With acquittal, abuse case collapses

With acquittal, abuse case collapses

There are 74 comments on the The Indianapolis Star story from Aug 31, 2007, titled With acquittal, abuse case collapses. In it, The Indianapolis Star reports that:

Any hope prosecutors had of winning a major conviction out of a sex scandal at the Marion County juvenile lockup vanished Friday when they lost their case against the former superintendent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Indianapolis Star.

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WTR

Indianapolis, IN

#66 Sep 3, 2007
MOUNTAIN LADY wrote:
<quoted text>Don't pay attention to WTR. He's an odd duck. I've seen his posts elsewhere and he's a troll who is mad at the world.
quack quack
Ben

United States

#67 Sep 3, 2007
Victim wrote:
<quoted text>All people are different. Obviously one of the girls did testify. And if 12 normal everyday people could tell this was a lie then our prosecutors should have been able to. Yes, one girl did get on the stand and smile, not know what story was right, and was obviously liing. Im sorry if people are sick in the world and allowed to do this but that's not always the case. When you read the transcripts and the actual cases they had and evidence then im sure you like everyother citizen in the world will know what happened here. Re-election time. You see at first Brizzi was in the media "gonna get this predetors", then u never heard from him again after election. Well maybe he actually sat down and read the evidence. that's what happened. I still haven't heard from him about this issue again? So when will there be an apology to these men and their families? Never, usually all people just let things fade away when they are wrong.
hi, you pose an interesting theory... which may be exactly right. Serioulsy there was abuse at Indiana girls schools and at ALL of the Indiana Boys schools. go to the US Dept of Justice Website and serach for juvenile department fo corrections. it may take a bit but you will see in their csae findings these boys had broken jaws, had been molested and many horrifying events. This is documented. These are about boys, but it is also happening with the girls and I think Commisioner David Donahue was trying to save himself along wioth Mitch Danials. they are both aware of the abuse. There was a full fledge investigation headed up at Girls School and not a damn thing happened. And why is there MALE guards working at Girls School anyway? AAND>>> why are the girls put on birth control upon entering? hmmmm disgusting points to ponder. good, thought... maybe they came up with this stunt so when REAL allegations were brought forth... they would be ignored by the public.
UGH makes me sick
Anonymous

Indianapolis, IN

#68 Sep 3, 2007
Brizzi did not go after these people for fun or political profit. A prosecutor's job is to let the Judge or Jury decide the guilt or innocence of someone after the State has provided all of its evidence.

Otherwise, you would have prosecutors independently deciding the guilt or innocence of people without due process. If he was innocent, Mr. Ellison is an example of the system working as it should, not the other way around.
foot in your mouth

Indianapolis, IN

#69 Sep 3, 2007
LUCK wrote:
Ellison is lucky that Brizzi wasnt up for reelection this year or Brizzi would have worked to convict him ...as it was, he just had his office blow this case off..........
Blow it off??? I went and watched some of Damon's trial. If you think Carl Brizzi sends Barbara Crawford and Rom Byron, assisted by their star law student intern is him blowing it off, just be glad you werent in Ellison's chair. I asked around about them. From what I was told, there isn't much better in the city. Damon is very fortunate to have had Jim Voyles to stand up for him.
Law Prof

AOL

#70 Sep 3, 2007
Anonymous wrote:
Brizzi did not go after these people for fun or political profit. A prosecutor's job is to let the Judge or Jury decide the guilt or innocence of someone after the State has provided all of its evidence.
Otherwise, you would have prosecutors independently deciding the guilt or innocence of people without due process. If he was innocent, Mr. Ellison is an example of the system working as it should, not the other way around.
Absolutely correct.
INTERESTED CITIZEN

Cincinnati, OH

#71 Sep 7, 2007
The Brizzi saga continues to disrupt families and individuals without sufficient investigation and evidence -shame on this administration for making their political moves harm individuals - there should be repercussions for Brizzi equal to the harm caused to the individuals charged wrongfully in this incident.
TO THE PROFESSOR

