Gun Laws - Coal City, IL

“The blessings of liberty”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#42 Aug 20, 2012
Thinking It Over wrote:
<quoted text>
If the world were simply divided between criminals and non-criminals then your argument would be sound. But the world is also populated with "shoot first, think later" idiots who the average person is much more likely to run into. Aren't you at all concerned about sending your children out into a world of armed idiots? Doesn't your position solve one problem but create yet another?
Valid point, one which I've considered. And I addressed that in an earlier post. But just to clear that up, I mentioned that I'm for a training and screening process similar to a driver's license. Also there should be restrictions on alcohol and guns as well.

“The blessings of liberty”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#43 Aug 20, 2012
haha wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. And it still goes back to what kind of protection you can offer of the criminal had the draw on you? I just don't see how more people having guns will solve anything. It has nothing to do with big city or small town. The fact is the chance of being physically harmed for no reasons, is minimal. And remember, you can't protect property with deadly force, so all the people in braidwood who want to shoot the car burglars, will be in prison. More guns = more screw ups.
The truth is, there would be far less cat burglars to worry about. They would all be looking for new carreers.
Wilmington Area Resident

Wilmington, IL

#44 Aug 20, 2012
rambo wrote:
Illinois NEEDS TO follow suit with the rest of the USA .....RIGHT TO CARRY !!!!!
Right to carry!!!! Right on!
Thinking It Over

Joliet, IL

#45 Aug 20, 2012
Happy Dad wrote:
<quoted text>Valid point, one which I've considered. And I addressed that in an earlier post. But just to clear that up, I mentioned that I'm for a training and screening process similar to a driver's license. Also there should be restrictions on alcohol and guns as well.
I have not made up my mind about concealed carry. I genuinely understand your position and agree that criminals may think twice before they make a move on someone who they think might be carrying. I can see this making a difference in the overall criminal activity.

But, honestly, I have been around for many, many years and in all that time I have never found myself in a situation where I wished I had a gun. On the other hand, I have encountered more idiots than I care to count and I shiver at the thought of these people carrying a gun, even trained and screened. I understand that anyone, at any time, in any place can meet a criminal but in my life, I am much more likely to meet an idiot than a criminal.

Your comparison to driving a car is not a convincing argument to me. It is not the training and screening that has me worried. As a rule, I do not think that cars attract nuts in quite the same way that guns do. How do you screen the guy/gal who is well trained but is subject to bad judgement calls? And drinking and driving is already a huge problem in our society. Do we really need to add drinking and shooting to that?

I am not trying to be argumentative. Just weighing the pros and cons.

“The blessings of liberty”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#46 Aug 20, 2012
Thinking It Over wrote:
<quoted text>
I have not made up my mind about concealed carry. I genuinely understand your position and agree that criminals may think twice before they make a move on someone who they think might be carrying. I can see this making a difference in the overall criminal activity.
But, honestly, I have been around for many, many years and in all that time I have never found myself in a situation where I wished I had a gun. On the other hand, I have encountered more idiots than I care to count and I shiver at the thought of these people carrying a gun, even trained and screened. I understand that anyone, at any time, in any place can meet a criminal but in my life, I am much more likely to meet an idiot than a criminal.
Your comparison to driving a car is not a convincing argument to me. It is not the training and screening that has me worried. As a rule, I do not think that cars attract nuts in quite the same way that guns do. How do you screen the guy/gal who is well trained but is subject to bad judgement calls? And drinking and driving is already a huge problem in our society. Do we really need to add drinking and shooting to that?
I am not trying to be argumentative. Just weighing the pros and cons.
Well stated and you're a breath of fresh air on Topix. It's nice to find someone who can disagree with me but not insult me.

