Mall Death IDed as Coal City Man

Mall Death IDed as Coal City Man

There are 48 comments on the WJOL-AM Joliet story from Sep 14, 2012, titled Mall Death IDed as Coal City Man. In it, WJOL-AM Joliet reports that:

The 20 year old man found dead in his car outside the Louis Joliet Mall late Wednesday night has been identified as 20 year old Owen Elberts of Coal City.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WJOL-AM Joliet.

“The blessings of liberty”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#27 Sep 27, 2012
So "Person", first why do you think that what you had to say is relevant? Death is non-discriminate as is addiction. You need to back up and look at yourself and what you did here. It's obvious you have a low opinion of this young man, and I can't speak about it either way because I don't have any personal experience. However what you said doesn't change anything I said. This story isn't about the life and death of one man. It's about a growing problem in our society called addiction and it has also highlighted the lack of compassion and basic manners. People sometimes have bad home lives, or lack of opportunity, sometimes there may be depression or some other mental or emotional disorder. Who knows what was going in this guy's mind. Either way to be indifferent to his death is your business but you put your business on a public forum. You disregarded the feelings off the family and posted your low opinion of this guy. Don't you see that as a problem? You can't hurt him anymore he's gone, so guess who gets hurt? The mother, father, syblings, friends. I don't know you or anything about you except this one post but my opinion of you equals your opinion of him.
me

Northbrook, IL

#28 Sep 27, 2012
Happy Dad wrote:
So "Person", first why do you think that what you had to say is relevant? Death is non-discriminate as is addiction. You need to back up and look at yourself and what you did here. It's obvious you have a low opinion of this young man, and I can't speak about it either way because I don't have any personal experience. However what you said doesn't change anything I said. This story isn't about the life and death of one man. It's about a growing problem in our society called addiction and it has also highlighted the lack of compassion and basic manners. People sometimes have bad home lives, or lack of opportunity, sometimes there may be depression or some other mental or emotional disorder. Who knows what was going in this guy's mind. Either way to be indifferent to his death is your business but you put your business on a public forum. You disregarded the feelings off the family and posted your low opinion of this guy. Don't you see that as a problem? You can't hurt him anymore he's gone, so guess who gets hurt? The mother, father, syblings, friends. I don't know you or anything about you except this one post but my opinion of you equals your opinion of him.
Yes. Death is indiscriminate. We all die. However addiction is not indiscriminate. Addiction avoids people who do not engage in addictive behaviors. Addiction is not random.

“The blessings of liberty”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#30 Sep 27, 2012
me wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. Death is indiscriminate. We all die. However addiction is not indiscriminate. Addiction avoids people who do not engage in addictive behaviors. Addiction is not random.
Well I hate to continue to try to explain something to you that you don't want to understand. It is only your opinion that you're giving about addiction there are many variables that apply. For instance home life, neighborhood, unavoidable life events, emotional struggles, chemical imbalance and deficiencies, and the list goes on. The truth is you can't brag about how well you would handled the same set of circustances that this man faced in life, none of us can. And yet you chose to come on here, and make judgement calls. Why? What's the point? Again let me point out he has family and friends who may be reading this. If you can't say something nice than don't say anything.
heroin kills

Joliet, IL

#31 Sep 27, 2012
For the idiot that uses the screen name "me" maybe you should educate yourself about addiction before you comment about it.....

According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), addiction is a chronic, relapsing brain disease characterized by compulsive drug (or alcohol) seeking and use, despite harmful consequences. Addiction disrupts normal, healthy functioning of the brain. This disease process is the same regardless of the type of substance a person abuses. Like many other diseases, addictions are preventable and treatable, but left untreated, their damaging effects can last a lifetime.

Genetics account for 40 to 60 percent of a person's vulnerability to addiction. Biology (for example, age, and presence of other diseases) and environmental influences (stress, diet, and peer pressure) also play a significant role. Not surprisingly, adolescents and those with mental health disorders are at greatest risk for substance abuse and addiction.

