Life-at-fertilization initiative has ...

Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.

There are 2671 comments on the Centre Daily Times story from Oct 17, 2011, titled Life-at-fertilization initiative has hope in Miss.. In it, Centre Daily Times reports that:

In this June 6, 2011 file photo, Ezekiel Sowell, 7, right,of Tupelo, Miss., sings during a prayer rally for the Personhood Amendment at the Capitol in Jackson, Miss.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Centre Daily Times.

IRYW

Allentown, PA

#2578 Apr 21, 2013
zef wrote:
<quoted text>
Laws do not stop women from using drugs, yet drugs are illegal. Laws do not stop women from driving drunk, yet drunk driving is illegal. As should abortion be illegal.
That was a pathetic argument. Society has vested interests in restricting access to, and/or the use of, certain drugs as well as penalizing the abuse of legal drugs. Those reasons can include risks to the person (just as government can mandate the use of seat belts due to the high cost to society of not wearing one) and risks to other persons (as in driving under the influence).

Abortion does not represent a cost or burden to society outside the conservative's obsession. In fact, we know that the financial cost of unwanted children massively outweighs any costs associated with contraception or abortion, both in real dollars as well as in the perpetuation of entire populations of poor, uneducated, people who become a serious problem for a civil society beyond the dollar cost (crime, inability to understand and vote responsibly on complex issues, overcrowding, etc.)

If we had a culture where people could easily avoid having children until financially and personally prepared to care for them properly, imagine how much better off we would be.
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2579 Apr 21, 2013
Godame wrote:
<quoted text>
==========
Our society has promoted laws that are not enforced and then people disrespect the law. It is common sense not to drive drunk and many people are on drugs made legal by the marketing of drug companies for a profit with regard of an individual's life.
Laws are not a replacement for individual common sense. The citizen can not afford the laws or the enforcement and punishment.
No, people can afford the laws to lock up drunk drivers to prevent them from causing damage or death to others with their vehicles. As can people afford to lock up abortion providers and pregnant women soliciting abortions to prevent them from killing innocent babies with abortion. Although, of course, citizens cannot afford the laws for enforcement and punishment of drug users, since most people that choose to use drugs only cause harm to themselves, naturally, isn't it much easier and more popular to persecute the drug users of our society while pandering to the narcissistic spoiled pregnant women of our society, than to behave like civilized human beings? What police officer wants a bunch of arrogant women bitching at them and belittling them, when they could just as easily placate the masses by beating up on drug users?
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2580 Apr 21, 2013
IRYW wrote:
<quoted text>
That was a pathetic argument. Society has vested interests in restricting access to, and/or the use of, certain drugs as well as penalizing the abuse of legal drugs. Those reasons can include risks to the person (just as government can mandate the use of seat belts due to the high cost to society of not wearing one) and risks to other persons (as in driving under the influence).
Abortion does not represent a cost or burden to society outside the conservative's obsession. In fact, we know that the financial cost of unwanted children massively outweighs any costs associated with contraception or abortion, both in real dollars as well as in the perpetuation of entire populations of poor, uneducated, people who become a serious problem for a civil society beyond the dollar cost (crime, inability to understand and vote responsibly on complex issues, overcrowding, etc.)
If we had a culture where people could easily avoid having children until financially and personally prepared to care for them properly, imagine how much better off we would be.
Your vile bigotry is vulgar and insulting. The lives of unwanted children are no less important than anyone else's life. You and your ilk are a blight upon humanity that everyone would be much better off without.
IRYW

Allentown, PA

#2581 Apr 21, 2013
zef wrote:
<quoted text>Your vile bigotry is vulgar and insulting. The lives of unwanted children are no less important than anyone else's life. You and your ilk are a blight upon humanity that everyone would be much better off without.
Very good. Ad hominem always wins arguments........

The life of a fetus is absolutely less important to the unwillingly pregnant woman than to a happily expectant mother. The fact that you consider it equally important is irrelevant.

