Ill. House Approves Legalizing Same-Sex Civil Unions

Nov 30, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: CBS2

The Illinois House has approved a measure to legalize civil unions for same-sex couples.

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“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

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#42254
Sep 24, 2013
 
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>

Hearing impaired receive extra support and respect exactly because they do acknowledge their handicap.
We don't have a handicap. Therefore, the only thing we have to acknowledge is that we are fabulous.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Nor have homosexuals established their own identity./QUOTE]

We have established an identity; it's called marriage. If you can't share a word, then call yours "holy matrimony". The federal government has spoken, and we have marriage.

[QUOTE who="KiMare"]<quo ted text>

Live with it.
Indeed, live with it.

Still married and your mental masturbations and verbal ejaculations are powerless to do anything about it.

Impotent troll.

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

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#42255
Sep 24, 2013
 
We have established an identity; it's called marriage. If you can't share a word, then call yours "holy matrimony". The federal government has spoken, and we have marriage.
Kresimir

Irvine, CA

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#42256
Sep 24, 2013
 
beers wrote:
<quoted text>
Perception is reality? Have you talked to a drunk person before?
Drunk? Yeah I sometimes talk to myself when I'm drunk. What's your point?
Kresimir

Irvine, CA

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#42257
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Dusty Mangina wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't have a handicap. Therefore, the only thing we have to acknowledge is that we are fabulous.
<quoted text>
Indeed, live with it.
Still married and your mental masturbations and verbal ejaculations are powerless to do anything about it.
Impotent troll.
I don't think he's trolling, just severely misinformed and having difficulty reconciling his personal conceptions of how the world should work with the current reality. It sounds like trolling because he's basically trying to defend the indefensible.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

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#42258
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
You were the one who originally labelled LGBT people as "defective".
Then I made a post that was meant to point out the ridiculousness of such a comparison. I even debated with myself for a moment whether or not to include the "sarcasm" tag, because I thought it would be obvious, but evidently it still went over your head.
You're the one with the misconception, and when I try to point it out to you, you accuse me of backtracking? Have a little humility please.
There's no LGBT culture? Excuse me? Have ever been to a pride parade, or even just stepped inside a gay bar? Do you know any of the terminology that gay people use to communicate discreetly? Have you seen the rainbow flags, the angel/devil wings, people in drag, or just breathed in the relaxed atmosphere? I don't know whether your statement was made in supreme ignorance or just out a refusal to accept, but this is about as cultural as it gets.
And not to mention that you haven't even begun to address my other points.
You have yet to post one valid source that disputes the failure of homosexual mating behavior. And why there is a desperate attempt to discover the cause and purpose of that orientation.

You also need to learn the difference between identity and culture, or more likely, quit the deceitful attempt to shift the point.

I addressed your other points when I noted your red herrings.

This remains;

At it's most basic essence,

Marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior.

Ss couples are a defective failure of mating behavior.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

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#42259
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
Finally, I would like to add that even though you may view gayness as a defect, not everyone shares your opinion. Just as left-handedness isn't viewed as a defect by most people today (it was in certain societies in the past)
Not acknowledging one's left-handedness is trying to write with your right hand anyway, rather than developing healthy writing habits with your left.
Not acknowledging one's homosexuality is trying to get into heterosexual relationships anyway, rather than developing a healthy relationship with someone who you can love back.
1. Evolution is a process of constant mutation. Some mutations have a positive effect, and others do not. All have a cause and effect that scientist seek to evaluate. They are not benign as you attempt to insinuate.

2. Additionally, homosexuality relates to sexuality while left-handedness is believed to relate primarily to survival. They are a repeating mutation.

Here is an example of a overview of left-handedness. You find me a similar one on homosexuality.

http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/conten...
Kresimir

Irvine, CA

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#42260
Sep 25, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Evolution is a process of constant mutation. Some mutations have a positive effect, and others do not. All have a cause and effect that scientist seek to evaluate. They are not benign as you attempt to insinuate.
2. Additionally, homosexuality relates to sexuality while left-handedness is believed to relate primarily to survival. They are a repeating mutation.
Here is an example of a overview of left-handedness. You find me a similar one on homosexuality.
http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/conten...
Again, you miss the forest for the trees. In this day and age, does it really matter if a certain trait served some evolutionary purpose some millions of years ago? Are we living in those same conditions under which natural selection operated? Do we care so much about past evolutionarily advantageous traits that we'll let it translate into social discrimination? Those are rhetorical questions by the way, since it seems like literary subtlety is rather counterproductive here.
Kresimir

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#42261
Sep 25, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Evolution is a process of constant mutation. Some mutations have a positive effect, and others do not. All have a cause and effect that scientist seek to evaluate. They are not benign as you attempt to insinuate.
2. Additionally, homosexuality relates to sexuality while left-handedness is believed to relate primarily to survival. They are a repeating mutation.
Here is an example of a overview of left-handedness. You find me a similar one on homosexuality.
http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/conten...
Reading your post further, I have to resent your appeal to science, since it's obvious you're not a scientist where it counts. Your very first sentence illustrates a very shallow understanding of evolutionary biology. Evolution is not "a process of constant mutation"...

