King's legacy still cause of debate

King's legacy still cause of debate

There are 1090 comments on the USA Today story from Jan 19, 2014, titled King's legacy still cause of debate. In it, USA Today reports that:

It is a large legacy that looms over the past five decades, from the prophetic "I Have a Dream" speech delivered during the March on Washington to his last campaign taking a stand for underpaid black sanitation workers in Memphis, the city where he was slain.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at USA Today.

fingiswold

Newark, OH

#355 Jan 25, 2014
Abdurratln wrote:
<quoted text>
I am anti-liberal Dummycrat because the liberals have always done so much to harm Africans. Liberals were the main instigators of the East Saint Louis riots and many other Jim Crow initiatives. Read history. One of the more recent liberal crimes against Africans was the lynching of Qaddafi. And I will not forget and forgive.
You're completely screwy, is what you are. Ghadafi was one of the worst dictators of the last 60 years.

No one cares what you "forgive," weirdo.

“bar0ckalypse n0w”

Since: Mar 10

Location hidden

#357 Jan 25, 2014
fingiswold wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything you say here is a pathetic, laughable lie.
Reagan was mentally incompetent, and his administration the most corrupt in modern history. He had more aides, appointees, etc. either investigated, fired, resigned, charged, or convicted of misdeeds that ANY other modern President.
FDR was the greatest President since Lincoln, and we all know that the New Deal sped recovery from the Great Depression (brought on by reTHUGlicans and their Wall St. buddies just like the LAST recession) every year of his Presidency. Why do your kind even bother to lie about commonly-known facts, eh?
Cold War didn't come about because of FDR or voting out imperialist tool Churchill. It came about because of the growing power of the Soviet Union, which helped us beat the Germans.
Jesus H. Kee-rist, you are both dumb AND dishonest.
Reagan was re-elected in the biggest landslide in American history. His epic achievements are monuments in both economic and political science texts worldwide. It is barock who will be laughed at like the peanut farmer and LBJ.

The New Deal spurred very little.

Learn to read. I said the end of WW2 was negotiated badly by the allies. I attribute it FDR's frailty and the Brits electing clement atlee in place of Churchill. This doomed half of Europe and N Korea to more than half a century of socialist darkness.

Ish Tov

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#358 Jan 26, 2014
mjjcpa wrote:
<quoted text>
I immediately knew you were a psycho when you threatened me over your losing an argument. This post confirms it.
I read history books. I watch almost all the news channels, but prefer C SPAN.
You were obviously brainwashed in some cuban or north korean prison camp.
Mr. Putin, tear down ischmuck's camp!
It is impossible for me to lose an argument to a connedservative, boy, since you have nothing but lies and cliches you learned from Rush, O'Reilly, Coulter, et al.

You're obviously a fascist ideologue and enemy of freedom, boy. Thanks to YOUR connedservativism, the U$A is a 2nd-tier $hithole compared to the rest of the developed world.

You're a traitor, boy.

“I support Cystic Fibrosis.”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#359 Jan 26, 2014
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
It is impossible for me to lose an argument to a connedservative, boy, since you have nothing but lies and cliches you learned from Rush, O'Reilly, Coulter, et al.
You're obviously a fascist ideologue and enemy of freedom, boy. Thanks to YOUR connedservativism, the U$A is a 2nd-tier $hithole compared to the rest of the developed world.
You're a traitor, boy.
Blacks had Moorish kings in Europe. Their statues are still in Europe.

“bar0ckalypse n0w”

Since: Mar 10

Location hidden

#360 Jan 26, 2014
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
It is impossible for me to lose an argument to a connedservative, boy, since you have nothing but lies and cliches you learned from Rush, O'Reilly, Coulter, et al.
You're obviously a fascist ideologue and enemy of freedom, boy. Thanks to YOUR connedservativism, the U$A is a 2nd-tier $hithole compared to the rest of the developed world.
You're a traitor, boy.
You just lost, girl.

I don't listen to Rush. I told you I read history books and prefer C SPAN over almost any other channels. I could edit some of the new history channel docs.

There's no question parts of America are seriously neglected. The financial channels regularly poke fun of our airports as looking like they are from an episode of Mad Men. Our trains go slow, and still de-rail. Our bridges are falling into the water from rust.

