Reader Reaction Forum: Will concealed...

Reader Reaction Forum: Will concealed carry make Wisconsin safer

There are 41 comments on the Appleton Post-Crescent story from Jun 20, 2011, titled Reader Reaction Forum: Will concealed carry make Wisconsin safer. In it, Appleton Post-Crescent reports that:

REQUIRE TRAINING: There is no compelling evidence that concealed carry makes us safer or less safe.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Appleton Post-Crescent.

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David Grimsled

La Crosse, WI

#1 Jun 20, 2011
This question is not pertinent to the issue. We have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Bear arms means to carry them. The Constitution does not delve into the concept of concealed or open so the question is without merit.

However, since it was asked I will answer it in the wise words of author Robert A. Heinlein. Quote “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” Unquote.

Perhaps the next question should be “Does freedom of speech make Wisconsin safer?” After all, the pen is mightier than the sword (or gun).
Wolverine

Cumberland, MD

#2 Jun 20, 2011
YES! Criminals only fear citizens with guns.

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#3 Jun 21, 2011
Dave Allen wrote:
There is no compelling evidence that concealed carry makes us safer or less safe.
Does carrying a gun (or weapon) make you safe or safer ?

Does wearing a raincoat keep you drier (dryer)?

Does wearing a coat make you more warm ? Does sunlight warm the earth ?

Do eyeglasses increase your vision ?

Do cops carry a gun ? Do soldiers have guns ? Why ? Tradition, or because of offensive power or protection from offensive power ?

What does LOGIC mean to you ? It depends if you are a democrat/liberal or a republican/conservative. If you're a democrat/liberal, logic means feelings and or emotions. For others, logic means evidence, facts, and acceptable reasoning.

Because of Liberals we are sometimes forced to re-define (again) the obvious.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#4 Jun 21, 2011
Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>
What does LOGIC mean to you ? It depends if you are a democrat/liberal or a republican/conservative. If you're a democrat/liberal, logic means feelings and or emotions. For others, logic means evidence, facts, and acceptable reasoning.
Because of Liberals we are sometimes forced to re-define (again) the obvious.
Sorry... but you've got those description ass-backwards. Which group (republican or democrat) is willing to shred the constitution in order to have their religious BELIEFS taught in public schools as science and written into laws that govern everyone in this country? Lets see if you can use "evidence, facts, and acceptable reasoning" to back up what you claim
Wolverine

Cumberland, MD

#5 Jun 21, 2011
Liberalism & atheism are religious beliefs. Tell me that liberals do not advance their goals through the education system.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#6 Jun 21, 2011
Wolverine wrote:
Liberalism & atheism are religious beliefs. Tell me that liberals do not advance their goals through the education system.
How does a LACK of theistic belief equate to a religion? Does the fact that I do not collect stamps make it one of my hobbies?
Louiston

Omaha, NE

#7 Jun 21, 2011
TerryL wrote:
<quoted text>How does a LACK of theistic belief equate to a religion? Does the fact that I do not collect stamps make it one of my hobbies?
The religion of disbelief.

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#8 Jun 21, 2011
What does LOGIC mean to you ? It depends if you are a democrat/liberal or a republican/conservative. If you're a democrat/liberal, logic means feelings and or emotions. For others, logic means evidence, facts, and acceptable reasoning.
Because of Liberals we are sometimes forced to re-define (again) the obvious.
TerryL wrote:
Sorry... but you've got those description ass-backwards. Which group (republican or democrat) is willing to shred the constitution in order to have their religious BELIEFS taught in public schools as science and written into laws that govern everyone in this country? Lets see if you can use "evidence, facts, and acceptable reasoning" to back up what you claim
I've never heard they want it taught as Science. But they do want it in public schools, that's true. If it were the law, my kid would not be harmed from it, but because of gun control he is forced by govt to live unsafe or less safe.

My son and I are atheist.

Let's hear your interpretation of the 2nd amendment.