But even better, you show your hatred and duplicity by claiming in one breath that the lives of unwanted children are as important as any other but asserting in the next breath that the lives of people who support reproductive rights are so unimportant that we should die. You must be a christian.........
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2582 Apr 21, 2013
IRYW wrote:
<quoted text>
Very good. Ad hominem always wins arguments........
The life of a fetus is absolutely less important to the unwillingly pregnant woman than to a happily expectant mother. The fact that you consider it equally important is irrelevant.
But even better, you show your hatred and duplicity by claiming in one breath that the lives of unwanted children are as important as any other but asserting in the next breath that the lives of people who support reproductive rights are so unimportant that we should die. You must be a christian.........
What does killing babies because they are unwanted have to do with reproductive rights? Having the right to reproduce doesn't give anyone the right to kill anybody, unwanted or not. Your vile ageist bigotry is vulgar and obtuse.

PREAMBLE
Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world...
universal declaration of human rights
bible thumpers

Orlando, FL

#2583 Apr 21, 2013
GO HOME
IRYW

Allentown, PA

#2584 Apr 21, 2013
zef wrote:
<quoted text>No, people can afford the laws to lock up drunk drivers to prevent them from causing damage or death to others with their vehicles.
Actually we can't. Almost all of the DUI convictions result in comparatively minor fines and suspensions. If we actually locked up every DUI case it would be worse than locking up everyone who smoked a joint. The prisons couldn't hold them all.
zef wrote:
< As can people afford to lock up abortion providers and pregnant women soliciting abortions
Nope. Same statistical problem as with the DUI cases not to mention the issues associated with locking up millions of mothers with other young children at home.
zef wrote:
< Although, of course, citizens cannot afford the laws for enforcement and punishment of drug users, since most people that choose to use drugs only cause harm to themselves,
Many drug users cause harm to others; the distinction is important.
zef wrote:
< .........while pandering to the narcissistic spoiled pregnant women of our society, than to behave like civilized human beings? What police officer wants a bunch of arrogant women bitching at them and belittling them, when they could just as easily placate the masses by beating up on drug users?
So pregnant women are narcissistic, spoiled and arrogant? Interesting world you live in.
IRYW

Allentown, PA

#2585 Apr 21, 2013
zef wrote:
<quoted text>
What does killing babies because they are unwanted have to do with reproductive rights?
Nothing. Because abortion is not killing babies. Babies are born humans.
zef wrote:
<Having the right to reproduce doesn't give anyone the right to kill anybody, unwanted or not.
Reproductive rights aren't limited to the right to reproduce. They include the right NOT to reproduce (and don't reply with the lame "then don't have sex" line). Abortion is not killing, or murder, in any legal sense.
zef wrote:
<PREAMBLE
Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world...
universal declaration of human rights
This refers to born persons.
Godame

Tupelo, MS

#2586 Apr 21, 2013
"What police officer wants a bunch of arrogant women bitching at them and belittling them, when they could just as easily placate the masses by beating up on drug users? "
==========
Drunks are also drug users and most drive and do not get caught yet the crack baby costs society for many years. No society that is living on food stamps can not afford more children or government lockup. We can not even afford health care.
5000 children and 23000 adults die each day due to lack of clean water or food. Are you going to take care of them?
Godame

Tupelo, MS

#2587 Apr 21, 2013
"universal declaration of human rights "
==========
Funny that nature allows the strong to beat the weak no rights there. Rights are purely a government enforced human invention. We are far from understanding the universe.
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2588 Apr 21, 2013
IRYW wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually we can't. Almost all of the DUI convictions result in comparatively minor fines and suspensions. If we actually locked up every DUI case it would be worse than locking up everyone who smoked a joint. The prisons couldn't hold them all.
<quoted text>
Nope. Same statistical problem as with the DUI cases not to mention the issues associated with locking up millions of mothers with other young children at home.
<quoted text>
Many drug users cause harm to others; the distinction is important.
<quoted text>
So pregnant women are narcissistic, spoiled and arrogant? Interesting world you live in.
Every driver that fails a sobriety test is taken to jail without exception. And never released until long after they are sober again. Some drug users cause harm to others because drugs are illegal. You are insane.
IRYW