It's not because we don't tax enough. It's because crooked corruptocrats are beholden to mafia run labor unions.

NYC was once a thriving harbor. The longshoremen's union put an end to that.

I could fix the whole mess yesterday. I'd have the IRS prepare (de facto audit) all tax returns of all Federal, State and Local employees, and all elected officials, their families and business partners. This way charlie rangel won't have to lie about stealing 4 rent-controlled apts. from little old ladies. They could no longer hide all the bribes they take.

Ish Tov

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#361 Jan 26, 2014
mjjcpa wrote:
<quoted text>
You just lost, girl.
I don't listen to Rush. I told you I read history books and prefer C SPAN over almost any other channels. I could edit some of the new history channel docs.
There's no question parts of America are seriously neglected. The financial channels regularly poke fun of our airports as looking like they are from an episode of Mad Men. Our trains go slow, and still de-rail. Our bridges are falling into the water from rust.
It's not because we don't tax enough. It's because crooked corruptocrats are beholden to mafia run labor unions.
NYC was once a thriving harbor. The longshoremen's union put an end to that.
I could fix the whole mess yesterday. I'd have the IRS prepare (de facto audit) all tax returns of all Federal, State and Local employees, and all elected officials, their families and business partners. This way charlie rangel won't have to lie about stealing 4 rent-controlled apts. from little old ladies. They could no longer hide all the bribes they take.
Speak to me thusly in person, boy. You will not and we both know it. Connedservative punkass.

You repeat dittohead cliches, boy. Whichever “pundit” you get them from is irrelevant.

Our infrastructure falls apart because Republiscum won't allocate the money to maintain it. And we all know that the richer get richer under Reaganomics, the poor get poorer, and the middle class erodes.

Your BS can't cloak those facts, which are the essence of the problem of your fascist corporate-sucking politics.

You're a traitor, boy.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#363 Jan 26, 2014
I Have A Nightmare wrote:
Dr. King would be horrified at how the African-American community has "progressed" in the decades following his death. A few black leaders like Dr. Ben Carson and Col. Alan West may be able to help, but the mainstream liberal-left racist press just won't let it happen. No "free stuff" proposed by those guys. Liberals want them to remain on the plantation where they can be controlled.
The only problem with your supposition is that it overlooks the FACT that Dr. King himself was very left of center. He would have favored--did favor--universal health care, the right to collective bargaining, full employment, the shift of resources from military spending to social uplift and social reconstruction, affirmative action (both on race and class grounds), and--hold your hat-- DEMOCRATIC SOCALISM.
Probably, King would be happy with much of the progress African Americans have made, but saddened that still too little progress has been made.
I base this not simply on opinion, but on my research on the thought of King which I've also published.

“I support Cystic Fibrosis.”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#364 Jan 26, 2014
A bigot calling another person a bigot. The inbred albinos have no shame.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#365 Jan 26, 2014
Ish Tov wrote:
Mostly you're ignoring Dr. King in order to indulge in the same old racist squabbling.
King was about far more than sitting in the front of the bus. He was concerned with the social responsibility of all, to care about their fellows, to create a just society. In that respect he was firmly in the tradition of Jefferson and Paine. He believed in a divine moral imperative to love and care for our fellows. In that respect he was firmly in the tradition of Jesus and Judaism.
King was not about "race". He had to address the injustice faced by his own people, but he clearly was concerned with injustice faced by everyone. That is why he opposed the VN War, and why he supported the struggle of workers.
Stop believing the pop cartoon version of Dr. King.
I was speaking on a radio program about the life and work of Dr. King. I get quite a few invitations now that my book on King is out.
I was also at some other observances speaking. Most people don't have the foggiest idea of who King was or what he was about. Besides reading King himself, folk ought to read important work by such King scholars as Rufus Burrows, Jr, Lewis Baldwin, David Garrow, Taylor Branch, Ira Zepp, John Ansboro, Robert Franklin Mitchell, Jr., Thomas F. Jackson and others.

Everyone --if they're SERIOUS--ought to have (or borrow) at least A TESTAMENT OF HOPE and THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. The first is a fairly comprehensive anthology of King's writings and speeches. The latter is more autobiographical, including even personal letters and writing on a more personal level.