Since: Jun 11

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#42262
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think he's trolling, just severely misinformed and having difficulty reconciling his personal conceptions of how the world should work with the current reality. It sounds like trolling because he's basically trying to defend the indefensible.
Notice the reliance on dehumanization and stigmatization.

This goes far beyond a resistance to assimilate new information, to promoting a prejudice intended to justify harming those viewed as less than deserving of equal human rights.

Many have tried, but your efforts are appreciated, and exposing prejudice as irrational is always a worthy effort, whether the person promoting prejudice benefits and grows or not.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

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#42263
Sep 25, 2013
 

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Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, you miss the forest for the trees. In this day and age, does it really matter if a certain trait served some evolutionary purpose some millions of years ago? Are we living in those same conditions under which natural selection operated? Do we care so much about past evolutionarily advantageous traits that we'll let it translate into social discrimination? Those are rhetorical questions by the way, since it seems like literary subtlety is rather counterproductive here.
Here we go again...

YOU brought up the evolutionary comparison. Now it doesn't matter???

Only because you don't care about truth, science or reality. You have made your decision.

Further, your attempt to minimize is silly stupid! Mating behavior is not just any old evolutionary trait you can take or leave. It is no different than saying we can take or leave breathing air, or drinking water.

Here is what you keep trying to slime around and can't;

At it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior.

Ss couples are a defective and total failure of mating behavior.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

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#42264
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
Reading your post further, I have to resent your appeal to science, since it's obvious you're not a scientist where it counts. Your very first sentence illustrates a very shallow understanding of evolutionary biology. Evolution is not "a process of constant mutation"...
You 'resent'???

LOL, too funny.

Here, start with Evolution 101;

Read both pages

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/...
Kresimir

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#42265
Sep 25, 2013
 

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Notice the reliance on dehumanization and stigmatization.
This goes far beyond a resistance to assimilate new information, to promoting a prejudice intended to justify harming those viewed as less than deserving of equal human rights.
Many have tried, but your efforts are appreciated, and exposing prejudice as irrational is always a worthy effort, whether the person promoting prejudice benefits and grows or not.
Thanks. Out of curiosity I decided to visit the California forums, since I don't normally post here. It's the same people posting the same ignorant stuff. Some people just absolutely refuse to admit when they're wrong.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You also need to learn the difference between identity and culture, or more likely, quit the deceitful attempt to shift the point.
I addressed your other points when I noted your red herrings.
A culture encompasses an identity. You could replace the word "culture" with "identity" in my previous post and the point would still stand.

None of what I posted was red herrings. It's just you that refuses to see the larger context and instead focuses on the narrow and trivial stuff such as same sex couples not being able to procreate inside their marriage (yet).

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

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#42266
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks. Out of curiosity I decided to visit the California forums, since I don't normally post here. It's the same people posting the same ignorant stuff. Some people just absolutely refuse to admit when they're wrong.
<quoted text>
A culture encompasses an identity. You could replace the word "culture" with "identity" in my previous post and the point would still stand.
None of what I posted was red herrings. It's just you that refuses to see the larger context and instead focuses on the narrow and trivial stuff such as same sex couples not being able to procreate inside their marriage (yet).
Culture and identity are very distinct. They do not equate.

You keep trying to avoid the points you responded to and change to others. I'm not letting you.

Procreation is not 'trivial' to marriage.
Kresimir

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#42267
Sep 25, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
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You 'resent'???
LOL, too funny.
Here, start with Evolution 101;
Read both pages
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/...
I resent it, yes, because too often I see social conservatives rejecting science as a whole while clinging to shallow (and usually incorrect) interpretations of it when it will suit their worldview. Social Darwinism for example.

Mutations make up only a small part of the forces which drive evolution. You also have things like genetic drift, and natural selection which I already mentioned, which are much bigger contributors.

Oh... and I haven't addressed this:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
At it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior.