Drugs and alcohol initially activate pleasure pathways in the brain. With prolonged use, these substances blunt the pathways and no longer produce a pleasurable high. This essentially sets a new normal level of brain functioning, which requires more and more drugs or alcohol just to maintain.

The likelihood that someone who tries drugs or alcohol will become addicted varies. The Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences reports that 32 percent of those who try tobacco will become dependent. Twenty three percent who try heroin, 17 percent who try cocaine, 15 percent who try alcohol, and nine percent who try marijuana will also become dependent.

While research has established that alcoholism runs in families, scientists have now identified the genetic variations that contribute to the hereditary nature of the disease. Genetic variation describes the differences of sequencing of DNA among individuals that influences whether a person has higher or lower risk for developing a particular disease, such as addiction. In some cases, genetic variation can actually protect a person from the effects of a drug.

Although family history of alcohol abuse predicts who is most likely to develop an addiction, it does not predict who will successfully recover from addiction. Other factors, such as poor impulse control and mild cognitive dysfunction, are actually more important in predicting remission. Interestingly, scientists have found that those who get the sickest from alcohol are also the ones most likely to get better.
stop the madness

Joliet, IL

#32 Sep 27, 2012
Happy dad your on the money and some Assholes will never see anything from any other view but their own - right or wrong- Let me say this to all these LIARS AND HYPROCRITES who judge ones life after death .... I 'LL LAY A PAYCHECK ON IT you done something very stupid in your lives and were very lucky to be alive today to partake in this post . LETS JUST AN EXAMPLE - DRIVE HOME DRUNK AFTER THE "friendly get together" at the bar.

So tell me a lie and say you dont drink and drive "ME" !!!!!
wow

Braidwood, IL

#33 Sep 27, 2012
stop the madness wrote:
Happy dad your on the money and some Assholes will never see anything from any other view but their own - right or wrong- Let me say this to all these LIARS AND HYPROCRITES who judge ones life after death .... I 'LL LAY A PAYCHECK ON IT you done something very stupid in your lives and were very lucky to be alive today to partake in this post . LETS JUST AN EXAMPLE - DRIVE HOME DRUNK AFTER THE "friendly get together" at the bar.

So tell me a lie and say you dont drink and drive "ME" !!!!!
A whole paycheck!!!
me

Northbrook, IL

#34 Sep 27, 2012
I absolutely understand the bio-psychosocial concepts behind addiction. I understand that addiction can be prevented with proper treatment of underlying issues prior to the addiction. What you don't seem to understand is that you cannot be addicted to heroin if you never try heroin. I don't care about your DNA, your environmental situation, and any issues in life has dealt a person. That does feed the addiction. In fact, those issues may lead to someone looking to self-medicate. But again, if you don't try it, you don't become addicted. I don't understand why it's such a difficult concept to grasp. The kid had issues for sure! But he also had free will. The decision he made to try heroin was the big mistake. Again, I'm not discounting the factors that may have lead up to the use. You don't need to Google whatever site you decide to read up on prior to your replies. I have a pretty good grasp on it and am fairly well educated. I have problems too. Guess what, I still knew heroin will kill you. If you want to get a handle on the record breaking heroin problem in Will County, start taking action with the kids before it starts. Education and counseling is one step. Don't wait till a kid dies then spread some nonsense of empathy. I don't want to see anyone lose a child. But everything happens for a reason....the reason being that we put ourselves in a certain situation at a certain time and make decisions based on the information we have at that time. It's not rocket science people. Wake up!
me