“bar0ckalypse n0w”

Since: Mar 10

Location hidden

#366 Jan 26, 2014
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
Speak to me thusly in person, boy. You will not and we both know it. Connedservative punkass.
You repeat dittohead cliches, boy. Whichever “pundit” you get them from is irrelevant.
Our infrastructure falls apart because Republiscum won't allocate the money to maintain it. And we all know that the richer get richer under Reaganomics, the poor get poorer, and the middle class erodes.
Your BS can't cloak those facts, which are the essence of the problem of your fascist corporate-sucking politics.
You're a traitor, boy.
I'll speak to you anytime, anywhere, any way I like, girl. Surrendercrat parasite.

Everyone got richer under Reagan, you dunce.

barock is the fascist. His IRS brownshirts are targeting his political enemies.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#367 Jan 26, 2014
I Have A Nightmare wrote:
<quoted text>It's about the escalating instances of black-on-black crime, drug addiction, out of wedlock pregnancies with multiple "fathers", continued failure in education because of lack of a traditional family home life, etc.,etc. I think you get the picture.
All of which can be said about WHITE people, and the foundation of which is this corrosive and exploitative society which King tried to transform.

By the way, violent crime and out of wedlock pregnancies have declined in all racial and ethnic groups within the last 20 years or so. But they will rise again.
There must be a fundamental, revolutionary transformation of the whole society--as Dr. King himself said--which would include a "radical redistribution of economic power" and a "radical revolution of values."

Ish Tov

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#368 Jan 26, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
I was speaking on a radio program about the life and work of Dr. King. I get quite a few invitations now that my book on King is out.
I was also at some other observances speaking. Most people don't have the foggiest idea of who King was or what he was about. Besides reading King himself, folk ought to read important work by such King scholars as Rufus Burrows, Jr, Lewis Baldwin, David Garrow, Taylor Branch, Ira Zepp, John Ansboro, Robert Franklin Mitchell, Jr., Thomas F. Jackson and others.
Everyone --if they're SERIOUS--ought to have (or borrow) at least A TESTAMENT OF HOPE and THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. The first is a fairly comprehensive anthology of King's writings and speeches. The latter is more autobiographical, including even personal letters and writing on a more personal level.
Your work is very valuable. I of course want serious discussion and information regarding Dr. King to be increased. Oh wait, Justin Bieber did what?

We're having a lot of 50th anniversaries. I was standing in line for gym class in Jr High when a voice on the speaker told us President Kennedy had been shot. Bang bang bang bang bang but I and others at the time heard what King was saying and it went far beyond the history we're given:“He wanted to sit in the front of the bus so some crazy cracker shot him.”

They have whitewashed that entire era. CNN is doing the Beatles now. They'll whitewash that. Look at the white kids in the Beatles' audiences. They were freaking out, screaming and shaking. Bang bang things got knocked loose. They felt free (listen to John Trudell's Elvis' Army). They turned on the TV and black people were riding firehoses down the street. What? Hey those people look like the musicians I idolize like Marvin Gaye and Mary Wells. They want to VOTE???

It was all very blatant, is my point, and King was blatantly confronting the status quo even beyond the context of black civil rights per se. He quote Jesus, he quoted Jefferson, and as you elucidate, he in the process became a great voice for justice, a philosopher of democracy, could we say?, his thinking is up there with that of Jefferson in creating an outline for a just society. A nation of smallholders... where one is judged by the content of one's character...

It is getting blatant again. Striking workers who are on govt aid due to low pay... blatant attempts to suppress the vote. This is all important NOW! In 2014 I'd tell people to read what you've written just as urgently as in the 60's we read Baldwin, Cleaver, Fanon, etc. We need to have teach-ins at the universities... Is that possible these days?

Ish Tov

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#369 Jan 26, 2014
George Jackson, Baraka, attention to the inspired leadership in organizing for non-violent revolution by heroes today sometimes forgotten: Medgar Evers, Fred Hampton.

I often criticized 60's activists for paying too little attention to THEIR predecessors, the radicals of the 30's, all the Union organizers, Woody Guthrie, Mother Jones, and all that. The aging 30's veterans often could not deal with the 60's radicals for being so freaky and extremist, and often we found that 30's veterans of Union organizing were in the 60's still quite racist (against blacks).