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#9 Jun 21, 2011
Wolverine wrote:
Liberalism & atheism are religious beliefs. Tell me that liberals do not advance their goals through the education system.
Atheism is not a religion.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#10 Jun 21, 2011
Louiston wrote:
<quoted text>The religion of disbelief.
Seriously!?
Wolverine

Cumberland, MD

#11 Jun 21, 2011
Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>Atheism is not a religion.
It is so. It has been defined as such by the courts.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#12 Jun 21, 2011
Tory II wrote:
What does LOGIC mean to you ? It depends if you are a democrat/liberal or a republican/conservative. If you're a democrat/liberal, logic means feelings and or emotions. For others, logic means evidence, facts, and acceptable reasoning.
Because of Liberals we are sometimes forced to re-define (again) the obvious.
<quoted text>I've never heard they want it taught as Science. But they do want it in public schools, that's true. If it were the law, my kid would not be harmed from it, but because of gun control he is forced by govt to live unsafe or less safe.
My son and I are atheist.
Let's hear your interpretation of the 2nd amendment.
From your post I, and most other atheists I know of, would not have assumed you to be an atheist. Your post smacks of neo-conservative propaganda. Pardon me if I misinterpreted.

Have you never hear of "Intelligent Design"?

I do not argue against a person's right to own arms. I was once a hunter myself but gave it up because I lost interest in it. I guess my feelings on the concealed carry thing is that if there are more people walking around carrying weapons there might be more of a chance that someone would get killed out of anger in any number of situations that would not occur if there were no weapons at hand. I see valid points in both sides of the argument. I do believe most people would be more polite (in general) if there was a chance that the person they were thinking about "getting into it with" might be carrying a gun. For every person that would carry a gun responsibly there is one that wouldn't hesitate to use theirs irresponsibly. I was in Texas a few years ago for work. I was sitting at the hotel bar and made a comment about George Bush (not a comment of praise). One guy sitting near by got up, walked over, made sure I saw the holster on his hip and dared me to say something else disparaging against Bush. His buddy stepped in and pulled him away while apologizing for his drunk friend. I got the point and left the bar. People like THAT should never be allowed to carry a gun... but how do you separate the nut-jobs form the responsible??

(Sorry if this was a bit rambling... I'm at work and don't really have the time to proof read it)

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#13 Jun 21, 2011
Wolverine wrote:
<quoted text>It is so. It has been defined as such by the courts.
LOL! yeah.... in a case where a prisoner was denied the right to form a group of like minded individuals, akin to the numerous religious groups that were allowed by the prison, because he was an atheist! The ruling was made in order to grant equal rights of assembly to everyone... not just the religious.
Wolverine

Cumberland, MD

#14 Jun 21, 2011
TerryL wrote:
<quoted text>LOL! yeah.... in a case where a prisoner was denied the right to form a group of like minded individuals, akin to the numerous religious groups that were allowed by the prison, because he was an atheist! The ruling was made in order to grant equal rights of assembly to everyone... not just the religious.
You can believe it or not. Atheism is a religion. And smarter people than you have agreed that it is so.

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#15 Jun 21, 2011
Tory II wrote:
Atheism is not a religion.
I believe in nothing. I don't believe in supernaturalism, god or gods or any god. Don't believe in life after death, heaven, devil, ghosts, witches, mind, spirit, nothing. I worship nothing. I'm a non-believer.

When I die, my body becomes a corpse, I cease to exist in any form except a dead carcass.

Anyone who says atheism is a religion is a liar.

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#16 Jun 21, 2011
TerryL wrote:
<quoted text>From your post I, and most other atheists I know of, would not have assumed you to be an atheist. Your post smacks of neo-conservative propaganda. Pardon me if I misinterpreted.
Have you never hear of "Intelligent Design"?
I do not argue against a person's right to own arms. I was once a hunter myself but gave it up because I lost interest in it. I guess my feelings on the concealed carry thing is that if there are more people walking around carrying weapons there might be more of a chance that someone would get killed out of anger in any number of situations that would not occur if there were no weapons at hand. I see valid points in both sides of the argument. I do believe most people would be more polite (in general) if there was a chance that the person they were thinking about "getting into it with" might be carrying a gun. For every person that would carry a gun responsibly there is one that wouldn't hesitate to use theirs irresponsibly. I was in Texas a few years ago for work. I was sitting at the hotel bar and made a comment about George Bush (not a comment of praise). One guy sitting near by got up, walked over, made sure I saw the holster on his hip and dared me to say something else disparaging against Bush. His buddy stepped in and pulled him away while apologizing for his drunk friend. I got the point and left the bar. People like THAT should never be allowed to carry a gun... but how do you separate the nut-jobs form the responsible??
(Sorry if this was a bit rambling... I'm at work and don't really have the time to proof read it)
I didn't know they forced Intelligent Design to be taught as a science.