Northbrook, IL

#35 Sep 27, 2012
Happy Dad wrote:
<quoted text>Well I hate to continue to try to explain something to you that you don't want to understand. It is only your opinion that you're giving about addiction there are many variables that apply. For instance home life, neighborhood, unavoidable life events, emotional struggles, chemical imbalance and deficiencies, and the list goes on. The truth is you can't brag about how well you would handled the same set of circustances that this man faced in life, none of us can. And yet you chose to come on here, and make judgement calls. Why? What's the point? Again let me point out he has family and friends who may be reading this. If you can't say something nice than don't say anything.
Who made a judgement call? It is a FACT that the kid on his free will did heroin, and because of it he's dead. I don't understand what you're trying to say? How is that judgmental? It is fact, it is common sense. If a man jumps off a bridge, and I say "he's dead because he jumped off a bridge" that would be accurate. But I have a feeling you'd try to call me judgmental and sell me on empathy.
stop the madness

Downers Grove, IL

#36 Sep 27, 2012
So tell me "me" do you drink - serious question ?
me

Northbrook, IL

#37 Sep 27, 2012
stop the madness wrote:
So tell me "me" do you drink - serious question ?
Sure do.
Been There

Joliet, IL

#38 Sep 28, 2012
Happy Dad wrote:
<quoted text>Well I hate to continue to try to explain something to you that you don't want to understand. It is only your opinion that you're giving about addiction there are many variables that apply. For instance home life, neighborhood, unavoidable life events, emotional struggles, chemical imbalance and deficiencies, and the list goes on. The truth is you can't brag about how well you would handled the same set of circustances that this man faced in life, none of us can. And yet you chose to come on here, and make judgement calls. Why? What's the point? Again let me point out he has family and friends who may be reading this. If you can't say something nice than don't say anything.
While you make good points, I think you are being a little hard on the poster called "Me". He makes a valid point too.

For whatever reasons or circumstances, there comes a time when a decision is made and the person making the decision accepts the consequences. Surprisingly, facing that fact can actually help those left behind. It helped me.

To the family: I have walked in your shoes. You have my deepest understanding and sympathy.

“The blessings of liberty”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#39 Sep 30, 2012
Been There wrote:
<quoted text>
While you make good points, I think you are being a little hard on the poster called "Me". He makes a valid point too.
.....
I appreciate your candor. And I don't disagree totally with the poster named "me". I do however take exception with the motives and timing. I think "me" was so set on making his/her point that they failed to look at the big picture. To say that a person that made a choice to take drugs, then got addicted, which in turn led to more bad choices of taking drugs, to say that person deserves to be dead or that you don't care that they're dead is very harsh and condemnatory. And "me" has portrayed a very sanctimonious attitude, and yet admits to taking similar risks with alcohol. So according to his/her analogy if he/she would have become an alcoholic because of taking the first drink, and later died of liver disease, according to what they have said, "it was a stupid decision that killed them and who cares anyway? It's their own fault."
So I wonder since apparently they aren't an alcoholic if it was an equally stupid decision that "me" made. Or, does it mean that they are just a very intelligent and strong person because they can handle their liquor? I'm just trying to understand this thinking. And if this statement is in accordance to their opinion, couldn't that also be said about a person who occasionally takes drugs for recreation and yet doesn't get addicted? What if that person who isn't addicted to drugs yet has an occasional party high, dies from an overdose? Or what if "me" gets a little over-intoxicated and drowns in his/her own vomit? Or falls and fatally injures their self would this suddenly make them an idiot that killed his/herself from a bad decision? My point is "me" has, by their own admission, taken similar risks as the deceased and was fortunate enough so far to have gotten away with it.
Granted if you don't start drugs you don't get addicted. But that applies to an number of childhood mistakes. All I'm saying to "me" is yes let's warn the kids going forward. We should double our efforts in fact but compassion for a lost individual isn't wrong or dumb or misplaced. So if you can't show some compassion toward a family in grief, and realize that your bad decisions could have cost you your life, then you have problem, it's called hypocrisy.
Truth