Cincinnati, OH

#72 Sep 7, 2007
I disagree with your comment that the acts of Brizzi administration for the arrests of all the individuals from the juvenile center were not for political gain. If no gain was wanted, proper investigations would have occurred prior to adversely effecting the individuals lives for almost two years - I believe arrests should be made if there is ample question of innocence or guilt and evidence to support the questions but not when there is no evidence to support the allegations and the individual is actually out of state for part of the charges. This alone should have presented ample reason to doubt the young accussor. In certain situations the arrest was rushed prior to even checking the work records of the individual accused.
Law Prof

AOL

#73 Sep 7, 2007
TO THE PROFESSOR wrote:
I disagree with your comment that the acts of Brizzi administration for the arrests of all the individuals from the juvenile center were not for political gain. If no gain was wanted, proper investigations would have occurred prior to adversely effecting the individuals lives for almost two years - I believe arrests should be made if there is ample question of innocence or guilt and evidence to support the questions but not when there is no evidence to support the allegations and the individual is actually out of state for part of the charges. This alone should have presented ample reason to doubt the young accussor. In certain situations the arrest was rushed prior to even checking the work records of the individual accused.
You seem to believe that a prosecutor can know with certainty how a case is going to come out. If you honestly think they filed these charges believing that the lack of evidence would ultimately result in acquittals, you are seriously naive and you've been watching too many conspiracy theory movies.

Sometimes prosecutors believe the victim and think they're sufficiently credible that even without physical evidence or corroborating witnesses, they can still win. They do that because they believe the defendant is guilty. No one's going after innocent people for political gain except Nifong. He's such an anomaly that his case has been national news for months.

Whenever I see posts from individuals spewing all kinds of theories about corrupt prosecutors filing unsubstantiated charges against innocent people for political gain, it tells me a lot about the persons making the allegations. I'm reminded of the towering words of Justice Clark in his 1917 dissent:

"It is not uncommon for ignorant and corrupt men to falsely charge others with doing what they imagine that they themselves, in their narrow minds and experience, would have done under the circumstances." Valdez v. United States, 244 U.S. 432, 450 (1917).
TO THE PROFESSOR

Cincinnati, OH

#74 Sep 8, 2007
STRAGE COMMENT MR. PROFESSOR THANK-YOU FOR YOUR INPUT AND OPINION BUT OPINIONS DO NOT RESULT IN CHARGES TO INDIVIDUALS
wjh

Marysville, OH

#75 Sep 8, 2007
Betty Boop wrote:
Did some of you people even read this story. There was no jury. He waived his right to a jury trial. The judge decided the verdict. Very possible a jury would have convicted.
You can't fool a judge as easy as getting twelve people to disagree. A jury trial is always easier to win. Anyway in the case of Dannorris A. Harvey, if the proper investigation was done, why did it take two years to realize that he could not have committed these crimes when he was in a different state. Even after finding out this information they chose to prolong the investigation throughout the election. Draging his and other names through the mud. This is complete unacceptable. Even the Juvenile System was to dump to check there records and see that he was on vacation. To do your job is one thing but to destroy innocent people lives without proper investigation is wrong. This sound exaxtly like the Duke case. I forgot the police could have learned the truth in Dannorris Harvey case two years ago but refuse to talk to him because he hired a lawyer but who needs investigation with this prosecution office. In actuality they won because now they get to play dump while still elected and these innocent mens get to rebuild there life. Who needs justice like that.
wjh

Marysville, OH

#76 Sep 8, 2007
Law Prof wrote:
<quoted text>You seem to believe that a prosecutor can know with certainty how a case is going to come out. If you honestly think they filed these charges believing that the lack of evidence would ultimately result in acquittals, you are seriously naive and you've been watching too many conspiracy theory movies.
Sometimes prosecutors believe the victim and think they're sufficiently credible that even without physical evidence or corroborating witnesses, they can still win. They do that because they believe the defendant is guilty. No one's going after innocent people for political gain except Nifong. He's such an anomaly that his case has been national news for months.
Whenever I see posts from individuals spewing all kinds of theories about corrupt prosecutors filing unsubstantiated charges against innocent people for political gain, it tells me a lot about the persons making the allegations. I'm reminded of the towering words of Justice Clark in his 1917 dissent:
"It is not uncommon for ignorant and corrupt men to falsely charge others with doing what they imagine that they themselves, in their narrow minds and experience, would have done under the circumstances." Valdez v. United States, 244 U.S. 432, 450 (1917).
How can you believe some one is guilty without an investigation. Before changing a person life you should make sure you have a valid reason. It clear that Marion County follow a different code of standard. If some one accused you of something that you did not do and you was arrested and dragged through the mud for two years without investigation, how would that feel like. After the girls came up with these charges the police and prosecution should have made sure that these charges had some accountability before destroying these innocent guys life. Point blank. It could be you or even me the next time. So I hope all these guys teach Marion County a lesson.
Miller

