1960s." Rabbi Heschel described him as the "Isaiah" of the 20th Century. Oh America, America. You who slayeth the prophets!
In my mother's house King was next to god. And I hear that in a predominantly Black Catholic church in East Baltimore, the priest would invoke the name of King as one of the saints, though King wasn't even Catholic.
The prophetic tradition, as Cornel West argues, is a tradition of moral protest and witness on behalf of justice for the oppressed. If only there were more believer within the Abrahamic tradition committed to the prophetic call for justice!
Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) was the LAST prophet. MLK may have been a visionary leader, one among many. But he was not a prophet. And you offend every Muslim on earth to tell such a lie, especially during the Holy Moth of Ramadan.

You are a dangerous idiot. 8787. By calling MLK a "prophet" you create a false cult around him. Tell; West I said so. I do not like that at all.

Insect Trust

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#1100 Jul 16, 2014
Abdurratln wrote:
Another thing about Nyerre is this. He kept the British in East Africa. Thereby they financed his war on Uganda. And this in turn contributed to the collapse of the central government in Somalia. All of this contributed to the genocide in Rwanda. Right now, it is British and American imperialism that has kept Somalia in a state of constant war for nearly 25 years. I can provide details to clarify this if you need details. Nyerre is the source of all of he instability we now see in East Africa, Sudan and the Horn of Africa. I call him Uncle Julius
Dubious claims. It was the British whose manipulations put Amin into power, to replace the “Marxist” Obote. U$A-USSR power plays trashed Somalia. To blame this on Nyerere is absurd.

And yes he WAS a socialist.“Ujamaa” is usually translated as “African socialism”.

With population relocation schemes Nyerere made some mistakes in attempting to develop Tanzania, but to paint him as a British stooge is not warranted.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#1102 Jul 18, 2014
Abdurratln wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a liar. You cannot prove any of that revisionist crap you just attributed to MLK.
Yawn. I've done research on this, and Assdurratin has not. The King Papers and the work of numerous King scholars support my claims.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#1103 Jul 18, 2014
Abdurratln wrote:
<quoted text>
Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) was the LAST prophet. MLK may have been a visionary leader, one among many. But he was not a prophet. And you offend every Muslim on earth to tell such a lie, especially during the Holy Moth of Ramadan.
You are a dangerous idiot. 8787. By calling MLK a "prophet" you create a false cult around him. Tell; West I said so. I do not like that at all.
I won't debate Assdurratin regarding the dogmas of his faith.I can simply point out that claiming Mohammed was the last prophet is as pointless to a non-believer as it is for a Christian to insist that Jesus was divine or a son of god.
Cornel West,, Abraham Heschel and other many other religious people do think that Dr. King was a prophet; and their belief is informed by their religious convictions--convictions which I do not share.
But if we can speak of the prophet as a social type, or a person pursuing a mission, then even without religious convictions I can agree that King fit the type or kind of person one can call a prophet.
I also think that West is right that at least in societies in which one of the Abrahamic traditions is the majority faith, the prophetic tradition within that Abrahamic religion. Yes, even some Muslims may fit that description--like Abdul Ghaffer Khan of India, probably many of those clerics who supported who supported Mossadegh, etc.
I suspect that in countries whose religion is not predominantly Abrahamic, there are equivalents of the prophets. I know that India has an ancient philosophical tradition preceding the Greeks (though convention has it that Greece INVENTED philosophy), I suspect she also has he own prophets. Gandhi seems to be such a person. But I know far less about Hindu or Budhists traditions. So, I can't be sure

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#1104 Jul 18, 2014
Gary wrote:
<quoted text>
Meanwhile, in almost every state where Republicans are in control they
are busy trying to come up with ways to keep African Americans from
excercising their most basic right, the right to vote.
Yeah, Republicans are really looking out for them. To make sure that they
remain second-class citizens.
Alan West? Wasn't he booted out of the Army?
Yea he was booted out!

Since: Aug 09

Minneapolis, MN

#1105 Jul 18, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Yawn. I've done research on this, and Assdurratin has not. The King Papers and the work of numerous King scholars support my claims.
Idiot, I am an expert of over 40 years intimate experience in all aspects of the African Freedom Movement aka Civil Rights Movement. I do not need to do "research" I have lived and led it.