I don't know if you're aware of this or not but Illinois is the only state that doesn't allow conceal carry in at least some form. I'm fairly certain that there are just as many idiots in other states as the are in Illinois.
And the car analogy is a perfect analogy. Have you seen the amount of deaths caused by idiots who have valid drivers license? Can you believe we had to pass laws outlawing texting and driving??? Trust me idiots don't need a gun to kill people, it's just that car accidents are more common and seem less violent than gun related accidents, but when the dust settles the victims are just as dead. And the idiots are just as stupid. Should they be allowed to carry guns? Well according to the Bill of Rights yes.
Dick

Coal City, IL

#47 Aug 20, 2012
Your not allowed to have a firearm in an establishment where alchoal is consumed, no matter what state you CCW. Happy Dad! Im sure IL would be the same, if it ever got passed in my life time.
Thinking It Over

Joliet, IL

#48 Aug 20, 2012
Happy Dad wrote:
<quoted text> I'm fairly certain that there are just as many idiots in other states as the are in Illinois.
Oh, I don't know about that. Illinois ranks way up there in many undesirable areas. I have no reason to doubt her excellence in producing idiots. lol.

“The blessings of liberty”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#49 Aug 20, 2012
Dick wrote:
Your not allowed to have a firearm in an establishment where alchoal is consumed, no matter what state you CCW. Happy Dad! Im sure IL would be the same, if it ever got passed in my life time.
Agree on all points.
Thinking It Over

Joliet, IL

#50 Aug 20, 2012
Dick wrote:
Your not allowed to have a firearm in an establishment where alchoal is consumed, no matter what state you CCW. Happy Dad! Im sure IL would be the same, if it ever got passed in my life time.
That makes good sense but what doesn't make sense to me is that these people have to then leave their guns in their vehicles where they can easily retrieve them after a night of drinking. So, while you have lessened the liklihood that an incident will happen in the bar, you have not eliminated the drinking/gun connection.

“The blessings of liberty”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#51 Aug 20, 2012
Thinking It Over wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I don't know about that. Illinois ranks way up there in many undesirable areas. I have no reason to doubt her excellence in producing idiots. lol.
Lol let's not be cynical.
Thinking It Over

Joliet, IL

#52 Aug 21, 2012
http://concealedguns.procon.org/

I found this interesting site that discusses the pros and cons in a non-partisan way. Many of the cons made complete sense to me and some were good answers to pro arguments.

But....the pro point that stood out to me was the one that stated that if an armed citizen were present at Columbine or Virginia Tech, lives would have been saved. I believe this to be true.

I can see both sides of this argument which leaves me still on the fence. In the end, I have a hard time accepting the members of our society walking around armed and ready for a confrontation. It is not what I had in mind for my children and grandchildren.

If courts were stricter on criminals and more conscience of protecting the innocent, people would not feel the need to do their job for them.

“The blessings of liberty”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#53 Aug 21, 2012
Thinking It Over wrote:
http://concealedguns.procon.or g/
I found this interesting site that discusses the pros and cons in a non-partisan way. Many of the cons made complete sense to me and some were good answers to pro arguments.
But....the pro point that stood out to me was the one that stated that if an armed citizen were present at Columbine or Virginia Tech, lives would have been saved. I believe this to be true.
I can see both sides of this argument which leaves me still on the fence. In the end, I have a hard time accepting the members of our society walking around armed and ready for a confrontation. It is not what I had in mind for my children and grandchildren.
If courts were stricter on criminals and more conscience of protecting the innocent, people would not feel the need to do their job for them.
Right! We don't want the wild west. If there is to be Conceal carry in Illinois it must be done in a sensible way.
Ford

Joliet, IL

#54 Dec 11, 2012
haha wrote:
<quoted text>
Man shot himself the other day in a CC parking lot in broad daylight. It was an accident. Thank god there were no children around.
You mean the one that shot himself in the leg because he didn't clear his gun? For sure thank God no children were around. What about Delfino Mora,the 62 year old father that was beat to death by 3 teens last July? Im guessing if he showed them the business end of a .45 he may still have a few years left with his family.

“The blessings of liberty”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#55 Dec 12, 2012
According to a recent federal ruling Illinois law makers have 6 months to come up with a conceal carry law.