Allentown, PA

#2589 Apr 21, 2013
zef wrote:
<quoted text>
Every driver that fails a sobriety test is taken to jail without exception.
Wow. Do you always just make s**t up as you go? This is so demonstrably untrue that you should be embarrassed.
zef wrote:
< And never released until long after they are sober again..
Completely false.
zef wrote:
. Some drug users cause harm to others because drugs are illegal.
Drugs are illegal? Really? Tobacco? Alcohol? Percoset? There are thousands of legal drugs that, both in normal use as well as in abuse can induce behavior that causes the user to harm others. YOu cannot actually be this dense, right?
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2590 Apr 21, 2013
IRYW wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing. Because abortion is not killing babies. Babies are born humans.
<quoted text>
Reproductive rights aren't limited to the right to reproduce. They include the right NOT to reproduce (and don't reply with the lame "then don't have sex" line). Abortion is not killing, or murder, in any legal sense.
<quoted text>
This refers to born persons.
Reproductive means to reproduce. Reproductive rights means we have the right to reproduce. Killing your baby with abortion is not reproduction. Killing your baby with abortion is the opposite of reproduction. You are insane.

When a pregnant woman drinks alcohol, so does her unborn baby. Alcohol in the mother's blood passes through the placenta to the baby through the umbilical cord. Drinking alcohol during pregnancy can cause miscarriage, stillbirth, and a range of lifelong disorders, known as fetal alcohol spectrum disorders (FASDs). There is no known safe time to drink alcohol during pregnancy. Drinking alcohol in the first three months of pregnancy can cause the baby to have abnormal facial features. Growth and central nervous system problems (e.g., low birthweight, behavioral problems) can occur from drinking alcohol anytime during pregnancy. The baby’s brain is developing throughout pregnancy and can be damaged at any time.
If a woman is drinking alcohol during pregnancy, it is never too late to stop. The sooner a woman stops drinking, the better it will be for both her baby and herself.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 1600 Clifton Rd. Atlanta, GA 30333, USA
800-CDC-INFO (800-232-4636) TTY:(888) 232-6348
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/fasd/index.html
Godame

Tupelo, MS

#2591 Apr 21, 2013
zef wrote:
<quoted text>
Every driver that fails a sobriety test is taken to jail without exception. And never released until long after they are sober again. Some drug users cause harm to others because drugs are illegal. You are insane.
It is at the discretion of the police to give a test and some tests have subjective results. Then it goes to a judge which also uses subjective skills. Sobriety tests do not detect drugs. many drug users get them legally from poor doctors. In fact legal drugs cause more harm than illegal ones.
Godame

Tupelo, MS

#2592 Apr 21, 2013
zef wrote:
<quoted text>
Reproductive means to reproduce. Reproductive rights means we have the right to reproduce. Killing your baby with abortion is not reproduction. Killing your baby with abortion is the opposite of reproduction. You are insane.
When a pregnant woman drinks alcohol, so does her unborn baby. Alcohol in the mother's blood passes through the placenta to the baby through the umbilical cord. Drinking alcohol during pregnancy can cause miscarriage, stillbirth, and a range of lifelong disorders, known as fetal alcohol spectrum disorders (FASDs). There is no known safe time to drink alcohol during pregnancy. Drinking alcohol in the first three months of pregnancy can cause the baby to have abnormal facial features. Growth and central nervous system problems (e.g., low birthweight, behavioral problems) can occur from drinking alcohol anytime during pregnancy. The baby’s brain is developing throughout pregnancy and can be damaged at any time.
If a woman is drinking alcohol during pregnancy, it is never too late to stop. The sooner a woman stops drinking, the better it will be for both her baby and herself.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 1600 Clifton Rd. Atlanta, GA 30333, USA
800-CDC-INFO (800-232-4636) TTY:(888) 232-6348
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/fasd/index.html
FROM NBC: A British study shows children born to women who drank lightly during pregnancy appear to suffer no behavioral problems.
IRYW