Since: Aug 09

Minneapolis, MN

#1106 Jul 18, 2014
And yes, as a historian, African history specialist, I have studied and researched all aspects of the Movement. I do not get caught up in and bogged down and confused in rhetoric like this, especially not faulty rhetoric and lies. My mind is trained and conditioned to base all political historical claims on document evidence, not on gossip and rumors. If you cannot show me where MLK said thus and such in thus and such speech or document, it is my duty to reject your claim or at least take it with a grain of salt. But in "Savant's", given the lousy and questionable history of the intellectuals at Howard University such as Chancellor Williams, and given that I have patiently informed him of his reasoning defects, I must call him a liar and pervert. People like these, Savant, Williams Rashidi, have no legitimate place in intelligentsia. I do not like mentioning Rasdhidi's name in this context because he has done some extremely valuable and important research in African history. I respect that work. At the same time his integrity is compromised and sullied by his association with Chancellor Williams. I do not think Rashidi has the courage or integrity to criticize Williams. But all honest historians MUST CRITICIZE the huge and major defects in the research methodology and writings or Williams. That would serve the African Nation by de-legitimatizing Williams and reducing the number of books he is selling from the grave. I refuse to mention the stupid name of that very stupid book that Williams wrote

Since: Aug 09

Minneapolis, MN

#1107 Jul 18, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
I won't debate Assdurratin regarding the dogmas of his faith.I can simply point out that claiming Mohammed was the last prophet is as pointless to a non-believer as it is for a Christian to insist that Jesus was divine or a son of god.
Cornel West,, Abraham Heschel and other many other religious people do think that Dr. King was a prophet; and their belief is informed by their religious convictions--convictions which I do not share.
But if we can speak of the prophet as a social type, or a person pursuing a mission, then even without religious convictions I can agree that King fit the type or kind of person one can call a prophet.
You have defined merely a minister and preacher and not a prophet. That is confusion and it is cult and from an Islamic perspective an act of war against GOD. This is a very serious matter. and as a teacher, I would expect you to show respect to the huge majority of humanity who BELIEVE. I really do not care what a pathetic idiot and liar like you believe or think as long as you keep it private. But this is public space, the public arena if you will. And in this arena all religions have a voice, not just a bunch idiotic atheists, secularists, and evil cultists.
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>I also think that West is right that at least in societies in which one of the Abrahamic traditions is the majority faith, the prophetic tradition within that Abrahamic religion.
Okay. Now lets clear this up. The Jews could not deny that the man who led them from slavery was directed to do so by GOD Almighty. Non of the Three Great Monotheistic Religions reject Moses (Sal Alayhi wa Salam) as a prophet. It states in the Bible that history has known no other man who spoke to GOD face to face in that manner. And speaking face to face with GOD, the Freedom to Slaves had to be an Essential Message. Holy Prophet Muhammad (Sal Alayhi wa Salam) was a prophet LIKE MOSES. But not EXACTLY like. GOD appeared top Moses as a Burning Bush. But angel brought GOD's Message to Muhammad. And Its was Exactly the Same Message that Moses received: Free the Slaves.
Muhammad was not a prophet like Jesus. Jesus said he came to fulfill The Law, not reject it or undermine it. But most people did not and do not see that Jesus's Message was dialectically linked to Muhammad's Message. They are two sides to the same coin. In Moses' Message, the slave masters were drowned as they attempted to recapture the slaves, the paddy rollers as they were. VIOLENCE big time. But in Jesus's Message, the emphasis is on love of humanity. Why cannot people see that love of humanity means anti-slavery? Anyone who attacks Islam or Judaism and claim to be a Believer is a liar . Islam's First Acts were to Free Slaves. But because we did not do it violently as in revolution or civil was as in the USA, people claim that Islam condoned slavery, an obvious lie. No Monotheist aka Lover of humanity can condone slavery.

But the Christians did in the Holy Roman Empire. Do not even bother to debate it. Again, this is obvious and undeniable history. Rome was built on the back's of slaves. And every brick was cemented with the blood, sweat and tears of slaves. How can THAT be "holy"? It is not. And it is not Monotheism.

After Jesus (Sal Alayhi wa Salam) returned to heaven, the Christians got all confused and thought that going to heaven deified Jesus. By their thinking, this made Jesus GOD or a god. Duh? Is there more than one god in Monotheism? Of course not. But there is a GOD already heaven in heaven. Now that Jesus is up there with him, he must be a god too. Right? Well, eerrrr, naw, not quite. Jesus is only a SON of GOD. See, his mama Mary was a virgin mother. Huh? So that means GOD was his daddy. What? Wow!!!! Incredible!!! GOD was a dead beat dad who got a 13 year old b=virgin pregnant and did not even marry her. Ya don't say.

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