Reddick, IL

#40 Sep 30, 2012
Happy Dad wrote:
<quoted text>I appreciate your candor. And I don't disagree totally with the poster named "me". I do however take exception with the motives and timing. I think "me" was so set on making his/her point that they failed to look at the big picture. To say that a person that made a choice to take drugs, then got addicted, which in turn led to more bad choices of taking drugs, to say that person deserves to be dead or that you don't care that they're dead is very harsh and condemnatory. And "me" has portrayed a very sanctimonious attitude, and yet admits to taking similar risks with alcohol. So according to his/her analogy if he/she would have become an alcoholic because of taking the first drink, and later died of liver disease, according to what they have said, "it was a stupid decision that killed them and who cares anyway? It's their own fault."
So I wonder since apparently they aren't an alcoholic if it was an equally stupid decision that "me" made. Or, does it mean that they are just a very intelligent and strong person because they can handle their liquor? I'm just trying to understand this thinking. And if this statement is in accordance to their opinion, couldn't that also be said about a person who occasionally takes drugs for recreation and yet doesn't get addicted? What if that person who isn't addicted to drugs yet has an occasional party high, dies from an overdose? Or what if "me" gets a little over-intoxicated and drowns in his/her own vomit? Or falls and fatally injures their self would this suddenly make them an idiot that killed his/herself from a bad decision? My point is "me" has, by their own admission, taken similar risks as the deceased and was fortunate enough so far to have gotten away with it.
Granted if you don't start drugs you don't get addicted. But that applies to an number of childhood mistakes. All I'm saying to "me" is yes let's warn the kids going forward. We should double our efforts in fact but compassion for a lost individual isn't wrong or dumb or misplaced. So if you can't show some compassion toward a family in grief, and realize that your bad decisions could have cost you your life, then you have problem, it's called hypocrisy.
You're a stroke
me

Des Plaines, IL

#41 Oct 1, 2012
Happy Dad wrote:
<quoted text>I appreciate your candor. And I don't disagree totally with the poster named "me". I do however take exception with the motives and timing. I think "me" was so set on making his/her point that they failed to look at the big picture. To say that a person that made a choice to take drugs, then got addicted, which in turn led to more bad choices of taking drugs, to say that person deserves to be dead or that you don't care that they're dead is very harsh and condemnatory. And "me" has portrayed a very sanctimonious attitude, and yet admits to taking similar risks with alcohol. So according to his/her analogy if he/she would have become an alcoholic because of taking the first drink, and later died of liver disease, according to what they have said, "it was a stupid decision that killed them and who cares anyway? It's their own fault."
So I wonder since apparently they aren't an alcoholic if it was an equally stupid decision that "me" made. Or, does it mean that they are just a very intelligent and strong person because they can handle their liquor? I'm just trying to understand this thinking. And if this statement is in accordance to their opinion, couldn't that also be said about a person who occasionally takes drugs for recreation and yet doesn't get addicted? What if that person who isn't addicted to drugs yet has an occasional party high, dies from an overdose? Or what if "me" gets a little over-intoxicated and drowns in his/her own vomit? Or falls and fatally injures their self would this suddenly make them an idiot that killed his/herself from a bad decision? My point is "me" has, by their own admission, taken similar risks as the deceased and was fortunate enough so far to have gotten away with it.
Granted if you don't start drugs you don't get addicted. But that applies to an number of childhood mistakes. All I'm saying to "me" is yes let's warn the kids going forward. We should double our efforts in fact but compassion for a lost individual isn't wrong or dumb or misplaced. So if you can't show some compassion toward a family in grief, and realize that your bad decisions could have cost you your life, then you have problem, it's called hypocrisy.
God. You're clueless. You're quoting things that were never said. Sorry pal, it's obvious you live in your own world where obviously having a beer is of the same caliber as shooting heroin. And if I were to become an alcoholic, yes, my fault. That's ok, I'll let you feel good about your posts....
stop the madness

Joliet, IL

#42 Oct 1, 2012
So when you drink and drive your car your actions not only effect your life but every other person on the road. So for you to ignorantly judge another for something you do yourself is assnine YOU my friend are a true HYPROCRITE ! I hope theres some other asshole out there thats just as ignorant posting stuff about you
me wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure do.
me

Des Plaines, IL

#43 Oct 1, 2012
stop the madness wrote:
<quoted text>So when you drink and drive your car your actions not only effect your life but every other person on the road. So for you to ignorantly judge another for something you do yourself is assnine YOU my friend are a true HYPROCRITE ! I hope theres some other asshole out there thats just as ignorant posting stuff about you
1. I never said that I drink and drive. 2. When you drive your car sober, your actions not only "effects" your life but every other person on the road. 3. If I were to drive drunk, and my drunkenness was the primary cause of an accident that hurt me or myself, I would be to blame.