Because it is unconstitutional to not have one.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story...
Besara

Omaha, NE

#56 Dec 12, 2012
Happy Dad wrote:
<quoted text>Right! We don't want the wild west. If there is to be Conceal carry in Illinois it must be done in a sensible way.
Wild west? You watch too many Hollywood movies.
Besara

Omaha, NE

#57 Dec 12, 2012
Dick wrote:
Your not allowed to have a firearm in an establishment where alchoal is consumed, no matter what state you CCW. Happy Dad! Im sure IL would be the same, if it ever got passed in my life time.
You're wrong. In many states you can carry as long as you're not drinking alcohol.
Besara

Omaha, NE

#58 Dec 12, 2012
haha wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. And it still goes back to what kind of protection you can offer of the criminal had the draw on you? I just don't see how more people having guns will solve anything. It has nothing to do with big city or small town. The fact is the chance of being physically harmed for no reasons, is minimal. And remember, you can't protect property with deadly force, so all the people in braidwood who want to shoot the car burglars, will be in prison. More guns = more screw ups.
"The fact is the chance of being physically harmed for no reasons, is minimal."

Got a cite for that?

Less guns = more vicitims.
Besara

Omaha, NE

#59 Dec 12, 2012
Thinking It Over wrote:
<quoted text>
.....On the other hand, I have encountered more idiots than I care to count and I shiver at the thought of these people carrying a gun, even trained and screened.
Same can be said about automobiles.
Thinking It Over wrote:
I understand that anyone, at any time, in any place can meet a criminal but in my life, I am much more likely to meet an idiot than a criminal.
Odds are you won't have a house fire either. Dopes that mean a fire extinguisher doesn't exist in your home?
Thinking It Over wrote:
Your comparison to driving a car is not a convincing argument to me. It is not the training and screening that has me worried. As a rule, I do not think that cars attract nuts in quite the same way that guns do.
Oh really? Do you have a credible cite for that? Is that why more people are killed and injured with automobiles?
Is that why insurance for autos is so much higher for the 16-25 age group?
Thinking It Over wrote:
How do you screen the guy/gal who is well trained but is subject to bad judgement calls? And drinking and driving is already a huge problem in our society. Do we really need to add drinking and shooting to that?
Sheeesh. Are you a big fan of prior restraint? Does the concept of rights and liberties bother you? Does the presumption of innocence matter?
Thinking It Over wrote:
I am not trying to be argumentative. Just weighing the pros and cons.
How about over 1 million annual defensive gun uses factor in?

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.ht...

There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually.

Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text, PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.

There is one study, the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which in 1993, estimated 108,000 DGU's annually. Why the huge discrepancy between this survey and fourteen others?
Besara

Omaha, NE

#60 Dec 12, 2012
Thinking It Over wrote:
http://concealedguns.procon.or g/
I found this interesting site that discusses the pros and cons in a non-partisan way. Many of the cons made complete sense to me and some were good answers to pro arguments.
But....the pro point that stood out to me was the one that stated that if an armed citizen were present at Columbine or Virginia Tech, lives would have been saved. I believe this to be true.
I can see both sides of this argument which leaves me still on the fence. In the end, I have a hard time accepting the members of our society walking around armed and ready for a confrontation.
Do you instead you prefer a populace to remain ripe for the picking for the vermin that love to prey on the weak and defenseless?
Thinking It Over wrote:
It is not what I had in mind for my children and grandchildren.
If courts were stricter on criminals and more conscience of protecting the innocent, people would not feel the need to do their job for them.
Well, until then why would you balk at allowing innocent people to do just that?
Besara

Omaha, NE

#61 Dec 12, 2012
haha wrote:
<quoted text>
you're an idiot. How have you lived without your sidearm for so long? Has your family been repeatedly harmed due to your lack of "protection"? Quit compensating for your little pecker.
How long have you been afflicted with "Penis on the Brain Syndrome"? That you spend so much time obsessing over the size of gun owners' genitalia is disturbing.
Maybe because you're a colostomy bag with ears, you can't help it.

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