AOL

#77 Sep 8, 2007
wjh wrote:
<quoted text>
How can you believe some one is guilty without an investigation. Before changing a person life you should make sure you have a valid reason. It clear that Marion County follow a different code of standard. If some one accused you of something that you did not do and you was arrested and dragged through the mud for two years without investigation, how would that feel like. After the girls came up with these charges the police and prosecution should have made sure that these charges had some accountability before destroying these innocent guys life. Point blank. It could be you or even me the next time. So I hope all these guys teach Marion County a lesson.
I am with you on this. Good points were made!
TO THE PROFESSOR

Cincinnati, OH

#78 Sep 8, 2007
How can you believe some one is guilty without an investigation. Before changing a person's life one should make certain to have a valid reason. It's clear that Marion County follows a different code of standard. If some one is accused of something and you were arrested and dragged through the mud for two years without investigation, this would most certainly make anyone feel angry and persecuted. After the young juvenile ladies came up with these charges the police and prosecution should have made certain that the charges had some validity before destroying these innocent guys lives. Point blank. It could be you or even me the next time. So I hope all these guys are able to get satifaction in the end.
Law Prof

AOL

#79 Sep 8, 2007
wjh wrote:
<quoted text>
How can you believe some one is guilty without an investigation. Before changing a person life you should make sure you have a valid reason. It clear that Marion County follow a different code of standard. If some one accused you of something that you did not do and you was arrested and dragged through the mud for two years without investigation, how would that feel like. After the girls came up with these charges the police and prosecution should have made sure that these charges had some accountability before destroying these innocent guys life. Point blank. It could be you or even me the next time. So I hope all these guys teach Marion County a lesson.
You say such stupid things, it's hard to respond. Without an investigation? Do you mean without a sufficient investigation? Because there was an investigation. If you actually read the story, you'll see that a search warrant was issued by a neutral and detached magistrate. A judge issued that warrant. Search warrants are issued ONLY when a judge determines that there is probable cause to believe that a crime was committed and that evidence of that crime will be found where they are looking. So, an investigation occurred.

Obviously the police who conducted the investigation thought they had a case. Trained, seasoned police officers conducted the investigation -- that we have now established DID occur -- and concluded that there was a crime. A search warrant based on probable cause -- not POSSIBLE cause -- PROBABLE CAUSE, was issued.

Now, based on all that charges were filed. So, an investigation was conducted, probable cause was determined by a neutral and detached magistrate, and the cases went to trial. So...where did Brizzi and company go wrong?

Probably in their estimation that they had, not PROBABLE cause, which they clearly had, but proof BEYOND a reasonable doubt. Their reckoning was off. They were wrong. They thought they had enough, but they didn't. That's bad judgment on the part of the charging prosecutors, but it doesn't indicate or even hint at impropriety, unless evidence was hidden or suppressed at the probable cause hearings.

Do you or anyone ACTUALLY believe that Brizzi or anyone in his organization thought the cases would ultimately result in acquittals? Not in a million years. They THOUGHT they had enough to prove the case. A judge thought they had PROBABLE, not POSSIBLE, cause.

Now, having said that, what SHOULD Brizzi and company have done? They should have TESTED the case in a grand jury. Had they done this, the whole fiasco probably wouldn't have happened.

Does it look bad? Heck yes it does. One investigation -- note that there was one -- should not result in back to back, repeated acquittals. It does happen, but it's usually not this high profile. Where the witnesses are a bunch of delinquents, it would have been smart to grand jury the whole thing and see what you have and how good it is.

But the notion that they did this to get elected and then didn't care about the result is ludicrous to the point of establishing anyone who believes such nonsense as a silver hat wearing paranoid.

It's fatuous.

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