Again, it has nothing to do with this Kim specifically. It had everything to do with the fact that a drug addict is addicted to drugs because he or she started using drugs. I'm trying to be civil here. I think I'm doing well.

“The blessings of liberty”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#44 Oct 2, 2012
me wrote:
<quoted text>
God. You're clueless. You're quoting things that were never said. Sorry pal, it's obvious you live in your own world where obviously having a beer is of the same caliber as shooting heroin. And if I were to become an alcoholic, yes, my fault. That's ok, I'll let you feel good about your posts....
Well if I'm clueless, enlighten me. What have I misquoted? And the point that compares heroin to alcohol is a very good comparison. You like alcohol, however, it can be just as damaging to a person and their family as heroin. The initial affect may not be as dramatic but go spend some time at a detox center or at an AA meeting and you will see the comparison. If still don't see it, it"s because you don't want to. But really, tell me how I misquoted you.
me

Des Plaines, IL

#45 Oct 2, 2012
Happy Dad wrote:
<quoted text>Well if I'm clueless, enlighten me. What have I misquoted? And the point that compares heroin to alcohol is a very good comparison. You like alcohol, however, it can be just as damaging to a person and their family as heroin. The initial affect may not be as dramatic but go spend some time at a detox center or at an AA meeting and you will see the comparison. If still don't see it, it"s because you don't want to. But really, tell me how I misquoted you.
Well, considering I replied to a post from "stop the madness", it's pretty clear I wasn't referring to you Happy Dad. I don't need to go to AA or a detox center to see the effects of alcohol. It can be very dangerous under certain circumstances. However, socially have a couple of drinks is not the same as shooting or snorting heroin. If you think it's similar, maybe you should visit a methadone clinic! When we buy a 6 pack of beer, we know where it comes from. Can't say that about heroin. It's not regulated, usually not pure, and it can kill you the first time out.
me

Des Plaines, IL

#46 Oct 2, 2012
Happy Dad wrote:
<quoted text>Well if I'm clueless, enlighten me. What have I misquoted? And the point that compares heroin to alcohol is a very good comparison. You like alcohol, however, it can be just as damaging to a person and their family as heroin. The initial affect may not be as dramatic but go spend some time at a detox center or at an AA meeting and you will see the comparison. If still don't see it, it"s because you don't want to. But really, tell me how I misquoted you.
My apologies happy dad, yes you did misquote me. I got my posts mixed up. Never once did I say "who cares anyway?" Obviously the kids family does. But it doesn't change the fact that the kid messed up and died because of it.

“The blessings of liberty”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#47 Oct 2, 2012
me wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, considering I replied to a post from "stop the madness", it's pretty clear I wasn't referring to you Happy Dad. I don't need to go to AA or a detox center to see the effects of alcohol. It can be very dangerous under certain circumstances. However, socially have a couple of drinks is not the same as shooting or snorting heroin. If you think it's similar, maybe you should visit a methadone clinic! When we buy a 6 pack of beer, we know where it comes from. Can't say that about heroin. It's not regulated, usually not pure, and it can kill you the first time out.
But again we're talking about people who get hooked as young teens. They believe and trust because they're young and impetuous. My point was and is just because you feel safe with alcohol and do fine with it I've seen the flip side. And I've been to all the rehab and treatment centers. I've seen with my own eyes the damage that happens, both with drugs and alcohol and either one is a crap shoot.

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