Jodi Arias claims self-defense as mur...

Jodi Arias claims self-defense as murder trial begins

There are 7233 comments on the KTVK Phoenix story from Jan 2, 2013, titled Jodi Arias claims self-defense as murder trial begins. In it, KTVK Phoenix reports that:

A defense attorney says an Arizona woman charged with stabbing and shooting her boyfriend to death in 2008 acted in self-defense because he was violent and abusive.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at KTVK Phoenix.

LA Guy

United States

#407 Feb 25, 2013
wheezy_1969 wrote:
It doesn't really matter if he lied or pretended to be something he wasn't.
Jodi Arias admitted to killing him in self defense.
The jury needs to either believe it was self defense or not.
This has nothing to do with whether she "snapped" or was so emotionally abused, she freaked out.
The prosecution claims that it was 'heinous and cruel crime' and the judge agreed, and that is why the death penalty is on there, still.
Arizona Law: 13-404. Justification; self-defense
A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, a person is justified in threatening or using physical force against another when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force.
B. The threat or use of physical force against another is not justified:
1. In response to verbal provocation alone; or
2. To resist an arrest that the person knows or should know is being made by a peace officer or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, whether the arrest is lawful or unlawful, unless the physical force used by the peace officer exceeds that allowed by law; or
3. If the person provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force, unless:
(a) The person withdraws from the encounter or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely withdraw from the encounter; and
(b) The other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful physical force against the person.
Thank's, Wheezy, for posting this. This may be a case where the Jury does not follow the law in the simple sense it was written. Perceptiion of Self Defense does not fit in a tidy little box and remember that evidence (Texts, Tapes) bolster that she was abused.
Doubt if this will be a jury who follows the law down to the tee.
Remember, the Battered Woman syndrome which affected her state of mind, will weigh heavy in their decision. There has to be one or more of the jurors who are outraged at the way Travis debased her. Look for a Hung Jury (Mistrial).

This case is Overcharged, she should have been allowed to plead guilty to a Manslaughter(10 years) and justice would have been served.

Wheezy, do us a favor and research provisions of Manslaughter or whatever the lowest charge of Homicide is in Arizona.
LA Guy

United States

#408 Feb 25, 2013
This is a Reasonable Doubt Case as charged and in favor of Jody.

Battered Women act out in all sorts of irrational ways, and most go through the lie and deny routine post arrest. It is also not entirely uncommon for them to pre-arm themselves.

Slayer

Auburn, AL

#409 Feb 25, 2013
wheezy_1969 wrote:
It doesn't really matter if he lied or pretended to be something he wasn't.
Jodi Arias admitted to killing him in self defense.
The jury needs to either believe it was self defense or not.
This has nothing to do with whether she "snapped" or was so emotionally abused, she freaked out.
It does matter that Jodi was aware that Travis was 'different' with her; he was more violent, more prone to anger, a demanding sexual dynamo -- something his other girlfriends didn't see nor experience from him. The only real reason a woman would 'overkill' a victim is she is concerned that his strength is beyond normal, and the only way to make certain he is incapacitated is to 'overkill' him. Maybe that's what happened.
wheezy_1969 wrote:
The prosecution claims that it was 'heinous and cruel crime' and the judge agreed, and that is why the death penalty is on there, still.
Much will involve the order of weapons used - did she shoot him first or last? Did he linger suffering, knowing he was about to die and powerless to call for help? That would have been cruel. JA didn't help herself when she answered that before she visited the Utah male friend, she said she didn't know if TA was alive. She knew she was dead IMO.
wheezy_1969 wrote:
Arizona Law: 13-404. Justification; self-defense
A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, a person is justified in threatening or using physical force against another when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force.
This is what the jury must decide, isn't it? I'm very curious to see what can be proven or disproven in court. I don't have any special sympathy for JA except I do understand some of her rage against TA and think it's interesting WHY so many people didn't see that side of her before TA.

LA Guy

United States

#410 Feb 25, 2013
Slayer

The forensics are questionable. I previously posted on this. Will be interesting if the defense calls an expert. They may just pass on it, and fast forward to behavorial experts.

Believe it was the renown Dr Henry Lee, in OJ, who stated "Something Wrong Here"
Kaligirlsam

United States

#411 Feb 25, 2013
It is so unatural for someone who is on trial for their life to be enjoying it so much. The change in her demeanor from talking to her lawyer to the prosecutor is just bazaar. She a controlling pathological liar who couldnt get her way with Travis.
Good Day

Lincoln, CA

#412 Feb 25, 2013
Kaligirlsam wrote:
It is so unatural for someone who is on trial for their life to be enjoying it so much. The change in her demeanor from talking to her lawyer to the prosecutor is just bazaar. She a controlling pathological liar who couldnt get her way with Travis.
==========
Her lawyer is a safe haven. TA wasn't. The DA isn't.
What is the mystery about her behvior on the stand?
Have you been watching the entire trial?
They had such a sick relationship for so long, it was doomed when TA began verbally, emotionally, and even sexual abusing her. It didn't happen overnight. Good grief.
Of course she wanted TA, and because of that she stayed beyond the point of no return.* He's not my type, but I could understand how JA was attracted to him.
Slayer

Auburn, AL

#413 Feb 25, 2013
Caught about two hours of live testimony - Jodi is being meek and sullen today, not challenging Martinez as much as last Thursday. Martinez has scored some points -- notice he took my advice about simplifying the questioning and let the jury understand what he's trying to establish.