Ss couples are a defective and total failure of mating behavior.
because this is a crackpot conjecture that you pulled out of your ass, with no scientific basis whatsoever.
Kresimir

Irvine, CA

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#42268
Sep 25, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Culture and identity are very distinct. They do not equate.
This is true. I said that a culture encompasses an identity. If you have your own culture, then you have your own identity.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Procreation is not 'trivial' to marriage.
You can have procreation without marriage. You can have marriage without procreation. Marriage is a social faculty, while procreation is a biological one. It might be your personal opinion that their correlation should hold primacy, but that's just it. In today's society, marriage is about love, companionship, and ultimately happiness. Procreation is a secondary concern at best.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#42269
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
I resent it, yes, because too often I see social conservatives rejecting science as a whole while clinging to shallow (and usually incorrect) interpretations of it when it will suit their worldview. Social Darwinism for example.
Mutations make up only a small part of the forces which drive evolution. You also have things like genetic drift, and natural selection which I already mentioned, which are much bigger contributors.
Oh... and I haven't addressed this:
<quoted text>
because this is a crackpot conjecture that you pulled out of your ass, with no scientific basis whatsoever.
That's interesting, because so far, you have been the one avoiding and then misstating science.

You are so desperate. Mutations make up a 'small part'? You keep exposing your idiocy. Mutations are an integral part of evolution as are the ones you mentioned and more.

Please be specific about my statement, and make sure you show EVERY part having ABSOLUTELY no scientific basis. Otherwise, your opinion has absolutely no basis...

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

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#42270
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
This is true. I said that a culture encompasses an identity. If you have your own culture, then you have your own identity.
<quoted text>
You can have procreation without marriage. You can have marriage without procreation. Marriage is a social faculty, while procreation is a biological one. It might be your personal opinion that their correlation should hold primacy, but that's just it. In today's society, marriage is about love, companionship, and ultimately happiness. Procreation is a secondary concern at best.
Marriage in a culture has it's own identity. Ss couples have their own identity as you stated. They do not identify with marriage.

In fact, marriage is a cross cultural identity. Ss couple have never been even openly accepted in a single culture from start to finish. Something that devastatingly exposes their lack of identity with marriage.

Social scientists assert that marriage would not exist were it not for children. Humanity would digress to lower life forms who take little responsibility for their offspring.

You are talking out of your ass again...
Kresimir

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#42271
Sep 25, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
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That's interesting, because so far, you have been the one avoiding and then misstating science.
You are so desperate. Mutations make up a 'small part'? You keep exposing your idiocy. Mutations are an integral part of evolution as are the ones you mentioned and more.
Please be specific about my statement, and make sure you show EVERY part having ABSOLUTELY no scientific basis. Otherwise, your opinion has absolutely no basis...
Smile.
Your exact words were "Evolution is a process of constant mutation". This is patently false, as it implies that mutations are the primary driver of evolution, or that evolution itself is constantly mutating. Now you're making a little more sense, but that's not the impression you were giving me before.

Still, there this. You're the one with the bizarre claim correlating marriage with evolution. You tell me why you think this is a valid statement.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

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#42272
Sep 25, 2013
 
Kresimir wrote:
<quoted text>
Your exact words were "Evolution is a process of constant mutation". This is patently false, as it implies that mutations are the primary driver of evolution, or that evolution itself is constantly mutating. Now you're making a little more sense, but that's not the impression you were giving me before.
Still, there this. You're the one with the bizarre claim correlating marriage with evolution. You tell me why you think this is a valid statement.
http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/dna-...

I said marriage is a constraint on mating behavior. You claimed every part was false, why do I need to explain something you supposedly know?
Kresimir

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#42273
Sep 26, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/dna-...
I said marriage is a constraint on mating behavior. You claimed every part was false, why do I need to explain something you supposedly know?
You don't need to explain to me what mutation does, or its significance. Anyone who passed high-school biology could tell you that.

What you need to explain is why you think marriage is a constraint on "evolutionary" mating behavior "at its most basic essence". Since you can't explain its merits, I'll give you its faults.

All animals reproduce sexually. Some animals find mates before they reproduce. No animals "marry", in the human sense.

Because for humans, whose emotions and social interactions are much more complex than any other animal, marriage, at its most basic essence, is about commitment. Social commitment. Not a commitment to have sex (men with ED), not a commitment to have children (post-menopausal women), but a commitment to each other. And when you consider this, denying marriage to two people who happen to be the same gender makes no sense.

Back in the middle ages, where society placed a large emphasis on nobility through family heritage, marriage was a socially-approved way to legitimize one's bloodline. Do we still talk about concepts like legitimate children vs. bastards today? Maybe if you live in Saudi Arabia. But the point is, in today's enlightened society, marriages and progeny are no longer considered to have a cause-and-effect relationship, not in theory, and not in practice. And these concepts are enshrined within the US DoI, in the phrase "all men are created equal", as is the idea of allowing ss couples to participate in civil institutions such as marriage.

So your statement, regarding marriage primarily being about constraining evolutionary mating behavior, is incorrect and beyond simplistic. Not surprising, when you try to draw sociological conclusions from biological premises.

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