There's always a generational divide, but now, there is much about the 60's that needs to be comprehended and carried forward. Education is crucial about the nature of today's issues, but also, what went on... the BPP, SNCC, SCLC, AIM, UFW, SDS, VVAW...

Are people aware of the time when WWI veterans marched on Washington to demand their pensions be paid, and in the end were violently dispersed by Federal troops?

Haymarket Square?

Blaire Mt. War?

The bridge on the way to Selma?

The occupation of Alcatraz?

The reign of FBI terror at Pine Ridge?

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#371 Jan 26, 2014
mjjcpa wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll speak to you anytime, anywhere, any way I like, girl. Surrendercrat parasite.
Everyone got richer under Reagan, you dunce.
barock is the fascist. His IRS brownshirts are targeting his political enemies.
Actually, the gap between haves and have nots INCREASED under Reagan. Homelessness exploded under Reagan, and we saw the ever expanding menace of the prison industrial complex (partly due to his idiotic war on drugs). Even the crime rate under Reagan was higher. I won't claim that all these things were directly caused by the individual Reagan. But it was pushed forward by the tendencies and policies he represented.
Oh, and we've not talked about the propping up of the apartheid regime in South Africa or the massive genocidal violence his administration helped perpetrate in Central America.

Instead of Johnson's war on poverty (which was mostly a few skirmishes), Reagan offered a war on the poor themselves..
His alliances and his policies make me think of him as a fascist cowboy. Death to fascism.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#372 Jan 26, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text> The only problem with your supposition is that it overlooks the FACT that Dr. King himself was very left of center. He would have favored--did favor--universal health care, the right to collective bargaining, full employment, the shift of resources from military spending to social uplift and social reconstruction, affirmative action (both on race and class grounds), and--hold your hat-- DEMOCRATIC SOCALISM.
Probably, King would be happy with much of the progress African Americans have made, but saddened that still too little progress has been made.
I base this not simply on opinion, but on my research on the thought of King which I've also published.
The icons I saw posted here reveals the low level of discourse in Topix. The above post got a red "X" for disagree, a dim bulb for "clueless" and a peanut for "nuts."
Now anyone can agree or disagree with whatever they please But since I spent a few YEARS of research on Kingian thought, my posts are hardly clueless ----let alone nuts. Every word I stated in the post above is CORRECT. And I've yet to find any King scholars who disagree with me on these matters.
Has ANYONE in this thread done MORE research on King than I? And have you published the results of your research?
If so, then let me see your refutation. But it seems that my Sioux sister friend "NotsoDivine" is right: Those who can't debate, rate.....and without any rational criteria.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#373 Jan 26, 2014
mjjcpa wrote:
<quoted text>
You just lost, girl.
I don't listen to Rush. I told you I read history books and prefer C SPAN over almost any other channels. I could edit some of the new history channel docs.
There's no question parts of America are seriously neglected. The financial channels regularly poke fun of our airports as looking like they are from an episode of Mad Men. Our trains go slow, and still de-rail. Our bridges are falling into the water from rust.
It's not because we don't tax enough. It's because crooked corruptocrats are beholden to mafia run labor unions.
NYC was once a thriving harbor. The longshoremen's union put an end to that.
I could fix the whole mess yesterday. I'd have the IRS prepare (de facto audit) all tax returns of all Federal, State and Local employees, and all elected officials, their families and business partners. This way charlie rangel won't have to lie about stealing 4 rent-controlled apts. from little old ladies. They could no longer hide all the bribes they take.
You obviously don't read history books concerning Africa. At least your comment (in Bernice King thread) about Africans still living caves show no knowledge of such history. And to be perfectly honest, I don't get the impression that your study if history (if indeed you do study) is more than superficial. I know that Philosophy, not history, is my area of scholarship. Yet I did earn a B.A. in History and can usually tell when someone has but a superficial grasp of historical developments.
I would say that if you're interested in history, you might consider reading Dr. Thomas F. Jackson's FROM CIVIL RIGHTS TO HUMAN RIGHTS: MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR AND THE STRUGGLE FOR ECONOMIC JUSTICE before making any further comments on Dr. King.(And you ought also to read Dr. King himself) And at least read W.E.B.Du Bois, Roger Bastide and Cheikh Anta Diop before making further comments on Africa.