Today Martinez is emphasizing the lies told and Jodi's behavior following the killing. He's trying to establish if Jodi knew Travis was alive or dead when she left his house. She's doing as well as she can to evade, but she needs to answer this -- will make a big difference as explained earlier on here. If she didn't know he was dead, it would have been cruel to let him linger, dying slowly. M. is also covering specific actions of Jodi to throw others -- friends, family, and investigators, off her trail. First time I heard about Jodi sending flowers and a sympathy note to TA's grandmother who had raised him; Jodi said it was delivered to her on June 13, 2008, according to delivery confirmation email.

Important: Martinez asked JA about the time she attempted suicide in prison, cutting herself with a razor, but stopped b/c there was a painful sting. Then he added loudly: "Imagine how painful it was for Travis when you stabbed him in the chest!" (or very similiar words). Jodi did sincerely begin to cry at that thought.

“Do or do not. There is no try.”

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#414 Feb 25, 2013
Is the ultimate goal, for the defense, to save Jodi from the death penalty–nothing more and nothing less?

No, the ultimate goal would be to get a verdict of ‘Not Guilty’ from the jury which is seemingly feasible considering she is charged with premeditated first degree murder and burglary…that’s it! There are no lesser charges for the jury to consider, although they can suggest a lesser charge(s) which will most likely happen if they cannot convict her of first degree murder and burglary.

Defense tried to get the lesser charge of 2nd degree murder, back in 2011, but they denied it.
Kaligirlsam

Ocala, FL

#415 Feb 25, 2013
Good Day wrote:
<quoted text>
==========
Her lawyer is a safe haven. TA wasn't. The DA isn't.
What is the mystery about her behvior on the stand?
Have you been watching the entire trial?
They had such a sick relationship for so long, it was doomed when TA began verbally, emotionally, and even sexual abusing her. It didn't happen overnight. Good grief.
Of course she wanted TA, and because of that she stayed beyond the point of no return.* He's not my type, but I could understand how JA was attracted to him.
I'm just saying I hope the jury notices how schizo her behavior is. I agree with all you are saying. After the Casey fiasco nothing is a sure that it is coming thru the way we may see it.
Slayer

Auburn, AL

#416 Feb 25, 2013
wheezy_1969 wrote:
Is the ultimate goal, for the defense, to save Jodi from the death penalty–nothing more and nothing less?
Surely avoiding the death penalty is first priority.
wheezy_1969 wrote:
No, the ultimate goal would be to get a verdict of ‘Not Guilty’ from the jury which is seemingly feasible considering she is charged with premeditated first degree murder and burglary…that’s it!


A 'not guilty' verdict is a lot to hope for, besides Travis and his family do deserve some level of justice. Not sure where the 'burglary' charge is from? Do you mean taking the gun that supposed to have been Travis's gun?
wheezy_1969 wrote:
There are no lesser charges for the jury to consider, although they can suggest a lesser charge(s) which will most likely happen if they cannot convict her of first degree murder and burglary.
Defense tried to get the lesser charge of 2nd degree murder, back in 2011, but they denied it.
Depends on what state of AZ allows jury to do.'LA Guy' seems to be convinced that the jury will be unable to reach a verdict; I'm hoping they reach a verdict even if it's a compromise -- which usually means a lesser charge that no one likes.
LA Guy

United States

#417 Feb 25, 2013
Slayer wrote:
Caught about two hours of live testimony - Jodi is being meek and sullen today, not challenging Martinez as much as last Thursday. Martinez has scored some points -- notice he took my advice about simplifying the questioning and let the jury understand what he's trying to establish.
Today Martinez is emphasizing the lies told and Jodi's behavior following the killing. He's trying to establish if Jodi knew Travis was alive or dead when she left his house. She's doing as well as she can to evade, but she needs to answer this -- will make a big difference as explained earlier on here. If she didn't know he was dead, it would have been cruel to let him linger, dying slowly. M. is also covering specific actions of Jodi to throw others -- friends, family, and investigators, off her trail. First time I heard about Jodi sending flowers and a sympathy note to TA's grandmother who had raised him; Jodi said it was delivered to her on June 13, 2008, according to delivery confirmation email.
Important: Martinez asked JA about the time she attempted suicide in prison, cutting herself with a razor, but stopped b/c there was a painful sting. Then he added loudly: "Imagine how painful it was for Travis when you stabbed him in the chest!" (or very similiar words). Jodi did sincerely begin to cry at that thought.
Just caught about five minutes and HLN highlighted the above testimony you described. All know she hyper lied to the cops, friends and the media. Martinez is way overplaying his hand, and it just may play into the defense strategy...This could bolster her Battered Woman defense, since in many cases their irritatioinal behavoir follows her pattern.