Allentown, PA

#2593 Apr 21, 2013
zef wrote:
<quoted text>
Reproductive means to reproduce.
Actually, wordsmith, it doesn't. "To reproduce" is an infinitive verb...... the act of reproducing. Reproductive is an adjective.
zef wrote:
<. Reproductive rights means we have the right to reproduce.
No,, reproductive rights in virtually all discussions of contraception, family planning, abortion, etc. means the legal rights women have over their own bodies with regards to striving to become, or avoid becoming, pregnant.
zef wrote:
<. Killing your baby with abortion is not reproduction. Killing your baby with abortion is the opposite of reproduction.
Abortion is the legal cessation of the result of reproduction. Killing babies is illegal.
zef wrote:
<. When a pregnant woman drinks alcohol, so does her unborn baby. Alcohol in the mother's blood passes through the placenta to the baby through the umbilical cord. Drinking alcohol during pregnancy can cause miscarriage, stillbirth, and a range of lifelong disorders, known as fetal alcohol spectrum disorders (FASDs). There is no known safe time to drink alcohol during pregnancy. Drinking alcohol in the first three months of pregnancy can cause the baby to have abnormal facial features. Growth and central nervous system problems (e.g., low birthweight, behavioral problems) can occur from drinking alcohol anytime during pregnancy. The baby’s brain is developing throughout pregnancy and can be damaged at any time. If a woman is drinking alcohol during pregnancy, it is never too late to stop. The sooner a woman stops drinking, the better it will be for both her baby and herself.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 1600 Clifton Rd. Atlanta, GA 30333, USA
800-CDC-INFO (800-232-4636) TTY:(888) 232-6348
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/fasd/index.html
So, should pregnant women who drink be imprisoned for attempted murder? Your mentality seems to call for that.
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2594 Apr 21, 2013
Godame wrote:
<quoted text>
It is at the discretion of the police to give a test and some tests have subjective results. Then it goes to a judge which also uses subjective skills. Sobriety tests do not detect drugs. many drug users get them legally from poor doctors. In fact legal drugs cause more harm than illegal ones.
The point is, laws against drunk driving give the police the authority to take drunk drivers off the streets. Judges merely give drinkers the incentive to not drive drunk again. The point is, if people are forced to obtain illegal drugs if they want to use drugs, than women should be forced to obtain illegal abortions if they want to kill their babies.
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2595 Apr 21, 2013
IRYW wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, wordsmith, it doesn't. "To reproduce" is an infinitive verb...... the act of reproducing. Reproductive is an adjective.
<quoted text>
No,, reproductive rights in virtually all discussions of contraception, family planning, abortion, etc. means the legal rights women have over their own bodies with regards to striving to become, or avoid becoming, pregnant.
<quoted text>
Abortion is the legal cessation of the result of reproduction. Killing babies is illegal.
<quoted text>
So, should pregnant women who drink be imprisoned for attempted murder? Your mentality seems to call for that.
The result of reproduction is a baby. Cessation of the result of reproduction means killing the baby. Since abortion kills the baby that women are pregnant with, and abortion is legal, killing babies is legal. Abortion has nothing to do with avoiding becoming pregnant.
zef

Los Angeles, CA

#2596 Apr 21, 2013
Godame wrote:
<quoted text>
FROM NBC: A British study shows children born to women who drank lightly during pregnancy appear to suffer no behavioral problems.
You serve alcohol to minors just because the british tells you its not harmful?
IRYW

Allentown, PA

#2597 Apr 21, 2013
zef wrote:
<quoted text>
The point is, laws against drunk driving give the police the authority to take drunk drivers off the streets..
Agreed.. So why did you make all that other s**t up?
zef wrote:
< Judges merely give drinkers the incentive to not drive drunk again..
Actually, judges simply rule on established laws and decide on punishment within guidelines.
zef wrote:
< The point is, if people are forced to obtain illegal drugs if they want to use drugs, than women should be forced to obtain illegal abortions if they want to kill their babies.
Logic isn't your forte, is it? You can't seem to distinguish between legal and illegal drugs. You can't seem to distinguish between use and abuse. You live in a black and white world. For example, the abuse of legal drugs is demonstrably way more damaging in our society than the responsible use of illegal drugs. In your world, you cannot process that subtlety. Women don't want to 'kill their babies'. You use that phrase to inflame and polarize, not to have a discussion. Women have looked to terminate unwanted pregnancies at least since recorded history and have done so whether it was legal or illegal. The only difference is, when abortion is illegal women often suffer horrible injuries or death from illegal abortions.

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