I've always been atheist. The existence of religion is a sign of a free society. PEOPLE love to believe in a religion, especially christianity because of the story in the bible.

I'm not a neocon. Bush is a butcher. I've always opposed the Iraq invasion and the prolonged Afghanistan war. Govt is always our worst enemy. I'm a Constitutionist, but many of the people I respect the most are believers (but not the pig Wolverine).
TerryL wrote:
< For every person that would carry a gun responsibly there is one that wouldn't hesitate to use theirs irresponsibly. I was in Texas a few years ago for work. I was sitting at the hotel bar and made a comment about George Bush (not a comment of praise). One guy sitting near by got up, walked over, made sure I saw the holster on his hip and dared me to say something else disparaging against Bush. His buddy stepped in and pulled him away while apologizing for his drunk friend. I got the point and left the bar. People like THAT should never be allowed to carry a gun... but how do you separate the nut-jobs form the responsible??
Where was your gun, that was the reason a armed drunk intimidated you. More importantly, most of us know, most of the time (right or wrong) we must walk away from trouble. Better to be RIGHT and alive than to be RIGHT and dead (or in jail over a petty matter).

And there's nothing wrong (immoral) for shooting an armed drunk for getting too close.
concerned

Saint Albans, WV

#17 Jun 21, 2011
David Grimsled wrote:
This question is not pertinent to the issue. We have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Bear arms means to carry them. The Constitution does not delve into the concept of concealed or open so the question is without merit.
However, since it was asked I will answer it in the wise words of author Robert A. Heinlein. Quote “An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” Unquote.
Perhaps the next question should be “Does freedom of speech make Wisconsin safer?” After all, the pen is mightier than the sword (or gun).
If everyone had the right to carry concealed then criminals would think twice before causing trouble
concerned

Saint Albans, WV

#18 Jun 21, 2011
Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>Does carrying a gun (or weapon) make you safe or safer ?
Does wearing a raincoat keep you drier (dryer)?
Does wearing a coat make you more warm ? Does sunlight warm the earth ?
Do eyeglasses increase your vision ?
Do cops carry a gun ? Do soldiers have guns ? Why ? Tradition, or because of offensive power or protection from offensive power ?
What does LOGIC mean to you ? It depends if you are a democrat/liberal or a republican/conservative. If you're a democrat/liberal, logic means feelings and or emotions. For others, logic means evidence, facts, and acceptable reasoning.
Because of Liberals we are sometimes forced to re-define (again) the obvious.
There is a little town in Texas where everyone has the right to have and carry a gun and they are the town with the lowest crime rate so therre is your proofin

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#19 Jun 21, 2011
Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't know they forced Intelligent Design to be taught as a science.
I've always been atheist. The existence of religion is a sign of a free society. PEOPLE love to believe in a religion, especially christianity because of the story in the bible.
I'm not a neocon. Bush is a butcher. I've always opposed the Iraq invasion and the prolonged Afghanistan war. Govt is always our worst enemy. I'm a Constitutionist, but many of the people I respect the most are believers (but not the pig Wolverine).
<quoted text>Where was your gun, that was the reason a armed drunk intimidated you. More importantly, most of us know, most of the time (right or wrong) we must walk away from trouble. Better to be RIGHT and alive than to be RIGHT and dead (or in jail over a petty matter).
And there's nothing wrong (immoral) for shooting an armed drunk for getting too close.
I didn't say it was forced to be taught... but that is their (fundamental christians) goal. They want it taught as a competing scientific theory of the Theory of Evolution. Google "Kitzmiller v. Dover". With the number of states trying to pass "teach the controversy" legislation, cases like the one I mentioned will not be the last. The only controversy is the one fundamental christians see as an affront to their religious beliefs.
Wolverine

Cumberland, MD

#20 Jun 21, 2011
Tory II wrote:
<quoted text>I believe in nothing. I don't believe in supernaturalism, god or gods or any god. Don't believe in life after death, heaven, devil, ghosts, witches, mind, spirit, nothing. I worship nothing. I'm a non-believer.
When I die, my body becomes a corpse, I cease to exist in any form except a dead carcass.
Anyone who says atheism is a religion is a liar.
Prove it. Atheism is a religion, and it has been stated by people a whole helluva lot smarter than you.

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