Martinez, was way out of line in his comment about Jody thinking she couldd call God to the stand. He's a smart ass, which may work against him.

Now, all of the clowns on HLN are claiming he found his pace and is destroying Jody by recanting all of her lies. JVM, and Vinny are even interpretiing her tears (LOL) and what they describe as her meak nature today. Only logical that tears may fall will when being questioin about the stab in the heart. She was not predisposed to kill nor a sadist.

JVN interjecting that the defense may call his Mormon friend, the gun enthuisiest with those assault type rifles. This is the guy who has been making the rounds claiming that Travis loved guns, but did not have one of his own. Defense plans to air the vid of Travis and his clan wailing aways with all of those military type assault rifes in the desert.

Another defense attorney now on HLN.. I like what he said about Martinez over proving that Jody is a lair, and he might get "Caught in the Weeds" by continuing on this tangent.
LA Guy

United States

#418 Feb 25, 2013
wheezy_1969 wrote:
Is the ultimate goal, for the defense, to save Jodi from the death penalty–nothing more and nothing less?
No, the ultimate goal would be to get a verdict of ‘Not Guilty’ from the jury which is seemingly feasible considering she is charged with premeditated first degree murder and burglary…that’s it! There are no lesser charges for the jury to consider, although they can suggest a lesser charge(s) which will most likely happen if they cannot convict her of first degree murder and burglary.
Defense tried to get the lesser charge of 2nd degree murder, back in 2011, but they denied it.
Thank's Wheezy for the info...I have been too lazy to research it as to how it was charged in Arizona.

In some jurisdictions, lesser offenses would be included in the Jury instructions.
LA Guy

United States

#419 Feb 25, 2013
Good Day wrote:
<quoted text>
==========
Her lawyer is a safe haven. TA wasn't. The DA isn't.
What is the mystery about her behvior on the stand?
Have you been watching the entire trial?
They had such a sick relationship for so long, it was doomed when TA began verbally, emotionally, and even sexual abusing her. It didn't happen overnight. Good grief.
Of course she wanted TA, and because of that she stayed beyond the point of no return.* He's not my type, but I could understand how JA was attracted to him.
Brilliant post!

All should understand the attraction of women to Travis. I posted on this previously. Some Jody's of this world have been attracted to me for similar reasons...he had some of my similarites...Once again, I could have handoed Jody and nothing bad would have happen.
Kaligirlsam

United States

#420 Feb 25, 2013
A killer probably shouldnt keep a journal.
Kaligirlsam

United States

#421 Feb 25, 2013
You think this is a reasonable doubt case? I think not. No proof of self defense other than her say so.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#422 Feb 25, 2013
Reasonable Doubt cover's a massive amount of possibilities....Did she express how rough he often was and what a temper he had? Think all she has to do is establish a grain of thought that she was in fear.....
Kaligirlsam

Ocala, FL

#423 Feb 25, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
Reasonable Doubt cover's a massive amount of possibilities....Did she express how rough he often was and what a temper he had? Think all she has to do is establish a grain of thought that she was in fear.....
Not quite that simple. Could she leave? Were there any other options? We'll never know because she can't remember!
Kaligirlsam

Ocala, FL

#424 Feb 25, 2013
Slayer wrote:
<quoted text>
Surely avoiding the death penalty is first priority.
<quoted text>
A 'not guilty' verdict is a lot to hope for, besides Travis and his family do deserve some level of justice. Not sure where the 'burglary' charge is from? Do you mean taking the gun that supposed to have been Travis's gun?
<quoted text>
Depends on what state of AZ allows jury to do.'LA Guy' seems to be convinced that the jury will be unable to reach a verdict; I'm hoping they reach a verdict even if it's a compromise -- which usually means a lesser charge that no one likes.
If the state could prove she stole her grandfathers gun and took it to shoot TA, then that prove premeditation. How can she explain there just happening to be a gun and knife in the bathroom right handy to use?
LA Guy

United States

#425 Feb 25, 2013
Kaligirlsam wrote:
You think this is a reasonable doubt case? I think not. No proof of self defense other than her say so.
Beyond a Reasonable Doubt is the burden upon the State.

Keep in mind the texts and audio tapes in evidence.
LA Guy

United States

#426 Feb 25, 2013
Martinez is a fool, now dwelling on her dating habits and adolescent crap in High School.

HLN's regular guest Joey Jackson, the sharp brother and defense Atty from NYC, even is now opining that Martinez is off focus on minutia at this point. I'm somewhat disappointed in him and the other brother (Atty) running HLN at this hour, who have in this case morphed into cheerleaders for the State's case. They know this case is Overcharged, but won't touch it.

Don't laugh, butI believe that Jody is sincere, in believing that TA is looking down on all of this. He would not approve of this cruel prosecution and the First Degree charges.

Granted, justice for the family and also punishment for Jody. Will say it again, the lowest degree Homicide in Arizona, ten years Max!

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