Ish Tov

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#374 Jan 26, 2014
Clearly Reaganomics was the most cynical and fascist sort of social engineering, perpetrated in the sole interest of corporate power. Reagan made the U$A govt a social agency for capital.

Screwing the poor, while telling them that this makes them freer, has been the tactic of Reaganomics. Lie, repeat cliches endlessly, don't let Democrats talk, name-call... that's Rush, Faux News and all the Reagamomics propagandists from Gingrich to Coulter.

Anti-worker, anti-majority, anti-woman, anti-environment, anti-minority, anti-immigrant, anti-democratic TRAITORS is what these connedservative dittoheads are!

U$A: 2nd-tier backwards $hithole, thanks to CONNEDSERVATIVES!
Truth Factor

Tuxtla Gutiérrez, Mexico

#375 Jan 26, 2014
Ish Tov wrote:
<quoted text>
Reagan was the worst Pres the U$A ever had. Reaganomics trashed the nation. Reagan was racist. He opened his campaign in Philadelphia MS stating,“I support states rights”... in MS that means RACISM. Reagan pushed the notion that the poor were guilty for their own poverty,“blame the victim”, etc.
Reagan was a criminal against humanity who funded, armed and trained deathsquads in 4 countries which tortured and killed hundreds of thousands. He should have, by rights, been tried at The Hague and then hung like a Nürnberg Nazi.
Reagan was scum.
The Cold War was largely created, on the Western side, but the Dulles brothers. Your grasp of history is twisted and minimal, boy. Turn off Faux News, halfwit.
FDR pulled the U$A out of the Depression, and won WW2. He improved U$A society greatly.
MLK and FDR were the 2 greatest Yanks of the 20th century, without any doubt.
Reagan? One of history's most despicable characters, on the same list with Pol Pot and Mussolini.
And some people wonder why people like you are found with a bullet hole between your eyes..........
Truth Factor

Tuxtla Gutiérrez, Mexico

#376 Jan 26, 2014
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
The icons I saw posted here reveals the low level of discourse in Topix. The above post got a red "X" for disagree, a dim bulb for "clueless" and a peanut for "nuts."
Now anyone can agree or disagree with whatever they please But since I spent a few YEARS of research on Kingian thought, my posts are hardly clueless ----let alone nuts. Every word I stated in the post above is CORRECT. And I've yet to find any King scholars who disagree with me on these matters.
Has ANYONE in this thread done MORE research on King than I? And have you published the results of your research?
If so, then let me see your refutation. But it seems that my Sioux sister friend "NotsoDivine" is right: Those who can't debate, rate.....and without any rational criteria.
Why waste time doing any more "research" on "King" who was raised by a nazi sympathizer? The loud mouthed fuckwad never finished high school. The idea of tack a Rev or Dr in front of that communist whoremongers false name is hilarious! Yes thats right, FALSE NAME. He was born Michael but his father renamed them both Martin Luther while visiting Hitler before WW2! And you bunch of gullible idiots suck that shit up and carmelize it thinking nobody knows the TRUTH! Somebody should have shot that home grown terrorist before they did. As a matter of fact shooting his mother while he was still dodging the coat hanger would have been even better! Legacy? Yeah lies of shit about shit!

Since: Aug 09

Saint Louis, MO

#377 Jan 26, 2014
fingiswold wrote:
<quoted text>
You're completely screwy, is what you are. Ghadafi was one of the worst dictators of the last 60 years.
No one cares what you "forgive," weirdo.
So what? How about Saddam Hussein? I thought you all claimed he was a "bad dictator". You will notice that Dumb-dumb Bush gave him a trial. It was not a fair trail by any measure. But it was a nice show of a trial. That made Dumb-dumb look almost civilized. But Obama? Obama did not have th4e decency to pretend that he was doing a fair and legal trial. Obama had the man LYNCHED. That is unforgivable of the black community no matter how you look at it. But you sick perverts try to pret3end it did not happen. It did happen. And it is outrageous to go crawling to Mandela try to benefit from his shadow. It is enough to make a person puke. Qaddafi was Mandela's friend. He stood by Mandela for all those years he was in jail. Get your facts straight, you sick perverted dog.

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